All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Not to mention the FS was in play to intercept...we also dont know schaub's read progression.

Sure we do! Take a quik Look downfield if the primary WR isnt wide open dump the ball off to the check off several yards short of the first down.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Dutch - I am sorry but it is more than coming up with what could have been done to match 1st year salaries. The Texans would have had to clear 20% of their cap space for the next 5 years.

No way, the only year in question would have been 2012. Without Schaubs extension, and the release of Walter, it's easy to clear 15-17 million for 2013 and beyond. He would have taken a bit less money with us, but he might have done it if he thought he was on a better team.

Not that it really matters since this is all what could have been, but it's fun to think about.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

No way, the only year in question would have been 2012. Without Schaubs extension, and the release of Walter, it's easy to clear 15-17 million for 2013 and beyond. He would have taken a bit less money with us, but he might have done it if he thought he was on a better team.

Not that it really matters since this is all what could have been, but it's fun to think about.

I don't understand this.
Manning's salary and cap hit is $18M this year and $20M the next 2 years.

Even if we release Walter, we still don't have enough money for salary (not even counting that we will need to release other players as well to accomodate for Peyton's cap hit.)

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr. Texan

when that happens, then we can go all in on trying to find that elite qb.

We don't need an elite QB. NO ONE HAS SAID WE DO! Just because a QB is better than Schaub doesn't mean they are anywhere near elite status.

So according to you we should waste all the good talent we have hoping its good enough to carry Schaub to a Super Bowl? You must hate Andre Johnson.

Show me where anyone is saying we need to replace Schaub RIGHT NOW.

Also who gives a rats ass about stats or salary. Like most of your combacks Neither prove anything. If Schaub was half as good as some of you guys think we wouldn't be so pathetic in the red zone.

The formula for playing a Schaub led offense is simple. Give him the underneath stuff and he'll eat it up. Then kill the receiver after the catch. Get any pressure on him on third and long and he'll go safety valve everytime.

Cinci played the right strategy today they just didn't have the right players to make it work. We abused Mauluga (sp) who is horrible in pass coverage. Of course once we got down to the red zone that didn't matter as much and they basically shut us down.

[Mr. Texan]

Originally Posted by mussop

If Schaub was half as good as some of you guys think we wouldn't be so pathetic in the red zone.

and if schaub was as garbage as some of you try to say he is we wouldn't be 12-4 with a playoff win.

[Mr. Texan]

i'm still waiting on the suggestions on available free agent qb's and upcoming college qb prospects that no one has mentioned yet.

i've already said i'm open to finding a successor to schaub.

names some names. i'm talking about a clear upgrade not a lateral move that won't make the texans significantly better.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by mussop

Sure we do! Take a quik Look downfield if the primary WR isnt wide open dump the ball off to the check off several yards short of the first down.

Classic example of losing yourself into irrational hatred. Some of you folks want Kubiak fired and Gruden brought in. Cool, just a few weeks ago Gruden was breaking down plays on how well Schaub looked off defenders and made his progressions. Frankly I thought he was too effusive at the time. Now I think you poo flingers are ridiculous.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr. Texan

i'm still waiting on the suggestions on available free agent qb's and upcoming college qb prospects that no one has mentioned yet.

i've already said i'm open to finding a successor to schaub.

names some names. i'm talking about a clear upgrade not a lateral move that won't make the texans significantly better.

Oh here you go with this crap again. As if no one is allowed to point out Schaubs obvious (to anyone with a clue) flaws unless they suggest a replacent for him. How ignorant can you be? Players are replaced all the time. You don't have to have a specific player in mind to know that one needs to be found.

We simply need to keep our eyes and ears open. Keep all options open and be a little proactive in the market. If there are no good value guys out there currently that could at least compete with Schaub then game plan for the draft.

What's that, there's no good QB's in this draft? Then trade away this years first for a first next year that way The following year we have 2 first round picks to barter with.

That's all anyone that is knocking Schaub is saying. He's not the guy that is going to take us where we want to go. The sooner that is realized the sooner we can start planning to do something about it. YOU are the only one with the idea that it needs to be done now.

[Mr. Texan]

yet i've consistently said i'm open to grooming a qb to take over for schaub (and a WR to take over for AJ once he slows down) in the future and you completely gloss over that.

you're arguing something i've already agreed with.

if you could read, i was talking to someone who wanted to just dump schaub in start over with an unproven rookie

[mussop]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Classic example pf losing yourself into irrational hatred. Some of you folks want Kubiak fired and Gruden brought in. Cool, just a few weeks ago Gruden was breaking down plays on how well Schaub looked off defenders and made his progressions. Frankly I thought he was too effusive at the time. Now I think you poo flingers are ridiculous.

I'm not a Kubiak supporter but I think he is capable of winning a Super Bowl with this team if it had a better QB. problem is he refuses to give up on people once he gets close to them. We seen it with his d coordinators. We are seeing it now with his special teams coach and his QB. it's going to be his downfall. It's easy to see coming.

Just because I don't believe in him doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. It's just painfully obvious that he doesn't have the managerial qualities it takes to be the man. You have to be able to put aside you personal feelings for players and coaches and do what's best for the team. If he could do that I believe he is good enough despite his shortcomings as a head coach to win a Super Bowl.

By the way, Gruden has never been someone I would want here. Can't stand him.

P.S. I thought you were going to stay out of our circle jerk. Just couldn't stay away huh?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr. Texan

if you could read, i was talking to someone who wanted to just dump schaub in start over with an unproven rookie

No you weren't that has been your mantra from the start. "If you are going to complain about him then tell us who to replace him with". Bla bla bla!!!!!!

Show me some post that suggest we replace Matt schab immediately with a draft choice next year or even a free agent.

[Mr. Texan]

Originally Posted by mussop

Show me some post that suggest we replace Matt schab immediately with a draft choice next year or even a free agent.

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Schaub supporters argue that the team can win with him and that the team shouldn't simply dump him and start over with "X".

Originally Posted by Premier

whose to say "X" wont be better just because of an unfamiliarity with the system... i get the whole schaub knows the system the best thing, great, he'll make a great coach one day and continue the shanny offense legacy in the future.. sticking with schaub will keep the texans on a treadmill. yates came in as unprepared as any potential replacement and did a damn good job winning a playoff game in the process.

there you go.

pretty much saying start over with another qb.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Mr. Texan

there you go.

pretty much saying start over with another qb.

And you say I can't read. Your comprehension skills are lacking my friend. First off that dale m post is stating the same bs argument that you are. That anyone dogging Schaub is saying they want him replaced now. And just like your pathetic argument it's not true.

The second post you so proudly threw out also in no way suggest that Schaub needs to be replaced RIGHT NOW or with a rookie next year. It's all in your little head. May I suggest some remedial comprehension classes at a local jr college. Could do you a world of good.

[Mr. Texan]

Is your name Premier? I could have sworn that I was in a discussion with him not you.

You quoted something and started bleeding out of your vagina over something that wasn't even directed towards you.

[klockWork]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The INT was a bad throw, that's for sure.

However, I remember somebody thought Schaub could have gone to Walter deeper. I say no can do. If Schaub held up and waited for Walter to make the cut, a DT would have been right on him from the back side (splitting Newton and Foster.)

Who do you see touching Schaub in that screen shot? Walter is into his cut, left cb broke into AJ leaving the left field expose, safety in the middle still back pedaling. If the pass is thrown at that point and toward the sideline it would've been a 20+ gain out of bounds instead of a pick 6. Even if he chooses not to throw there its inexplicable to throw to Casey when the line gave more than enough time to weigh his option. Throw it away at least.

http://imageshack.us/a/img99/1356/schaubint.png

Bottom line of that play is Schaub made a panick throw in a clean pocket. The dude have absolutely zero pocket-awareness. That's my biggest gripe about this guy. It's not his below average arm, it's not his lack of mobility, it's not his leadership skill. It's about him failing to remain poise and making that extra read in coverage.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The INT was a bad throw, that's for sure.

However, I remember somebody thought Schaub could have gone to Walter deeper. I say no can do. If Schaub held up and waited for Walter to make the cut, a DT would have been right on him from the back side (splitting Newton and Foster.)

Dunno man i watched the replay a few times and Walter was wide open well before Schaub threw the ball, to me it didnt appear he even looked down field instead it looked like he staired down Casey the entire play.

Whats done is done, but Schaub has become the old version of David carr after our o-line had him shell shocked. Check down, check down, check down. Seems it has been this way for a while this season now. I dont know what changed from early in the year when he was chunking bombs like he did in Denver.

Its like he lost all confidence.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I don't understand this.
Manning's salary and cap hit is $18M this year and $20M the next 2 years.

Even if we release Walter, we still don't have enough money for salary (not even counting that we will need to release other players as well to accomodate for Peyton's cap hit.)

I'm just going off memory here for Schaub's 2012 cap number pre-extension, but iirc he had 7.2 million in non-guaranteed salary and a little left over signing bonus (1.25 million I think). Cutting/Trading him in 2012 would have saved that much, and he obviously would have never gotten an extension. His 2013 projected cap hit will be 10.75 million, Walters is 4.5 million. That's 15.25 million alone in free money for 2013 and beyond, which IMHO is enough to make a legitimate run at Peyton Manning and pay him for years to come. Not only that, but Schaub actually restructured the remainder of his deal into his new extension, which increased his 2012 cap hit by about 2 million. So there's some more change to help go after Manning.

I don't think we would have offered the same amount per year as Denver, but we could have been competitive (16-18 million per year range). By the way, Schaub's last two years of his current deal are projected to be 17 and 19 million cap hits.

Bottom line, it was completely feasible if there was a significant effort to get Manning. Schaub could have been kept on the roster while they made a play for Peyton, and if it didn't work out, then you still have a QB. But it's clear the organization wasn't interested in Manning, so it's all water under the bridge.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

I dont know what changed from early in the year when he was chunking bombs like he did in Denver.

Its like he lost all confidence.

We all want Kubiak to be "fiery" right? It's been said that he is "fiery" in the locker room, he's just not going to berate his players on TV, during the game.

Imagine that Kubiak rode up & down Schaub after that New England game, in the locker room, or in the film room. Tore him a new one, not for throwing the INT, but for not seeing the wide open Arian Foster with nothing but green between him & the end-zone.

So now you have Matt Schaub second guessing himself. He thinks twice about that bomb he threw to Andre that was underthrown & Andre had to fight off the defender for the ball.

He second guesses himself & he underthrows that ball to Casey, allowing Vonte Davis to undercut him.

He starts launching the balls over the top, overthrowing everybody (they obviously don't practice this). He's thrown more INTs since that game than he has all year... I think. At least he's thrown more INTs in that 4 game period than he has in any 4 game period this year.

That interception on the Casey throw Saturday, again he's second guessing himself & threw it late. He's not trusting what he sees anymore, he's looking for alternatives & his decisions are coming a lot slower.

Just a theory.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

I'm just going off memory here for Schaub's 2012 cap number pre-extension, but iirc he had 7.2 million in non-guaranteed salary and a little left over signing bonus (1.25 million I think). Cutting/Trading him in 2012 would have saved that much, and he obviously would have never gotten an extension. His 2013 projected cap hit will be 10.75 million, Walters is 4.5 million. That's 15.25 million alone in free money for 2013 and beyond, which IMHO is enough to make a legitimate run at Peyton Manning and pay him for years to come. Not only that, but Schaub actually restructured the remainder of his deal into his new extension, which increased his 2012 cap hit by about 2 million. So there's some more change to help go after Manning.

I don't think we would have offered the same amount per year as Denver, but we could have been competitive (16-18 million per year range). By the way, Schaub's last two years of his current deal are projected to be 17 and 19 million cap hits.

Bottom line, it was completely feasible if there was a significant effort to get Manning. Schaub could have been kept on the roster while they made a play for Peyton, and if it didn't work out, then you still have a QB. But it's clear the organization wasn't interested in Manning, so it's all water under the bridge.

As I had posted earlier, Walter already got his salary reduced to $2M sometimes in Mid March (his cap hit is $3M, I believe.)

Adding the cap hits of Schaub and Walter together (per Spotrac), we come up with $15.2M.

That's $2.8M short of the $18M.

What does that mean?
Either:

1. Manning has to agreed to sign for $2.8M less for us to stay at the same cap number (that we must) and Walter is gone while we don't have any one on the roster that can do the things he was asked for besides catching the ball.
The only guy we had at that time was Jean who was on IR for the entire 2011, and therefore had never practiced those blocks and routes that Walter runs.
(I never thought for a moment that they can cut Walter. Next year, they will a possibility, if they've been having Jean and Posey learning to do those things all this time.) Do you think that Peyton would leave $2.8M on the table?

2. Keeping Walter and cut several players to make the cap.
Take a look at the cap hits, who and how many players can the Texans cut (replacing them with minimum-salary players) to make it work?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/

I don't think it's feasible.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Dunno man i watched the replay a few times and Walter was wide open well before Schaub threw the ball, to me it didnt appear he even looked down field instead it looked like he staired down Casey the entire play.

Whats done is done, but Schaub has become the old version of David carr after our o-line had him shell shocked. Check down, check down, check down. Seems it has been this way for a while this season now. I dont know what changed from early in the year when he was chunking bombs like he did in Denver.

Its like he lost all confidence.

First, I think somebody posted about Ron Jaworski somewhere.

I read (ESPN, I think) that Jaws had Schaub at #9 in his final QB ranking.

Then on Mike $ Mike, when Jaws talked with them about the 4 Wild Card games, he was asked about what he saw on tapes with Schaub.
He responded that he saw a QB that started to have his confidence back again.

Now, back to that INT. We already agreed that it was a bad throw.
We're only trying to see if we can figure out what happened on that play.

On the offensive side, the Texans kept the TE and the RB back to block.
On the left side, we were running a three-level pattern.
Walter ran a corner route deep; AJ ran a stop route in the middle, and Casey ran a quick out route to the flat at the lowest level.

What I think Schaub saw at the outset is a 4-Man pass rush.
The LBs all dropped back immediately.
It figures to be cover 2 and 5 zone under.

In that case, he expected that the RCB Hall to go back to his landmark first before reacting back to Casey.

A quick throw there should do the trick; he didn't expect that Hall would jump the route since it was not supposed to be man coverage.
If it was man coverage, Hall would have ran with AJ while one of the LBs would jump out on Casey.

IMHO, it was a good play by Hall.
Schaub, reading zone, can't wait for the CB to find his landmark.