Dreessen, Ryans, Winston, Brisiel, Leach.

[Tailgate]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Right!

We might be the team that pound the rock the most on 3rd or 4th and short.
These are instances where the defense stack the line and it's difficult to gain much yardage.

I looked at the Chiefs for example.
They only ran on those occasions 8 times in 6 games with 3 different backs.
We use Tate that much by himself, and we use Foster almost 3 times as much.

We also run the ball a lot near the goal-line.
We also had several instances where we were back-up near our own and decided to run the ball some to get out of risky situation by passing the ball.

And there were times when wanted to consume the clock (when we had a big lead.)
Against the Dolphins, Foster netted 2 yards on 3 carries toward the end.
Schaub knelt down 3 times for -3.
All of that reflects in the 3.8 ypc.

Against the Jags, Schaub knelt down twice for -3

Against the Broncos, Foster ran 5 times for 12 yards to run down the clock.

Against the Titans, Schaub knelt down twice for -2

Against the Jets, Foster ran 3 times for -5

Against the Packers, Foster ran twice for 3 yards with 12 seconds left in the half.
We were on our 13-yd line and just wanted to end the half, but the Packers called a stupid time-out to make us run another play.

Take out just these 20 times that we ran out the clock, and the average is already up to 4.15

Love it. Thanks for this.

Look, I am not trying to be a debby downer nor am I thinking we could have magically kept everyone and thats the answer. I was merley trying to find some optimism in the void that has been left by the loss of these players and playing the devils advocate. Will we overcome? That STILL remains to be seen obviously.

Huge game this weekend, and I will be there as I always am yelling my ass off and hopefully this defense can rebound against Rice, Flacco, and Smith.

[Hervoyel]

Could have kept Leach if we'd let Jacoby go and frankly that would have been a better decision than giving that idiot JJ the money we gave him.

Winston & Brisiel were in my eyes a wash. Right now it looks like we made a mistake. By the end of the season we won't even miss them. It takes time to get offensive linemen working together as seemlessly as we had last season but their replacements are not bad players. They just need time. There's no replacement for reps.

Ryans I was ok with seeing traded but I don't feel like they did enough to shore up the position once he was gone. James was an ok acquisition but I don't know why they see him as a starter. Regardless even if Ryans was still here Dobbins would still be seeing the field and that would still hurt us. Sharper I am unimpressed with. I feel like if Posey pays off then it won't matter but if he washes out we'll all be wishing we'd taken an ILB there instead of a project WR.

Dreeson I don't think we miss nearly as much as some people think. He's good but it's not like we're looking at an empty TE pantry. Graham is like the new OL starters. He needs reps, it will be fine.

[Norg]

Originally Posted by utahmark

1 - I hate to see this board when we start losing more than once every six games.

2 - I think we should of kept Winston and Brisiel and traded foster for draft picks. I know it's not a popular opinion but imo offensive lineman are more important to a consistant run game than running backs. They also protect the quarterback.

3 - This thread is about how the loss of certain players effects this current team. Why would you want him to put it in the NFL thread?

thats a big gamble IMO i might have done that if winston didnt suck so bad im not trading Foster for a Hog- Mike and a pretty average RT-winston that would make no sense to me

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Could have kept Leach if we'd let Jacoby go and frankly that would have been a better decision than giving that idiot JJ the money we gave him.

If I remember correctly, both LeStar Jean & Trindon Holliday got hurt before we signed Jj.... he was the last receiver with experience with the team. I don't know that we had much of a choice. Remember we even signed David Anderson to play a game or two. We were desperate!!!

[Lurvinator11]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

If I remember correctly, both LeStar Jean & Trindon Holliday got hurt before we signed Jj.... he was the last receiver with experience with the team. I don't know that we had much of a choice. Remember we even signed David Anderson to play a game or two. We were desperate!!!

No we actually signed him right after the lockout ended, before we knew about Jean getting hurt. He was our first signing of that crazy free agency frenzy once the lockout was lifted and we were allowed to sign free agents again. Then came JJo and D. Manning.

So yeah. Losing him WOULD have hurt since we wouldn't have had WR depth. Also with AJ going down, that would have made the only reciever with experience in our system, Kevin Walter.

Kinda scary to think what if that would have happened.

[Tailgate]

We will need to do a much better job of replacing these guys and FAST.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by srrono

Not Texans Thread belongs in NFL section

Originally Posted by ckhouston

Not Texans thread and the answer is no ... move on already.

Sure it is. It's about the effect of losing these players on the Houston Texans.

[thunderkyss]

They are all role players. Replaceable. May not be easily replaceable, but replaceable all the same.

I like Newton & Jones. I think when it's all said & done, they will be better than Winston & Briesel, even though it appears we intend to fit Brooks into the line.

I don't have a problem with James Casey at FB, I just don't like the humdrum way we use him.

Graham instead of Dressen. eh... it took 3 years before we saw Dressen as an important cog in the wheel.

[TheRealJoker]

5 physical players that brought some toughness to the team that were replaced with 5 guys who have yet to prove they can push other players around at the same level.

[76Texan]

And somehow some folks think we had the money to bring in Peyton Manning.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I like Newton & Jones. I think when it's all said & done, they will be better than Winston & Briesel,

You can like them all you want, and but neither Newton or Jones have shown they can replace the guys that were lost. Inexperienced and unathletic is what I've seen from these two.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Lucky

You can like them all you want, and but neither Newton or Jones have shown they can replace the guys that were lost. Inexperienced and unathletic is what I've seen from these two.

One of us will be proven right.

Briesel & Winston were elite, imo, in the run game. It's going to take time before Jones & Newton will get there. If they can. However, I've seen they've got the talent to get there, both guys are much more athletic than Briesel & Winston.

Their pass protection has already been better than either guy.

[powda]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Their pass protection has already been better than either guy.

Eshh. Pretty bold statement. Dont get me wrong, winston was no superstar in pass pro but he was a road grader in the run game. Remember the shock here after he was cut...before we had a known solution in place? Brisel vs. the committee we've had at right guard is where I have a problem with your statement. Either way I think we can all agree when you have a dominant line you dont replace multiple parts at the same time.

It's funny to read a thread 2 1/2 months later. A thread thats in the right place.

Leach and Ryans were over paid for their use here and I didn't feel like we could justify either with a cap to navigate. Briesel left voluntarily, so our opinions dont really matter here. Dreesen, ehhh. I guess Winston (and jacoby freaking jones) are the only ones I truly take issue with.

[Uncle Rico]

i have never understood how a team so close, would be so frugal. considering the texans as a franchise are what, the 5th or 6th most valuable sports franchise according to forbes? Is paying a luxury tax or giving up late round picks as a slap on the wrist really enough to make Bobby Mac become shiesty?

If we had all the guys mentioned in this thread we'd be in such a better place. hindisight is 20/20 right? only that many people were scratching their heads when all those guys were let go.

the texans = make 1 good move, but then make 5 dumb ones.

[eriadoc]

I'll take this thread up a notch. Y'all are focusing on these four players, and that's fine, but consider this: Two players remain from the '06, '07, and '08 drafts. We've been told that the team is building through the draft. Well, if that's true, then you have to hit more than you miss and you have to keep the hits as best you can. So either Kubiak did a poor job drafting in those years, or the team has essentially rebuilt again.

By way of contrast, the Steelers, who the Texans have claimed to want to emulate, have at least nine players from their '06-'08 drafts. I don't know their roster and didn't actually check it, so those are just the ones off the top of my head. There may actually be more. I'd be willing to bet the better teams in the NFL have at least six players on their roster still from those three drafts. Player careers average about 3.3 years, so there's a bit of rebuilding involved every year. Therefore, when you hit a winner, you have to find a way to keep them.

Everyone talks about the cap problems that made the Texans lose those players, but the Texans are the ones that put themselves in cap hell. The better teams manage to keep their good players on a more consistent basis. They'll lose guys like Mario Williams, because that's ridiculous, but they'll keep guys like Ryans, Winston, and Dreesen.

The guy running the team has been doing it now for seven full seasons, and three players remain from his first three seasons or earlier. So yeah, it takes seven years to build a winner when you waste the first three years.

[powda]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

I'll take this thread up a notch. Y'all are focusing on these four players, and that's fine, but consider this: Two players remain from the '06, '07, and '08 drafts. We've been told that the team is building through the draft. Well, if that's true, then you have to hit more than you miss and you have to keep the hits as best you can. So either Kubiak did a poor job drafting in those years, or the team has essentially rebuilt again.

By way of contrast, the Steelers, who the Texans have claimed to want to emulate, have at least nine players from their '06-'08 drafts. I don't know their roster and didn't actually check it, so those are just the ones off the top of my head. There may actually be more. I'd be willing to bet the better teams in the NFL have at least six players on their roster still from those three drafts. Player careers average about 3.3 years, so there's a bit of rebuilding involved every year. Therefore, when you hit a winner, you have to find a way to keep them.

Everyone talks about the cap problems that made the Texans lose those players, but the Texans are the ones that put themselves in cap hell. The better teams manage to keep their good players on a more consistent basis. They'll lose guys like Mario Williams, because that's ridiculous, but they'll keep guys like Ryans, Winston, and Dreesen.

The guy running the team has been doing it now for seven full seasons, and three players remain from his first three seasons or earlier. So yeah, it takes seven years to build a winner when you waste the first three years.

Good points here. You cant talk about the draft, free agency, and the cap without mentioning rick smith. He didnt inherent cap hell, he created it. I've had more faith in our recent drafts then durring the casserly regime (puke.) BUT if you dont keep any of those players who cares...your just forcing your draft success rate to be higher to win.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

By way of contrast, the Steelers, who the Texans have claimed to want to emulate, have at least nine players from their '06-'08 drafts. I don't know their roster and didn't actually check it, so those are just the ones off the top of my head. There may actually be more. I'd be willing to bet the better teams in the NFL have at least six players on their roster still from those three drafts. Player careers average about 3.3 years, so there's a bit of rebuilding involved every year. Therefore, when you hit a winner, you have to find a way to keep them.

It's four - Willie Colon '06, LaMarr Woodley '07, Lawrence Timmons '07 and Rashad Mendenhall '08.

Originally Posted by powda

Good points here. You cant talk about the draft, free agency, and the cap without mentioning rick smith. He didnt inherent cap hell, he created it.

Actually Smith did inherent cap hell and a worse kind. The Texans were carrying tons of dead money for guys not on the roster. We are up against the cap now but with little dead money so we are getting use for people on the roster.

[powda]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Actually Smith did inherent cap hell and a worse kind. The Texans were carrying tons of dead money for guys not on the roster. We are up against the cap now but with little dead money so we are getting use for people on the roster.

Our current cap, at least previous to cutting winston was far worse then anything he inherited 7 years ago. The focus here regardless should be 7 years....7 years. Smith gets no free pass for our cap scenerio.I maintain my previous comment.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

It's four - Willie Colon '06, LaMarr Woodley '07, Lawrence Timmons '07 and Rashad Mendenhall '08.



Actually Smith did inherent cap hell and a worse kind. The Texans were carrying tons of dead money for guys not on the roster. We are up against the cap now but with little dead money so we are getting use for people on the roster.

The Pats retained 3 guys from their 06-08 draft.

The kicker from 06.
Mayo, a LB, from 08.
And a seldom-used ST player named Matt Slater (I bet hardly anybody even knows who he is, and what he does).

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by powda

Our current cap, at least previous to cutting winston was far worse then anything he inherited 7 years ago.

So bumping up against the cap because you have $20+ mil in dead money is better than bumping up against the cap because you spent cap money to acquire free agents like JJo and Manning and do contract extensions for guys like Duane Brown, AJ, Foster? Yeah that makes sense.