Dreessen, Ryans, Winston, Brisiel, Leach.

[powda]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Yeah that makes sense.

I dont care about anything related to the cap 7 years ago as it has zero bearing on anything related to today - though what he inherited vs last years figure coupled with the losses we've had to take (see thread title, should we include people like dunta etc?) display mismanagement. Exonerating smith today because of anything 7 years ago makes sense to you? Thats just dumb, and suggesting he has no control over the talent kept and bought in here is even dumber. If your giving him a free pass thats exactly what your doing. This is the same guy who cut talent to sign jacoby.

[utahmark]

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico

i have never understood how a team so close, would be so frugal. considering the texans as a franchise are what, the 5th or 6th most valuable sports franchise according to forbes? Is paying a luxury tax or giving up late round picks as a slap on the wrist really enough to make Bobby Mac become shiesty?
If we had all the guys mentioned in this thread we'd be in such a better place. hindisight is 20/20 right? only that many people were scratching their heads when all those guys were let go.

the texans = make 1 good move, but then make 5 dumb ones.

It's a hard cap dude. This is not the nba. There is no luxury tax.

[Honoring Earl 34]

As far as the OL goes , the Texans have some guys that will be FAs next year and rotate the guys in that they're grooming to take their place . That gets you a cluster real quick .

[mridge01]

I don't really get the point of this thread. The texans were 10-6 last season with these guys and 12-4 without them this season. Agree with another poster, all role players. Coaches just haven't been able to make adjust with the league catching up to them. OP made some interesting observations regarding the decreased production in the run game, but I think a lot of that is on Arian not running as hard. Ben Tate and Justin forsett are each averaging over 4 yards per carry, 4.3 and 5.9 respectively. Of the current issues, I don't think not retaining the players listed are one of them. Demeco Ryans was not very impactful for the eagles. This defense misses Cushing more.

[Grungo_Taco]

Originally Posted by mridge01

I don't really get the point of this thread. The texans were 10-6 last season with these guys and 12-4 without them this season. Agree with another poster, all role players. Coaches just haven't been able to make adjust with the league catching up to them. OP made some interesting observations regarding the decreased production in the run game, but I think a lot of that is on Arian not running as hard. Ben Tate and Justin forsett are each averaging over 4 yards per carry, 4.3 and 5.9 respectively. Of the current issues, I don't think not retaining the players listed are one of them. Demeco Ryans was not very impactful for the eagles. This defense misses Cushing more.

I agree. This thread is totally "pissing in the wind". Those guys are gone, get over it & move on.

[powda]

Originally Posted by Grungo_Taco

I agree. This tread is totally "pissing in the wind". Those guys are gone, get over it & move on.

Its only pissing in a mild wind. The guys who made those choices are still here and there is a matter of accountability. Personally, I think this team misses winston's production a lot.

[Grungo_Taco]

Originally Posted by powda

Its only pissing in a mild wind. The guys who made those choices are still here and there is a matter of accountability. Personally, I think this team misses winston's production a lot.

The right side of the line has been a problem. But, it seems like most texans fans have forgot about Winston's poor pass protection & untimely penalties. I miss Winston, but I don't think our offense would all of a sudden "click" if he came back. Our entire OLine is getting destroyed off the line (besides brown & brooks). It seems like having the zone blocking schema as the backbone of an nfl offense is becoming outdated. Teams are maintaining the backside cut, and the one cut lanes. We need to pass to set up the run.. and only one man can make that happen. Paging Mr. Schaub.. I repeat, Paging Mr. Schaub.

[powda]

Originally Posted by Grungo_Taco

The right side of the line has been a problem. But, it seems like most texans fans have forgot about Winston's poor pass protection & untimely penalties. I miss Winston, but I don't think our offense would all of a sudden "click" if he came back. Our entire OLine is getting destroyed off the line (besides brown & brooks). It seems like having the zone blocking schema as the backbone of an nfl offense is becoming outdated. Teams are maintaining the backside cut, and the one cut lanes. We need to pass to set up the run.. and only one man can make that happen. Paging Mr. Schaub.. I repeat, Paging Mr. Schaub.

Teams are being way more disciplined against us...and newton cant secure the corner like winston on the stretch. As many times as i cussed winston for his false starts he always excelled there. Just thought it was dumb to make 2 changes there in the same season. And yup...there were times schaub would pass to set up the run...havent seen it lately.

The rest of the nfl has caught up with our scheme and player weaknesses. Not good.

[Grungo_Taco]

Originally Posted by powda

Teams are being way more disciplined against us...and newton cant secure the corner like winston on the stretch. As many times as i cussed winston for his false starts he always excelled there. Just thought it was dumb to make 2 changes there in the same season. And yup...there were times schaub would pass to set up the run...havent seen it lately.

The rest of the nfl has caught up with our scheme and player weaknesses. Not good.

No doubt. Also, Owen Daniels has been a shell of himself the past 5-6 weeks. He's clearly playing through pain, and doing a poor job of it. Seems like Schaub goes as Daniels goes.. And right now, Schaub's safety net is not playing up to his potential due to injury. And... I put that on Kubiak. But, you know Kubes, if you are hurt and can't play... That's a one way ticket to his doghouse. Just ask Ben Tate.

[Tailgate]

Originally Posted by Grungo_Taco

I agree. This thread is totally "pissing in the wind". Those guys are gone, get over it & move on.

This team has certainly moved on and well, you see the results.

[Grungo_Taco]

Originally Posted by Tailgate

This team has certainly moved on and well, you see the results.

If you think adding ryans, winston, brisiel (who all graded out negatively via football outsiders) would change anything.. There is nothing I can say. This team's slump begins and ends with Kubiak and Schaub. I'd put our nonexistent OLB pass rush right up there with them.

[Tailgate]

Originally Posted by Grungo_Taco

If you think adding ryans, winston, brisiel (who all graded out negatively via football outsiders) would change anything.. There is nothing I can say. This team's slump begins and ends with Kubiak and Schaub. I'd put our nonexistent OLB pass rush right up there with them.

And if you think adding all of these guys back would not change anything then there is nothing I can say to you either...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by powda

Eshh. Pretty bold statement. Dont get me wrong, winston was no superstar in pass pro but he was a road grader in the run game. Remember the shock here after he was cut...before we had a known solution in place? Brisel vs. the committee we've had at right guard is where I have a problem with your statement. Either way I think we can all agree when you have a dominant line you dont replace multiple parts at the same time.

It's funny to read a thread 2 1/2 months later. A thread thats in the right place.

Leach and Ryans were over paid for their use here and I didn't feel like we could justify either with a cap to navigate. Briesel left voluntarily, so our opinions dont really matter here. Dreesen, ehhh. I guess Winston (and jacoby freaking jones) are the only ones I truly take issue with.

I was against giving Eric such a big contract from the beginning. I'd have much rather kept Ryans & I mentioned an injury to Cushing being the main reason. I understand the numbers don't work out, but I thought he would be interested in restructuring. At the $$ he got, I'm fine with letting him go.

I wouldn't have had a problem paying Leach, but it looked like we decided to go with Jacoby. A year later & he's gone so that decision doesn't look like such a good one either.

Long story short, I was shocked to see they cut Winston, but I wasn't upset or anxious in the slightest.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by powda

Teams are being way more disciplined against us...and newton cant secure the corner like winston on the stretch.

Some of Foster's biggest runs have been to the right. I think his longest run was to the right. Sunday, the only problem I saw running to the right was when OD was there trying to block a LB.

Other than that, Newton is doing his job. Winston was stronger, I'll give you that. He probably blew people off the ball much more explosively than Newton does. I don't have any negatives on Winston in the run game, but Newton is doing his job just fine.

[HOU-TEX]

I miss both Cushing and D-Ryans the most. Watching our ILB's nowadays is like watching two monkeys f---in a football.

[deucetx]

I'm sure others said it but some of these I can't hold against the team.

Brisiel, Leach, Ryan - too much salary. Brisiel was overpaid by the Raiders who now fans want gone after a piss poor season on his end. Leach got way too much for a FB who would not be on the field as much in our system. We still could have grabbed a cheaper option like we did in Vickers but oh well. Ryans was making too much too for his spot in the system. Would have been nice with Cush going down but that is hindsight and if Cush didn't get injured Ryans still would have been overpaid. Can't really calculate for injuries in such situations.

Heh with that said...I still miss the guy's leadership and his drive on the field.

Dressen - Graham has graded to be a blocker just as good or just slightly less than Dressen so there was no dropoff there. BUT...Owen Daniels can't block for crap. A double tight with Dressen and Graham would have been nice but defense would pick up on that rather easily since Daniels is the better receiving option of those.

Winston - I understand the salary issue. Only problem I had with this is they didn't even attempt to talk to him about restructure. He was definitely being overpaid but would have been nice if they attempted to some sort of communication with the guy about making his contract better for the team. I see some teams that have financial experts just for this that can make these deals happen. We don't seem to be in that same boat.

[Texan_Touchdown]

were 23rd in the league in ypc because we can't throw the ball. Our offense is based on setting up the run with the pass, then later in the game running and setting up the pass. its' suppose to keep the defense guessing but gets really predicable when your quaterback can't throw the ball. to anyone beyone his first read.

[Texan_Touchdown]

Originally Posted by deucetx

I'm sure others said it but some of these I can't hold against the team.

Brisiel, Leach, Ryan - too much salary. Brisiel was overpaid by the Raiders who now fans want gone after a piss poor season on his end. Leach got way too much for a FB who would not be on the field as much in our system. We still could have grabbed a cheaper option like we did in Vickers but oh well. Ryans was making too much too for his spot in the system. Would have been nice with Cush going down but that is hindsight and if Cush didn't get injured Ryans still would have been overpaid. Can't really calculate for injuries in such situations.

Heh with that said...I still miss the guy's leadership and his drive on the field.

Dressen - Graham has graded to be a blocker just as good or just slightly less than Dressen so there was no dropoff there. BUT...Owen Daniels can't block for crap. A double tight with Dressen and Graham would have been nice but defense would pick up on that rather easily since Daniels is the better receiving option of those.

Winston - I understand the salary issue. Only problem I had with this is they didn't even attempt to talk to him about restructure. He was definitely being overpaid but would have been nice if they attempted to some sort of communication with the guy about making his contract better for the team. I see some teams that have financial experts just for this that can make these deals happen. We don't seem to be in that same boat.

Yeah I agree with everything u said. They were all pretty much over paid and it's time to re stock. Winston was the hardest for me pretty much like everybody else. I really believe our run offense would have been better but who knows. I thought Dreesen was a great target for Schuab in the endzone but now its nobody.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texan_Touchdown

Yeah I agree with everything u said. They were all pretty much over paid and it's time to re stock. Winston was the hardest for me pretty much like everybody else. I really believe our run offense would have been better but who knows. I thought Dreesen was a great target for Schuab in the endzone but now its nobody.

It would have been nice to be able to retain those guys, but we can't.

It took 5 years for Dreessen to become a valid target; Graham has pretty much gotten there in 3 years.

We just can't afford nearly $3M on a second TE (and his cap hit would have been $3.3M this year.)

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Texan_Touchdown

were 23rd in the league in ypc because we can't throw the ball. Our offense is based on setting up the run with the pass, then later in the game running and setting up the pass. its' suppose to keep the defense guessing but gets really predicable when your quaterback can't throw the ball. to anyone beyone his first read.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-hq-vid...ffensive-flaws

He knows a little bit about passing the ball & i couldn't agree with him more by the way. All of this about Schaub is valid.........to a point..