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Old 01-03-2013   #21
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Default Re: Real Talk

Umm good coaches know how to make adjustments to compensate for injuries. Look at the pats a few years ago when brady went down and cassel stepped in, even the colts have had major injuries on the oline and luck still broke the rookie passing record.

Noone is saying some of the problems aren't injury, the problem is our coach does not know how to adjust to them. And he consistently has the players un prepared and uninspired. People can blame players for lack of execution and what not but I see the same game plan week in and out, even when its not working kubiak is to stubborn to adjust.

On top of that we have a bench full of young WRs with potential who rarely see the field even as our starters struggle to get open besides AJ...
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Old 01-03-2013   #22
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Frog, you were to orthodox it by number of punts.
The Browns are so bad at net punting, the total net yardage is further down the list, LOL.

The number of punts don't tell you much.
First, it got skewed because of the two OT games.
Some teams elect to go on fourth down or to try a faked punt.
Some teams give away the ball before they get to third down.

There should be other factors involved.

What is true is that we led the league in time of possession percentage.
Sure we did. I agree. But how many of those minutes ended up being wasted, stalled drives that ended in punts or field goal attempts? You can burn a lot of time going from your own 20 to the other team's 40 before punting. Gary loves to chew that clock, that's no secret.

Leading in time of possession is like saying "I've driven a lot of miles this year! Over 40,000 miles in one year!" Yeah, but where did you drive those miles? Did you drive the same 100-mile stretch of Interstate, back and forth a thousand times over and over, or did you really get out and see the rest of the country?
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Old 01-03-2013   #23
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Sure we did. I agree. But how many of those minutes ended up being wasted, stalled drives that ended in punts or field goal attempts? You can burn a lot of time going from your own 20 to the other team's 40 before punting. Gary loves to chew that clock, that's no secret.

Leading in time of possession is like saying "I've driven a lot of miles this year! Over 40,000 miles in one year!" Yeah, but where did you drive those miles? Did you drive the same 100-mile stretch of Interstate, back and forth a thousand times over and over, or did you really get out and see the rest of the country?
We were the #2 scoring team through week 15.
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Old 01-03-2013   #24
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
We were the #2 scoring team through week 15.
But there is only 17 weeks in the season. Are you saying we scored more times than not this season?

Like, maybe these last few weeks don't tell the whole story?

Maybe there's reason to believe we can play better than we have in December?

Strange.
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Old 01-03-2013   #25
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Sure we did. I agree. But how many of those minutes ended up being wasted, stalled drives that ended in punts or field goal attempts? You can burn a lot of time going from your own 20 to the other team's 40 before punting. Gary loves to chew that clock, that's no secret.

Leading in time of possession is like saying "I've driven a lot of miles this year! Over 40,000 miles in one year!" Yeah, but where did you drive those miles? Did you drive the same 100-mile stretch of Interstate, back and forth a thousand times over and over, or did you really get out and see the rest of the country?
We tied with the Saints at 25 (meaning good) in fewest total number of third and fourth down conversion attempts.
That's by itself is good already.
I don't have time to factor in the two OT games; there were a few in there.
That ought to make it even better.
Then you add the fact that we were on the positive side of the turnover battle, that part also makes it even better.

In conclusion, you can safely say that the other assertion is totally incorrect.
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Old 01-03-2013   #26
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Default Re: Real Talk

Being #2 in scoring through week 15 is great...that gets you to the dance.
Not being in the top 2 in scoring weeks 16 and 17 lost home field advantage.
The important scoring stat will be what number are we each week to the Superbowl.
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Old 01-03-2013   #27
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
While I can understand the sentiment there are a couple of things.

1. Butler's injury is irrelevant. He got beat out by that 7th round pick before he got injured. In other words, he was going to be on the bench and could not play any better than Newton. I remember watching them tightly in preseason and he did absolutely nothing of regard and separate himself from Newton. Secondly, the musical chairs at guard had nothing to do with injury either. Kubiak had issues with the running game and performance and that is when he began rotating Ben Jones in. Caldwell wasn't performing great. Simple as that. You're searching for something there but it is as simple as the guys aren't playing very consistent.

2. Injuries are part of the game. Folks really need to stop that as an excuse because every single team has them. The best coaches learn to adapt and put the tools at their disposal in the best situation for results. As for the edge rushers that has little to do with Cush. With Watt's emergence the edge guys have had one on one blocking. If they can't beat one on one blocks that is on them. They would have the same if Cush is there. But really have to stop with the injuries. Even with them we were still a more talented team than the Colts and Vikings.

I'm all for your sentiment. At the same time your points don't really do anything to change that tide. I can understand the frustrations of others and have no issues with their reactions. Just how some fans are and they just want the team we all love to play to it's true potential. Nothing wrong with that.
Caldwell was already on the injury list for the game in week 2 with an ankle sprain.
I don't have time to check whether he sustained the injury during the first game or during practice for the second game.

He's been on the injury list ever since with more than one injury.
His play has suffered because of that.
We need a player that can stay on the field, but I can't knock a guy for playing less than stellar because he's injured.

That's why I've said that I would rather move on with either Jones or Brooks; however, I would not mind if we resign Caldwell at the vet minimum or something a little more than that.
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Old 01-03-2013   #28
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Default Re: Real Talk

its always the plyers fault huh never the coaches fault well i can some what agree but

but ur basis is the reason we suck now is becasue we lost Mike and Winston ...????

.............so the reason why this hole season is a fail because we lost a aging guard and a average tackle then my gwad we deserve to LOSE LOL

i keep telling my self tho we are 12-4 best franchise record ever !!!!! maybe next year we can get 13 wins ...???? LOL
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Old 01-03-2013   #29
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Default Re: Real Talk

Butler was listed as a starter on the first official depth chart in preseason.
He suffered an injury during the final PS game, and was put on IR before they released him.

The plan might have been to work Newton in slowly, or we could have had a platoon situation with Newton being the starter.
That, we don't know.

They probably wanted to play Newton and let Butler be the swing tackle, like he was before.
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Old 01-03-2013   #30
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I thought Butler looked awful in preseason and should have been a back up or cut.
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Old 01-03-2013   #31
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Default Re: Real Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by bo orlando View Post
Everybody needs to chill the F out with this Kubiak's an idiot, Wade's out of tricks, Schaub sucks, and whatever other abstract pronouncements I keep hearing. The real problems:

1. The offense stinks because of the holes on the right side of the line. After Butler got injured, that left a 7th round pick to start at right tackle, and other injuries and erratic play has meant musical chairs at guard. So what are the problems with the offense? Lack of consistent running game, Schaub pressured and making bad passes, and lack of big plays downfield. Hmmm, seems like the type of thing that happens WHEN YOU CAN'T BLOCK.

2. The defense was dominant before Cushing's injury (and Joseph's injury to a different extent). Now the defense has trouble stopping the run, can't come up with key stops, and has trouble freeing up space for edge rushers. Gee, seems like problems a team might have when it LOSES ITS ALL-PRO INSIDE LINEBACKER.

So how is Kubiak suddenly more of an idiot than before, or Wade out of tricks, or Schaub suddenly a terrible QB who needs to be cut? It's the worst kind of reactionary thinking to look at a losing streak and trumpet abstract character pronouncements instead of looking at logical causes. It's one thing to argue that the team should have gone all-in for a super bowl run last offseason by keeping Winston and Briesel and going after a FA wide receiver, but if you are one of these "this guy sucks!" people, then you should probably take a deep breath, remove the sportstalk station from your speed dial, and spit the paste out of your mouth because you are a moron.
So you're saying the Texans are going to blowout the Bengals?

GO TEXANS
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Old 01-03-2013   #32
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Default Re: Real Talk

The injury that Butler suffered was the same one that kept him out most of the season the previous year.

In early August, when D. Brown suffered a mild injury during practice, that moved Butler to LT.

We can probably add two and two here and think that the better plan was to go with Newton and let Butler be the swing guy; it looks like they understood the likelihood of a recurrence of the injury.
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Old 01-03-2013   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
We tied with the Saints at 25 (meaning good) in fewest total number of third and fourth down conversion attempts.
That's by itself is good already.
I don't have time to factor in the two OT games; there were a few in there.
That ought to make it even better.
Then you add the fact that we were on the positive side of the turnover battle, that part also makes it even better.

In conclusion, you can safely say that the other assertion is totally incorrect.
Factor our penalties into that. A made-up example:

1st and 10: Gain 5 yards, gets called back for holding.

1st and 20: Gain 10 yards.

2nd and 10: Gain 6 yards.

3rd and 4: Gain 4 yards.

1st and 10: Gain 8 yards.

2nd and 2: Gain 3 yards.

1st and 10: Illegal hands to face of a defensive lineman, -5 yards.

1st and 15: Gain 7 yards.

2nd and 8: Gain 8 yards.

And the clock keeps rolling. We go forward, then back....then forward...clock keeps ticking. Penalties extend our T.O.P. because the clock ran during a holding penalty or illegal hands to the face.

Then we stall and kick a FG or punt.

There are a lot of factors that explain stats. For every stat, there is a lot going on around that stat that must be critiqued.

T.O.P. is not a good indicator of the efficiency of an offense, IMO. It's what you end up with on the scoreboard that matters. That's the only stat that matters.
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Old 01-03-2013   #34
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
We were the #2 scoring team through week 15.

Doesn't matter. Week 16-17 is where Champions are made.

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Old 01-03-2013   #35
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Factor our penalties into that. A made-up example:

1st and 10: Gain 5 yards, gets called back for holding.

1st and 20: Gain 10 yards.

2nd and 10: Gain 6 yards.

3rd and 4: Gain 4 yards.

1st and 10: Gain 8 yards.

2nd and 2: Gain 3 yards.

1st and 10: Illegal hands to face of a defensive lineman, -5 yards.

1st and 15: Gain 7 yards.

2nd and 8: Gain 8 yards.

And the clock keeps rolling. We go forward, then back....then forward...clock keeps ticking. Penalties extend our T.O.P. because the clock ran during a holding penalty or illegal hands to the face.

Then we stall and kick a FG or punt.

There are a lot of factors that explain stats. For every stat, there is a lot going on around that stat that must be critiqued.

T.O.P. is not a good indicator of the efficiency of an offense, IMO. It's what you end up with on the scoreboard that matters. That's the only stat that matters.
12-4 should be the only indicator for you then, because that's all that matters.
Thank you for understanding the concept.
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Old 01-03-2013   #36
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Default Re: Real Talk

real talk, as opposed to fake talk?
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Old 01-03-2013   #37
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Default Re: Real Talk

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Originally Posted by ajohnson80 View Post
Well I heard it mentioned in the Colts game last week a couple times. I can't find the stats from a quick search I will do a better one when I have more time.
According to these folks only the jags & cards had more 3 & outs than the Texans.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/st...rcentage/2012/
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Old 01-04-2013   #38
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Default Re: Real Talk

Quote:
After Butler got injured, that left a 7th round pick to start at right tackle
well, except that newton won the starting job before butler was injured...

Quote:
Schaub suddenly a terrible QB who needs to be cut?
i wouldnt say "suddenly"..
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Old 01-04-2013   #39
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Default Re: Real Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Should have been #1 by a huge margin if we would have capitalized in the Red Zone and Matt hadn't given the ball away (whether by interception or just not picking up the first down). Another example why stats are deceptive.
How about maybe expectations are sometimes unrealistic?

There's a reason you & I aren't playing in the NFL. Care to guess what that reason is?
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Old 01-04-2013   #40
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Default Re: Real Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath Shuler View Post
According to these folks only the jags & cards had more 3 & outs than the Texans.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/st...rcentage/2012/
The numbers are about right, actually.
It took awhile, but I went back to the gamebooks to check them (I only tallied the count in my thought.)

However, as usual, numbers can be very misleading.

1. In the 4 losses, we had fewer 3 and outs (in all, except the Vikings game).
We also had fewer or the same number as the opponent.

2. We had drives in the fourth quarter when we were leading, and just want to kill the clock. Same thing goes for the last drive before the half ends. Same thing goes for the victory formations. They all count as 3 and outs.

3. We had drives when we were pinned deep in our end zone and didn't want to take too much risk. If we don't convert, we just punted the ball and play defense.

4. We had those 2 Overtime games. If you sort the table by number of drives, we trailed only the Cards in the most drives (with much fewer 3 and outs).
53/202 = 26.24 %
As a percentage, that alone shows that we were better than 5 teams, not 3.

5. We don't go on 4th down hardly. Opponents went for it and turned the ball over on down a whole lot more often. That's even worse than 3-and-out.

6. We have fewer turnovers before getting to third down than many other teams (thus more chance to get to third down.)

As you can see, there are a lot of variables that you have to consider instead of looking at just one number.
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