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Old 01-04-2013   #181
76Texan
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I remember there was a stretch of games (when we got punk'd by the NFC East) that every time we motioned the TE to the LOS, it was a run to that side. Every time we motioned the TE split..... it was a pass play.

The NFC East shut down our running game & I believe that was why. Never got any confirmation. But every time the TE went into motion, I knew whether it was run or pass & if a run, I knew which way it was going.
I didn't see this post until now, LOL; I thought debunked that myth as well not too long after TK mentioned it.

There was no tendency with our motion to indicate whether the play was going to be a run or a pass.
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Old 01-04-2013   #182
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I've already explained that this is not true.

(Pulling up the archive, you can see that Vinny, CNND, and others talked about this, with reference to Quentin Groves - a Jags player - in 2009 who was quoted as he saw D. Brown telegraphing play.)

I just went back to that game in Dec, week 13.

The first 3 play, Brown was in a 2-pt stance, the Texans went with the pass 3 times.
The next 2 plays, Brown was in a 3-pt stance, the Texans also went with the pass both times.

Groves was just shooting his mouth off.
You are over a year too late.

This was posted on 12/07/09 by Vinny in response to the Quentin Groves observation thread. It refers to my post of our observation made on a date more than 1 year prior (10/12/08)........way before and independent of any statements on the subject by Quentin Groves. The next day is when I spoke to Kubiak. The games thereafter were immediately and completely devoid of the pattern.


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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...ts#post1021852 10-12-2008


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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Just got back from the game. That's what I have to call it.

There were 2 interceptions, 4 non-interceptions that no one caught but should have been (by the Phins), and that last long catch be AJ should have been an interception (but only because of his shear strength took the ball from the defender).

Coach decisions to go for 2 extra points..........should have been called after the 1st touchdown.............and when finally called at the end of the game as an after thought.

Time management?...........I'd say take away Kubiak's analog watch and let him have a dummy digital one.............oh, excuse me, he already has one on the scoreboard.

DURING THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, VINNY POINTED OUT THAT IT APPEARED THAT DUANE BROWN WAS TELEGRAPHING OUT PLAYS. I SPENT THE REST OF THE GAME TABBING HIS OBSERVATION........AND IT'S A DEFINITE. APPROXIMATELY 90% OF THE TIME, IF BROWN TOOK A FULL CROUCH POSITION, IT WAS RUN...............IF BROWN TOOK A SEMI-CROUCH/SEMI-UPRIGHT POSITION, IT WAS A PASS. SOMEONE NEEDS TO RELATE THIS TO THE COACHES.

BTW, Gibbs on the sideline was so animated (pissed) most of the game, that he reminded me of a Joe Pesce understudy.

Yes, we won the game. But the excitement was definitely manufactured.
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Old 01-04-2013   #183
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
You are over a year too late.

This was posted on 12/07/09 by Vinny in response to the Quentin Groves observation thread. It refers to my post of our observation made on a date more than 1 year prior (10/12/08)........way before and independent of any statements on the subject by Quentin Groves. The next day is when I spoke to Kubiak. The games thereafter were immediately and completely devoid of the pattern.
OK, so I open the Colts game in week 5 on 10/5/08 with Rosenfels at the helm, and what did I see?

First offensive play, Texans in straight I.
Brown in a 2-pt stance and we ran the ball.
Any more question?

Want me to take some screen shots?
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Old 01-04-2013   #184
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
OK, so I open the Colts game in week 5 on 10/5/08 with Rosenfels at the helm, and what did I see?

First offensive play, Texans in straight I.
Brown in a 2-pt stance and we ran the ball.
Any more question?

Want me to take some screen shots?
Sorry, but I didn't have any questions to begin with. Vinny and I were at the 10/12/08 Miami game. I reported exactly what we saw. It was valid then. It is valid now. I'm out of this "discussion," thank you.
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Old 01-04-2013   #185
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Sorry, but I didn't have any questions to begin with. Vinny and I were at the 10/12/08 Miami game. I reported exactly what we saw. It was valid then. It is valid now. I'm out of this "discussion," thank you.
Your counting the snaps & forming your own opinion doesn't count.
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Old 01-04-2013   #186
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Sorry, but I didn't have any questions to begin with. Vinny and I were at the 10/12/08 Miami game. I reported exactly what we saw. It was valid then. It is valid now. I'm out of this "discussion," thank you.
Doc, you know I only have respect for you.

But eyes can, and do deceive us often.

I went ahead and took all the screen shots in the first quarter of the Colts game and the whole half of the Dolphins games.

The Colts game showed that there were no tendency, whatsoever.

In the Dolphins game, I can see why you guys "thought" there was a tendency.
However, it was far from an absolute tendency.

It is true that in the first half, many many plays went as you described; but there were 6 plays that bucked the trend.

Also, there were plays when we were in empty backfield; those, for sure, are pass plays (I don't think we set up running play for Schaub maybe once in a blue moon, LOL.)

So, even though there was somewhat of a tendency, the Dolphins can only guess since we never showed that tendency in the previous game against the Colts.

I don't think I need to post the screen shots, but if I have time, I may just upload them onto photobucket some day.
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Old 01-05-2013   #187
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Doc, you know I only have respect for you.

But eyes can, and do deceive us often.

I went ahead and took all the screen shots in the first quarter of the Colts game and the whole half of the Dolphins games.

The Colts game showed that there were no tendency, whatsoever.

In the Dolphins game, I can see why you guys "thought" there was a tendency.
However, it was far from an absolute tendency.

It is true that in the first half, many many plays went as you described; but there were 6 plays that bucked the trend.

Also, there were plays when we were in empty backfield; those, for sure, are pass plays (I don't think we set up running play for Schaub maybe once in a blue moon, LOL.)

So, even though there was somewhat of a tendency, the Dolphins can only guess since we never showed that tendency in the previous game against the Colts.

I don't think I need to post the screen shots, but if I have time, I may just upload them onto photobucket some day.
I'll never forget the 1st year that Marty Schottenheimer was an analyst for ESPN. More than once, he would take the audience through coaches tape and pinpoint something slight from an offensive player and clearly show how it signaled a specific play or play type. I believe that there are those coaches in the NFL gifted at finding those things. It would be surprising if the Texans weren't guilty of telegraphing something given they are starting a rookie RG (who has never played the position before) and a converted TE at RT (who is starting for the first time). If true, then it would explain the perceived predictability and also the drop in play of the left side of the line (at times) as well... It's hard to successfully run a bootleg play action pass if the weak side DE knows the play ahead of time!

(JUST A THEORY)
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Old 01-05-2013   #188
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'll never forget the 1st year that Marty Schottenheimer was an analyst for ESPN. More than once, he would take the audience through coaches tape and pinpoint something slight from an offensive player and clearly show how it signaled a specific play or play type. I believe that there are those coaches in the NFL gifted at finding those things. It would be surprising if the Texans weren't guilty of telegraphing something given they are starting a rookie RG (who has never played the position before) and a converted TE at RT (who is starting for the first time). If true, then it would explain the perceived predictability and also the drop in play of the left side of the line (at times) as well... It's hard to successfully run a bootleg play action pass if the weak side DE knows the play ahead of time!

(JUST A THEORY)
About the bootleg and play action, you might want to remember that we're the top team for at least three years now.
I think it was Dan Fouts who talked about it during one of our games.

When you lead the league for that long, you've got to do something right.

Also, in different pre-game press conferences, different opponents have mentioned how our line has been so consistent at making things look the same.

Now, I don't know about those gap runs we've been doing the last couple of years. It might be something interesting to go back to look at in the off-season.
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Old 01-06-2013   #189
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
If true, then it would explain the perceived predictability and also the drop in play of the left side of the line (at times) as well... It's hard to successfully run a bootleg play action pass if the weak side DE knows the play ahead of time!

(JUST A THEORY)
Here's my thinking on the "perceived predictability"

Who cares?

If you're telling me that Kubiak is predictable because "they" know we're going to run the ball on first down, I say so what. We should be able to run the ball on first down whether they know we're going to or not. We should be able to run the ball on 3rd & 1, whether they know or not. That's the difference between the good teams & the bad teams.

Now we've got a QB who is supposed to assess the defense & put us in the best position to succeed. If they're overloading the right side, he should switch it to the left. if they are overloading the left side, he should change it to the right. If they can out man us on both the left & the right, then we just aren't that good to begin with.

Wade Smith, Chris Myers, Ben Jones, Derek Newton, & Ryan Harris getting blown 2 yards off the ball ain't about being predictable. It's about needing to get better at your craft.


But that's just me.
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