What Constitutes a QB Fumble???

[DocBar]

Two weeks in a row, the Texans have been hosed by the ref's on, to me at least, OBVIOUS sack/fumbles. Both times, the call was an incomplete pass. How does a defender knocking a QB's arm forward (when it was still going backwards before contact in the replays) because he hit him make it an incomplete pass?

The call in Indy was game changing. We would've had the ball in their territory in a very close game. The call today didn't hurt us, but what if Cincy had scored a TD on that drive?

Have these been terrible calls or do I not fully understand the rules? I had to watch todays game on a computer with no sound, so I didn't get the "official ruling".

[gtexan02]

Inthought today's was the right call but I thought last weeks was atrocious.

[JCTexan]

Originally Posted by gtexan02

Inthought today's was the right call but I thought last weeks was atrocious.

I agree. This week's call looked to be the right one. Last week's call was just terrible.

[NCTexan]

Playing off this, if they had ruled it a fumble what would of happened since it was blown dead?

[DocBar]

I thought todays call was horrible. Dalton"s arm was clearly still going backwards when he was hit by Barwin.

[NitroGSXR]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I thought todays call was horrible. Dalton"s arm was clearly still going backwards when he was hit by Barwin.

He still had control of the ball though. I thought Dalton saved one there with his hand strength.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by NitroGSXR

He still had control of the ball though. I thought Dalton saved one there with his hand strength.

He had control until Barwin hit his arm! That means fumble.

[Big Lou]

A fumble is when any team other than the Texans knock the ball out of the quarterbacks hands.

[keyser]

Originally Posted by DocBar

Two weeks in a row, the Texans have been hosed by the ref's on, to me at least, OBVIOUS sack/fumbles. Both times, the call was an incomplete pass. How does a defender knocking a QB's arm forward (when it was still going backwards before contact in the replays) because he hit him make it an incomplete pass?

Doc, I don't know the precise rule, but the general thing I understand is that if the arm is moving forward, for whatever reason, before the ball is let loose, then it is considered a pass. They seem to me to apply this rule even when something "should" be a fumble - i.e. giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to the QB. In today's game, the arm started moving forward before the ball came loose, so it was ruled a pass - I was not at all surprised about the ruling, even if it "should" have been a fumble. I don't remember the details of last week's one well enough, though.

I never saw a replay of the whole thing, but did the ball actually move forward in today's game? It wasn't a lateral was it? I kind of doubt it, but I was hoping for a full replay and they never showed it after the challenge, just lots of replays of the ball coming out initially. I actually thought NBC's broadcast today was subpar, with lots of missed chances for replays, odd angles, etc., which was very unexpected considering this was a playoff game.

[eriadoc]

Well, as I see it, if the QB has the strength to hold on to the ball and the ball goes forward, it's an incomplete pass. If the QB holds on and re-cocks his arm, it's an incomplete pass no matter where the ball goes.

The rules committee really need to look at that tuck rule.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by keyser

Doc, I don't know the precise rule, but the general thing I understand is that if the arm is moving forward, for whatever reason, before the ball is let loose, then it is considered a pass. They seem to me to apply this rule even when something "should" be a fumble - i.e. giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to the QB. In today's game, the arm started moving forward before the ball came loose, so it was ruled a pass - I was not at all surprised about the ruling, even if it "should" have been a fumble. I don't remember the details of last week's one well enough, though.

I never saw a replay of the whole thing, but did the ball actually move forward in today's game? It wasn't a lateral was it? I kind of doubt it, but I was hoping for a full replay and they never showed it after the challenge, just lots of replays of the ball coming out initially. I actually thought NBC's broadcast today was subpar, with lots of missed chances for replays, odd angles, etc., which was very unexpected considering this was a playoff game.

Dalton's arm was moving backwards when he was hit by Barwin. Barwin caused Dalton's arm to go forward.

[Big Lou]

I think the problem was the camera angles. I don't think their were any views where the ref could see the ball coming out before the forward motion. The best angle had a Texans head in the way.

[JCTexan]

Originally Posted by NCTexan

Playing off this, if they had ruled it a fumble what would of happened since it was blown dead?

I believe it would have been Houston's ball. Bradie James clearly recovered the ball.

[NCTexan]

Originally Posted by JCTexan

I believe it would have been Houston's ball. Bradie James clearly recovered the ball.

Thanks! Wasn't sure since it was blown before it was recovered.

[NitroGSXR]

Originally Posted by DocBar

He had control until Barwin hit his arm! That means fumble.

He had enough control to propel it forward. The ball flew a fair number of yards.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by NitroGSXR

He had enough control to propel it forward. The ball flew a fair number of yards.

BARWIN propelled that ball forward from his hit. Rewatch the replay, if you can find it.

[NitroGSXR]

Originally Posted by DocBar

BARWIN propelled that ball forward from his hit. Rewatch the replay, if you can find it.

I stand by my comments.

[powda]

Win or lose I thought it was a good challenge for once. I dont care if the arm went forward ... I care about the ball and want to see a few more replays.

[powda]

At what point did the qb lose the ball? If his arm wasn't going forward its a fumble. If the ball wasn't going forward without being touched by another player that's pretty telling...

[ajohnson80]

Luck fumbled. Dalton did not.