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Old 01-02-2013   #61
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by DX-TEX View Post
What we are doing isnt working and you have to adapt. But Kubiak is just too damn stubborn or stupid.
eh.... again, there was a lot of good stuff happening Sunday. Andre, Matt, Arian, Kj, Jj.... all had pretty good days. We just need to find a way to make the score board reflect that.
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Old 01-02-2013   #62
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Pantherstang84 View Post
So your video link shows Schaub doing all the things he hasn't been doing lately. Hitting receivers in stride, throwing into double and triple coverage, moving in and stepping out of the,pocket to make plays. Which begs these questions.

Is the curtain starting to close on Matt Schaub's career? Have the injuries taken their toll? Is he still suffering ill effects from the Fat Albert injury?

One thing is apparent. The 2011 highlight video Matt Schaub looks far better than the 2012 Matt Schaub.
I don't know why Schaub is in such a slump. But I think his "demise" is a bit overstated. To me, there is nothing wrong with him physically. I think it's all mental. He's been having a great season, poor couple of games.

I think he's going to surprise many of us. His contract is going to look like a bargain.
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Old 01-02-2013   #63
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You can make up for arm issues by getting the ball out sooner, but an underthrow is an underthrow. You didn't put it out far enough. You saw your receiver and your pass came up short.

All this timing stuff is just more excise making. Kind of like bringing up his freaking stats. He's not and never has been some borderline elite qb. He was and is John kitna in a better system. And btw, 4,000 yards is not some magical mark in today's NFL. Matt schaub is like 10th in passing yardage and everyone behind him had less attempts except bradford who barely had less.
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Old 01-02-2013   #64
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
You can make up for arm issues by getting the ball out sooner, but an underthrow is an underthrow. You didn't put it out far enough. You saw your receiver and your pass came up short.

All this timing stuff is just more excise making. Kind of like bringing up his freaking stats. He's not and never has been some borderline elite qb. He was and is John kitna in a better system. And btw, 4,000 yards is not some magical mark in today's NFL. Matt schaub is like 10th in passing yardage and everyone behind him had less attempts except bradford who barely had less.
it's not excuse making dude...nobody's saying that the int he threw sunday wasn't on him...

But you guys act like other qb's don't underthrow/otherthrow the ball. Just b/c you get to see every pass he underthrows, doesn't mean that all the other qb's aren't doing.......it happens.
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Old 01-02-2013   #65
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Just b/c you get to see every pass he underthrows, doesn't mean that all the other qb's aren't doing.......it happens.
Never seems to happen when they play us lol
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Old 01-02-2013   #66
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

Sometimes the league just passes you by and it doesn't come with a big warning sign in neon lights. It happens when you start to be less and less effective doing things that used to form the core of your offense (or defense). Sure, there is definitely a talent shortage on the OL this year. QB play is poor after falling off from outstanding but in the end doesn't this offense, this system feel to you guys like it's just not working the way we all expected? Even the way it did a few years ago?

Think of how long we've been running this exact same offense. Granted we've got some rookies over there on the right side of the line but Foster's getting hit 3 yards in the backfield on the left side too. Guys who have been playing in this system for years and who were hand picked to run it are having trouble making it work against good defenses. Sure the scrubs are still getting rolled up with it but the teams we will be facing in the postseason aren't in the least bit baffled by what we're doing.

I think the problem our offense poses to defenses has been solved and we will begin seeing declining results that vary as our schedules difficulty varies. Chuck Noll didn't know when the game had passed him by and neither did Tom Landry. Shanahan in Washington seems to have been more than willing to change his offense to incorporate what RGIII had been doing and lets be honest, it's not like he was accomplishing much the last few years in Denver or the first few in Washington.

It's time to reinvent the wheel or it will be soon.
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Old 01-02-2013   #67
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I think the problem our offense poses to defenses has been solved and we will begin seeing declining results that vary as our schedules difficulty varies.

It's time to reinvent the wheel or it will be soon.
FYI, Andre had 12 catches for 141 yards. Arian had 96 yards on 16 carries. Schaub was 24/36 for 275 yards (66% @ 7.6 ypc)

I don't think defenses have the problem solved yet. We're going to blow some minds through the play-offs.
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Old 01-02-2013   #68
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

I think the future of the NFL is in small, mobile QBs who have big fast WRs.

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks is the prime example.

Pete Carroll might have just become the next Bill Belichick in terms of finally learning what it takes to win in the NFL. Bill struggled multiple times before landing in N.E. and then stumbling upon Tom Brady...and even then, he had not employed the spread offense that eventually Tom Brady led into great success.

Pete should have started Matt Flynn, based on the standard "rules" of what happens when you pay a Qb a starter's salary. Pete, though, decided to go with a gut instinct. And I think the Seahawks might just play in the SB because of it.

They're legitimately dangerous now.

You have to go on gut instincts, and Kubiak and Smith just can't do that. It's still very old school to them. Loyalty and methodical plodding is the order of the day. Kubiak would never go for a fake punt when he's up on a team by 3 or 4 scores...Pete has learned what Bill learned: Eff 'em.

We're nice, as if we're to believe that the football gods prefer gentlemen and scholars. Look what it gets us.
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Old 01-02-2013   #69
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Sometimes the league just passes you by and it doesn't come with a big warning sign in neon lights. It happens when you start to be less and less effective doing things that used to form the core of your offense (or defense). Sure, there is definitely a talent shortage on the OL this year. QB play is poor after falling off from outstanding but in the end doesn't this offense, this system feel to you guys like it's just not working the way we all expected? Even the way it did a few years ago?

Think of how long we've been running this exact same offense. Granted we've got some rookies over there on the right side of the line but Foster's getting hit 3 yards in the backfield on the left side too. Guys who have been playing in this system for years and who were hand picked to run it are having trouble making it work against good defenses. Sure the scrubs are still getting rolled up with it but the teams we will be facing in the postseason aren't in the least bit baffled by what we're doing.

I think the problem our offense poses to defenses has been solved and we will begin seeing declining results that vary as our schedules difficulty varies. Chuck Noll didn't know when the game had passed him by and neither did Tom Landry. Shanahan in Washington seems to have been more than willing to change his offense to incorporate what RGIII had been doing and lets be honest, it's not like he was accomplishing much the last few years in Denver or the first few in Washington.

It's time to reinvent the wheel or it will be soon.
For this particular season, i think this is the thing that needs to happen more than anything..He just needs to change his philosophy...drop back and sling it...let the chips fall where they may.
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Old 01-02-2013   #70
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I think the future of the NFL is in small, mobile QBs who have big fast WRs.

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks is the prime example.

Pete Carroll might have just become the next Bill Belichick in terms of finally learning what it takes to win in the NFL. Bill struggled multiple times before landing in N.E. and then stumbling upon Tom Brady...and even then, he had not employed the spread offense that eventually Tom Brady led into great success.

Pete should have started Matt Flynn, based on the standard "rules" of what happens when you pay a Qb a starter's salary. Pete, though, decided to go with a gut instinct. And I think the Seahawks might just play in the SB because of it.

They're legitimately dangerous now.

You have to go on gut instincts, and Kubiak and Smith just can't do that. It's still very old school to them. Loyalty and methodical plodding is the order of the day.
I don't know about small, mobile QBs being the future of the NFL. Just mobile/more athletic QBs. The days of statues are pretty much done. A QB needs to be able to move around, evade tacklers, scramble a few yards for a first down and maybe more, throw on the run, etc. Harbaugh also went with his gut in picking Kaepernick over Alex Smith. He saw his team becoming stagnant with Smith, and realized that putting in Kaepernick would open up the playbook more and allow for more big plays.
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Old 01-02-2013   #71
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

To fix this offense , the passing game has to get verticle .... all this horozontal sh!t .... is going backwards. Problem is , the QB doesnt have the arm to get verticle.


Where's VY ?! (no , not really , that was a joke)
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Old 01-02-2013   #72
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
FYI, Andre had 12 catches for 141 yards. Arian had 96 yards on 16 carries. Schaub was 24/36 for 275 yards (66% @ 7.6 ypc)

I don't think defenses have the problem solved yet. We're going to blow some minds through the play-offs.

Sure they do. You ever heard the expression "_____________ is gonna get his, you just can't let him beat you".

Well, good defenses know how to make that happen against the Houston Texans. They have for a couple of years.

You're rattling off a bunch of statistics that all together amount to nothing but an "L". All day long the Colts were in control despite this wealth of statistics.
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Old 01-02-2013   #73
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
You're rattling off a bunch of statistics that all together amount to nothing but an "L". All day long the Colts were in control despite this wealth of statistics.
It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.
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Old 01-02-2013   #74
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.
So, they give away the number one seed in the playoffs in order to "get their **** together"? That doesn't make much sense.
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Old 01-02-2013   #75
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.
What game were you watching? The Texans were soundly beaten in all three phases of the game. To think otherwise is, well delusional. IMHO
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Old 01-02-2013   #76
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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What game were you watching? The Texans were soundly beaten in all three phases of the game. To think otherwise is, well delusional. IMHO
I believe what he is meaning is it wasn't the Colts that dominated us but mental lapses. The touchdown on the deep seam pattern was a mental lapse by the safety. Not a mano y mano situation. The touchdown on the kickoff return where the guy wasn't even touched because folks didn't maintain their lanes is another mental lapse. On top of this you got the silly penalties as well.

So basically 14 points right there where guys forgot about the mental part of their job. They weren't beat, they beat themselves. It was nothing clever or that took amazing effort on the Colts part. Just took bonehead moments.

In the end, it matters little. Colts won and deserved it since they played like they wanted to win where the Texans looked to be going through the motions as if they 'expected' to win instead of fighting for it.
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Old 01-02-2013   #77
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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it's not excuse making dude...nobody's saying that the int he threw sunday wasn't on him...

But you guys act like other qb's don't underthrow/otherthrow the ball. Just b/c you get to see every pass he underthrows, doesn't mean that all the other qb's aren't doing.......it happens.
All QB's don't underthrow WRs like Schaub. He underthrows more than he overthrows or puts the ball where the WR can catch it in stride. I've watched plenty of football and good QB's aren't consistently underthrowing WR's.... More excuse making...par for the course.
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Old 01-02-2013   #78
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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I don't know about small, mobile QBs being the future of the NFL. Just mobile/more athletic QBs. The days of statues are pretty much done. A QB needs to be able to move around, evade tacklers, scramble a few yards for a first down and maybe more, throw on the run, etc. Harbaugh also went with his gut in picking Kaepernick over Alex Smith. He saw his team becoming stagnant with Smith, and realized that putting in Kaepernick would open up the playbook more and allow for more big plays.
Drew Brees is small, he's done OK.

The bigger guys tend to get hit harder, IMO. I think guys like Brees and Wilson will play longer than guys like Cam and RGIII because of height issues. The smaller guys tend to find ways to avoid the hits when running, and the taller guys tend to not protect themselves as much.

Goodell, for better or for worse, is basically making the NFL into the Arena League but with the pageantry of the NFL. Sling the ball all day long.
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Old 01-02-2013   #79
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.
No, sorry. Indy stopped us. It's a nice take on things and I wish I could share it with you but Indy played hard, flew to the ball, and blasted through our line most of the day.
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Old 01-02-2013   #80
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Default Re: LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak canít rely on Ďthe systemí he has

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
To fix this offense , the passing game has to get verticle .... all this horozontal sh!t .... is going backwards. Problem is , the QB doesnt have the arm to get verticle.


Where's VY ?! (no , not really , that was a joke)
His arm strength isn't really the issue imo... he's got enough to get it where it needs to be. There were and have been more than a few throws that he made in the colts game and in all of these games that you wouldn't think he could make if his arm strength was the chief issue.

It's his footwork that's the main issue imo. When you're throwing a ball of any kind, that front foot/toe should always be pointed directly at your target..or where you're throwing. with both his ints, his foot placement was off. If you watch guys like Brady and Manning, they're front foot/toe is always pointed straight forward to their target. Another thing he also tends to do is overstride when he throws deep. Mark Sanchez has this issue...Donovan Mcnabb had this issue too.

In any event, Both of these things effect accuracy and can also affect how much "umf" you can get on the ball...

his 1st int, it looks to me he overstrided a little..& looking at the replay of it..i don't think his foot was placed where it should've been either..it wasn't pointed forward to his target that's for sure.

His 2nd int, while he didn't overstride, his front foot just kinda goes off to the side when he's moving forward on the balance-weight transfer..
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