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Old 11-22-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by THE NFL DRAFT
Good point. But even if we do "lose" Carr, you still get value for him in the form of draft picks
Maybe not. Here's a NFL.com link that sort of explains the compensatory draft picks.

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Under terms of the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement, a team losing more or better compensatory free agents than it acquires in a year is eligible to receive compensatory draft picks.

The number of picks a team receives equals the net loss of compensatory free agents up to a maximum of four.

Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a club is covered by this formula.
So if the Texans sign more FA's than they lose (a real possibility), they would receive nothing for losing Carr. And if the Texans did lose more FA's than they signed, the highest draft pick a team can get is at the bottom of the 3rd round. I wouldn't call that "value". Casserly got more than that for Drew Henson.
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Old 11-22-2005   #22
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Originally Posted by THE NFL DRAFT
Good point. But even if we do "lose" Carr, you still get value for him in the form of draft picks.
Lucky covered compensatories. Just to be sure, I'll add--the transition tag does not carry any picks like the franchise tag does. It only provides an option to meet any offer sheet.
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Old 11-22-2005   #23
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There will be some interest in Carr if the Texans do not extend his contract. What the other teams are willing to pay will be at issue. I'm sure Dennis Green will be in the market for a QB. His job could be on the line, if the team does not improve next season. I'm also sure the Bears would be interested. Knowing that they can not count on Grossman. Both of the teams have room under the cap to make GOOD offers. Remember Kurt Warner got 5 million from the Giants in 2004. If Carr gets that kind of offer we save about 2.5 million. Its a gamble that could save some money but stress the relationship of Carr and the Texan. The best way to handle it is to try and renegotiate at the end of the season. If you can not reach a compromise then put him out as a restricted free agent. If I understand the the rules of RFA right, then another team would have to offer Carr a deal of at least 6 million before the Texans receive any draft compensation. (That is if the bonus is not included.)

One thing that I would like to point out is that the coaching staff beleives in Carr. Because when a season starts to go down the drain one of the first moves made is at QB. I have never heard the Texans mention benching Carr. I look at it this way. If MY JOB was on the line and I thought the QB was the problem he would be holding the clipboard.
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Old 11-22-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by TexAntagonise
If you can not reach a compromise then put him out as a restricted free agent. If I understand the the rules of RFA right, then another team would have to offer Carr a deal of at least 6 million before the Texans receive any draft compensation. (That is if the bonus is not included.)
Carr will not ever be a RFA. He is completing his 4th year in the league right now so he will become an UFA if the option is not exercised. RFA is for players with less than 4 accrued NFL seasons.
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Old 11-22-2005   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Carr will not ever be a RFA. He is completing his 4th year in the league right now so he will become an UFA if the option is not exercised. RFA is for players with less than 4 accrued NFL seasons.
This is what I have read. Collective Bargaining Agreement = (CBA)
"The definition that we cited above by the CBA for a Free Agent is really the definition of an "Unrestricted Free Agent" (UFA). More specifically, an UFA is : "[a] player [that] shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind." Basically, what that means is that an UFA is free to sign with the highest bidder (or the team of their choice) without that team having to give the original team any kind of compensation. When a player with five or more accrued seasons (or with four or more accrued seasons in any Capped Year) reaches the end of his player contract, he becomes an UFA. "

The part that I failed to notice was "Capped Year". Since the salary cap has been in place for some time now the 5 does not apply. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 11-22-2005   #26
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Why don't we see what Ragone has in him?

Johny Unitas was a QB out of Louisville that originally played as an undrafted free agent for Pittsburgh. He came in to back-up the Colts' number one overall pick, George Shaw, but took over for him when he went down with an injury. Has anyone else ever heard of George Shaw?

Joe Montana was a 3rd round selection with a weak arm. He won 4 Super Bowls. On September 24, 1989, the season when Montana set the record with the highest QB rating ever of 112.4 and 3rd highest completion percentage of 70.2%, Montana was sacked 8 times through 10 seconds into the 4th quarter against the Eagles. For the remainder of the 4th, he went 11 for 12 for 227 yards and 4 touchdowns to win the game. Does Carr do anything like this or just get up in a huff and run like a beheaded chicken on the next play?

Tom Brady was a 6th round selection out of that great passing school, Michigan, who was backing up the former number one overall selection Drew Bledsoe. Bledsoe goes down in Brady's second season and Brady goes on to win 3 Super Bowls.

Kurt Warner was an undrafted free agent who played Arena Football. Warner is a two time NFL MVP and Super Bowl XXXIV MVP in his win over the Titans.

Jake Delhomme was an undrafted free agent who won a World Bowl Championship with the Frankfurt Galaxy. Delhomme had the second highest QB rating ever in a Super Bowl.

Trent Green was an 8th round draft pick with San Diego who was released and played in the Canadian Football League for 2 weeks.

Ryan Leaf was an overall number one pick. Heath Shuler was a 3rd overall selection. Andre Ware, a top ten pick. David Klingler, a top ten pick. Akili Smith, Rick Mirer, Jeff George, all number one picks. Todd Blackledge was drafted ahead of Dan Marino. Being a QB drafted in the 1st round does not guarantee you a hall-of-fame career while being a lesser round or undrafted pick does not mean you aren't.

Kyle Orton, a rookie with the Bears, is the only QB who has played every game for his team this year yet still has fewer yards than David Carr.

We have not had another QB take a snap this season. Even in our blow-out losses, Carr has still taken every snap from center. Why? He's a fourth year "veteran" and does not play up to his contract. Of all those number one pick QBs I list above, the only one who ever even had one good season was George. As for the others, where are they now? And by the way, when you're picking as early as any team for which any of the QBs listed above played, your team bites. It's guys like Unitas and Montana who make their teams better, not all of the sudden the team that was a basement dweller the year before gets great around them and makes them look better than they are.
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Old 11-22-2005   #27
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mean mark8, that was a very well written statement. Biggest points, IMO, with the game already decided why is Carr still taking snaps? Why is it that Ragone can't get some gametime when the game is decidedly over? Why is it that our Coaching staff can obviously give up on a game and call running play after running play to end it, but can't put in another QB? Carr is in his last year, is there something in his contract saying we can only exercise the options available in it if Carr is never replaced, even at the end of game or something?

and second point, what do we stand to lose by putting in Ragone and seeing what the guy is capable of doing at full speed? Are the Coach's afraid of some kind of QB controversy or something?

if anyone has the answer please let me know, cause these questions are burning hot priorities, IMHO.
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Old 11-22-2005   #28
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I think it's more telling that Carr is ridiculously over paid for what he brings to the table.
My thoughts exactly. The Texans are crazy if they give him $8 million without addressing his true worth according to his play.

I don't think overpaying a fourth year QB based upon potential is a smart move. We have way too many areas to address on this team to give him superstar money.
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Old 11-22-2005   #29
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Can someone tell me what a transition player tag is? I did a search and found little help.
Thanks
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Old 11-22-2005   #30
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Originally Posted by NeViKaN
Can someone tell me what a transition player tag is? I did a search and found little help.
Thanks
The transition tag merely let's a team have an opportunity to match an offer given to their player at the cost of offering to pay the average of the top 10 salaries. There is no compensation if you choose not to match.
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Old 11-23-2005   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
The transition tag merely let's a team have an opportunity to match an offer given to their player at the cost of offering to pay the average of the top 10 salaries. There is no compensation if you choose not to match.
Thanks for the reply. What if the best offer is below the top 10 salaries? Can they offer him the lower of the two?
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Old 11-23-2005   #32
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Sure but no way this guy is worth $8M, not to this team, probably not to any team. Banks could have won one game also. Until the rest of the team is fixed its sensless to have an $8M quarterback, no matter who he is. Same reason it would be pointless to draft Linert, or Bush. They have too many holes, and should trade down to fill more holes.

I would like to see them play Banks or Ragone for a game so we could get a comparison, but Dom isn't letting that happen. He's too busy trying to fight for his job, to think of next year. He doesn't even put these guys in for mop up duty when the game is gone. Fourth quarter Sunday he should have replaced Carr, at least to give the other guys reps.
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Old 11-23-2005   #33
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I think you are right, the coaches don't want to start a controversy. They are also desperately trying to keep their jobs to the point of distraction. Dom said he would mix in Wells on Sunday, so DD didn't have to carry the ball so much, and especially since Wells look good the previous couple of weeks. Come game day and no Wells. They are clueless about why this team is failing, and they aren't giving any thought to next year, because they know if they don't win they are gone.
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