All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

[buddyboy]

Originally Posted by GP

People let wins go to their head, hell all of us let wins go to our head until the Patriots smacked our asses on MNF.

Then, SOME of us figured "Uh oh. Something doesn't compute here...hmmm...maybe just an off game?"

Then we completely blew two straight chances at HFA...and some MORE of us thought, "Eek. OK, this team has gone stagnant."

Now we get a win in a WILD CARD round, vs a team who (drum roll, please...) crumbled under the pressure, and our QB managed fairly well--since that's what he is, a manager--and our ground game and defense did well for a change.

All that does NOT instill newfound confidence in me, not with who we're playing next. We have to hope N.E. snoozes on us (something I said prior to our MNF game vs them, I might add).

And even then, Tom will roar back and probably beat us still.

We're just not there yet.

This is completely fair.

Schaub didn't play lights out, I don't think anyone will claim that. Claiming the Texans won DESPITE Schaub because our run game was rolling and our defense was playing well is ludicrous; you're penalizing someone for something because other aspects made it unnecessary.

Facts:

Schaub will need to play better to beat the Patriots. We know he is CAPABLE of that play, but he needs to find that play again, because he has not shown it as of late.

The TEAM itself also needs to elevate its play. This cannot be a repeat of 21-0 after three possessions.

Tom Brady and the Patriots are monsters in the playoffs and the Texans are severe underdogs; we CAN win, likely WON'T win.

[Premier]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

I dont know what changed from early in the year when he was chunking bombs like he did in Denver.

Thin air.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

As I had posted earlier, Walter already got his salary reduced to $2M sometimes in Mid March (his cap hit is $3M, I believe.)

Yes, 3 million in savings this year at the very least, but he is on the books for 4.5 million 2013, so that's the savings for 2013 and beyond. None of it is guaranteed, or would have been, had he been cut at the start of free agency in 2012. The point being that there is more money available in the future for salary escalation if necessary, so if the first year is 15.25 million, it's entirely possible to go higher in future years to make the total value higher.

Adding the cap hits of Schaub and Walter together (per Spotrac), we come up with $15.2M.

That's $2.8M short of the $18M.

Ok, that's exactly what I said, and up thread I showed other savings we could have used to go after him. I also said that Manning may have been interested in taking less money if he thought we were a better situation than Denver, I never said anything about matching the offer dollar for dollar.

What does that mean?
Either:

1. Manning has to agreed to sign for $2.8M less for us to stay at the same cap number (that we must) and Walter is gone while we don't have any one on the roster that can do the things he was asked for besides catching the ball.
The only guy we had at that time was Jean who was on IR for the entire 2011, and therefore had never practiced those blocks and routes that Walter runs.
(I never thought for a moment that they can cut Walter. Next year, they will a possibility, if they've been having Jean and Posey learning to do those things all this time.) Do you think that Peyton would leave $2.8M on the table?

I think 2.8 million is the least of Peyton's worries. I think he's interested in rings, not a couple million here and there. His endorsement deals certainly bring in some significant money, but I would be surprised if that small amount of money was a deal breaker.

2. Keeping Walter and cut several players to make the cap.
Take a look at the cap hits, who and how many players can the Texans cut (replacing them with minimum-salary players) to make it work?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/

I don't think it's feasible.

I stated other options for saving capspace upthread. Cut Winston and Jacoby, and declare them June 1st cuts. Keeping Demeco would have saved us at least a million or two, and it would have reduced the dead money incurred if he was traded in 2013. He would have taken over for Cushing instead of the hodgepodge of ILBs we have been using. Could have kept Reed at OLB, which may have improved our pass rush this season. Restructure JJo and Antonio Smith for sure. There's always money to be moved around if needed, saying it was not possible is just asinine though. Where there's a will, there's a way, but there was no will with the Texans.

The thing I really don't like about your opinion on this is that it seems you saying you would rather have Schaub+Walter over Peyton Manning (I could interpreting you wrong here). I couldn't care less if Walter was gone in this scenario because anything lost in the run blocking department would be outweighed by everything gained in the passing game with Manning at the helm. If the team is forcing the defense to play nickle and dime sets constantly, then the run game will greatly benefit from the different personnel, and IMO moreso than one WR who occasionally gets a block down field. AJ+OD+Foster as the top 3 receivers is fine with me if I have Manning at QB. All you need is a speedy outside receiver to stretch the defense (could be Martin) and I think you have a recipe for success.

[dalemurphy]

Peyton Manning's career playoff record = 9 wins 10 losses.

Manning lost his 1st three playoff games. Here are the number of points the Colts scored in those games:

16
17
0


Schaub's playoff record 1 win 0 losses

Points scored

19

Can people chill out a little bit, please!

[Dread-Head]

To paraphrase David Letterman: "Instead of the 'Eye of the Tiger' [he] has the dull stare of a dairy cow."

[76Texan]

Dutch, my thought is that each team is built differently.

Jacoby was already long gone.
We cut Winston to use the money somewhere else.

We don't know what was going with Demeco; he might have been the one who asked for the trade behind closed doors.

I don't prefer Walter, but we need to have a replacement for him in place.
At the time, we didn't.

There were too many variables that suggest against such a move as to bring Peyton in.

It's like you have to scratch your 3-5 year plan for an overhaul.
I don't know if it was impossible (we don't know for sure one way or another) but the big picture, to me, slants toward not-doable, especially considering the near future (the next two years or so).

[Premier]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Peyton Manning's career playoff record = 9 wins 10 losses.

Manning lost his 1st three playoff games. Here are the number of points the Colts scored in those games:

16
17
0


Schaub's playoff record 1 win 0 losses

Points scored

19

Can people chill out a little bit, please!

Peyton was a 2nd year player in his first playoff game and lost to the eventual AFC Champs, it was also a division round game, not a wild card game against some scrub team.. i dont see the point of making this comparison.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Premier

Peyton was a rookie in his first playoff game and lost to the eventual AFC Champs.. i dont see the point of making this comparison.

Peyton lost in the first round of the play-offs seven (7) times.

[Premier]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Peyton lost in the first round of the play-offs seven (7) times.

for all his greatness he certainly has underachieved in the playoffs, but those might have been the first games, but how many were division round games vs wild card games... division rounds are much tougher opponents than wild card teams.. seeing his record is quite depressing actually, this is the guy that has undeniably owned the texans franchise..

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Peyton lost in the first round of the play-offs seven (7) times.

What don't you understand about he was a 2nd year player!!!!

He was a rookie for 7 years.


gawd...

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Premier

for all his greatness he certainly has underachieved in the playoffs, but those might have been the first games, but how many were division round games vs wild card games... division rounds are much tougher opponents than wild card teams.. seeing his record is quite depressing actually, this is the guy that has undeniably owned the texans franchise..

In his second year (1999), the Colts won the division and got a bye.
They lost to the Wildcard winner Titans.

The next year, he lost the Wild Card Game to the Dolphins.

Two years later, in 2002, he lost another WC game, getting blanked 0-41 by the Jets.

In 05, he lost the divisional round to the Steelers.

In 07, he lost the divisional round to the Chargers.

In 08, the Colts were 12-4 when he lost the Wild Card Game to the 8-8 Chargers.

In 2010, he lost the Wild Card Game to the Jets by the score 16-17

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

What don't you understand about he was a 2nd year player!!!!

He was a rookie for 7 years.


gawd...

STUPID! To even compare the two is rediculous. At least Peyton was good enough to take his team to the playoffs every year he played except two. A lot of those teams were horrible. Unbelievable. You stat mongers are all the same.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by mussop

STUPID! To even compare the two is rediculous. At least Peyton was good enough to take his team to the playoffs every year he played except two. A lot of those teams were horrible. Unbelievable. You stat mongers are all the same.

It's not my comparison. The anti-Schaub crowd are the ones that are comparing Schaub to Manning.

I've never seen such outrage over a playoff victory. Schaub completed 75% of his passes for over 250 yards... He screwed up and threw a pick. The offense bogged down in the red zone. Mediocre game by a guy who has had a poor last month after playing great the first 10 games of the year.

Most astounding: Some of you are actually criticizing his performance this weekend against New England... The one he hasn't played yet!! If he plays poorly and they lose, it is your right to complain. I don't think, however, it is fair to hate him simply because you lack confidence in him. That is quite narcissistic.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by mussop

STUPID! To even compare the two is rediculous. At least Peyton was good enough to take his team to the playoffs every year he played except two. A lot of those teams were horrible. Unbelievable. You stat mongers are all the same.

And all this time I thought we were discussing about QBs who can lead his team deep into the play-offs and not to lose the first game.

How stupid of me!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by mussop

STUPID! To even compare the two is rediculous. At least Peyton was good enough to take his team to the playoffs every year he played except two. A lot of those teams were horrible. Unbelievable. You stat mongers are all the same.

Stupid..... ?

I think the point was that a great QB like Peyton was one & done in his first 7 play-off appearances. He eventually went on to win a Super Bowl.

So it shouldn't be too far fetched to believe that Schaub can win a Super Bowl.

It's either we use stats, or we use your eye. I can't use your eye, so I'll have to settle for stats.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Stupid..... ?

I think the point was that a great QB like Peyton was one & done in his first 7 play-off appearances. He eventually went on to win a Super Bowl.

So it shouldn't be too far fetched to believe that Schaub can win a Super Bowl.

It's either we use stats, or we use your eye. I can't use your eye, so I'll have to settle for stats.

It wasn't his first 7 playoffs, it was just 7 of his 11 playoff appearances have ended with one-and-done. Most notably in 2010 when his vaunted offense put up all of 16 points on the Jets at home.

[Premier]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Stupid..... ?

I think the point was that a great QB like Peyton was one & done in his first 7 play-off appearances. He eventually went on to win a Super Bowl.

So it shouldn't be too far fetched to believe that Schaub can win a Super Bowl.

It's either we use stats, or we use your eye. I can't use your eye, so I'll have to settle for stats.

i still dont understand this.. matt schuab isnt the first qb to win his first playoff game.. peyton manning lost his first 3 playoff games not his first 7.. and the guy was 23, not 31... still hadn't come close to his peak, matt has already surpassed his peak and is on the backside of his career..

peyton won the SB in his 8th season and already had 9 playoff games under his belt before his super bowl run in 2006.. its not that hard of a concept to understand that teams usually fail before they eventually win it all.. you have to build up some experience, schaub just popped his playoff cherry..

if were tossing around playoff records, mark sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs, much better winning% than peyton..

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Premier

i still dont understand this.. matt schuab isnt the first qb to win his first playoff game.. peyton manning lost his first 3 playoff games not his first 7.. and the guy was 23, not 31... still hadn't come close to his peak, matt has already surpassed his peak and is on the backside of his career..

peyton won the SB in his 8th season and already had 9 playoff games under his belt before his super bowl run in 2006.. its not that hard of a concept to understand that teams usually fail before they eventually win it all.. you have to build up some experience, schaub just popped his playoff cherry..

if were tossing around playoff records, mark sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs.. he must have won a superbowl already...

It took some kicking in the family jewelry box to pop that cherry!

[klockWork]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

It's not my comparison. The anti-Schaub crowd are the ones that are comparing Schaub to Manning.

I've never seen such outrage over a playoff victory. Schaub completed 75% of his passes for over 250 yards... He screwed up and threw a pick. The offense bogged down in the red zone. Mediocre game by a guy who has had a poor last month after playing great the first 10 games of the year.

Most astounding: Some of you are actually criticizing his performance this weekend against New England... The one he hasn't played yet!! If he plays poorly and they lose, it is your right to complain. I don't think, however, it is fair to hate him simply because you lack confidence in him. That is quite narcissistic.

The most important position in football is undeniably the QB. When our starting QB still hasn't show any signs of improvement in his first PA game is a legitimate reason for an outrage.

You called it a mediocre game by Schaub. I go as far as calling it his worst game of the season. Think about this:
The five most important elements in aiding a QB on a successful game is
1) Protection
2) Good running game
3) Defense creating three and outs from the opposing offense
4) Good starting field position
5) Home crowd support

Schaub has ALL that going for him and yet STILL manage 1 TD drive!
In the NFL when an offense only score 1 TD that is a FAILED.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by klockWork

The most important position in football is undeniably the QB. When our starting QB still hasn't show any signs of improvement in his first PA game is a legitimate reason for an outrage.

You called it a mediocre game by Schaub. I go as far as calling it his worst game of the season. Think about this:
The five most important elements in aiding a QB on a successful game is
1) Protection
2) Good running game
3) Defense creating three and outs from the opposing offense
4) Good starting field position
5) Home crowd support

Schaub has ALL that going for him and yet STILL manage 1 TD drive!
In the NFL when an offense only score 1 TD that is a FAILED.

I disagree about the protection. I thought it was the game plan to get rid of the ball quickly. Seldom, if ever, outside of play-action, did Schaub ever take a 7 step drop...