Kawaan Short DT Purdue eval

[badboy]

Most of you know that I am a fan of big nose tackles for Texans. I have had opportunity to watch most of the noted higher ranked tackles. I have not watched Brandon WIlliams or Purdue's Kawaan Short. Today, Jan 1, 2012 Oklahoma St is playing Purdue and it is half time. First thing that stands out is why Short gets so much attention; no one else is worth a crap. At least during this half & I do realize it's not enough to evaluate on. Still, as noted in the Texans forum playoffs are where you expect layers to step up.

Nothing here folks is what I kept mumbling & wishing there was a movie or Jerry Springer to watch. In first half, I saw Short make a sack which was impressive, another good play and then a decent play where he actually took on more than one blocker. The sack was not from the NT position either so did not help me want to select him for that spot. As OK St is high powered O with a lot of passing, I expeted to see Short do some god thing and win me over. Did not happen.

Okay, second half starting..Purdue turns the ball over.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by badboy

Most of you know that I am a fan of big nose tackles for Texans. I have had opportunity to watch most of the noted higher ranked tackles. I have not watched Brandon WIlliams or Purdue's Kawaan Short. Today, Jan 1, 2012 Oklahoma St is playing Purdue and it is half time. First thing that stands out is why Short gets so much attention; no one else is worth a crap. At least during this half & I do realize it's not enough to evaluate on. Still, as noted in the Texans forum playoffs are where you expect layers to step up.

Nothing here folks is what I kept mumbling & wishing there was a movie or Jerry Springer to watch. In first half, I saw Short make a sack which was impressive, another good play and then a decent play where he actually took on more than one blocker. The sack was not from the NT position either so did not help me want to select him for that spot. As OK St is high powered O with a lot of passing, I expeted to see Short do some god thing and win me over. Did not happen.

Okay, second half starting..Purdue turns the ball over.

Game almost over, Purdue has 5 turnovers 55-7. With Purdue's defense on field a lot I expected Short to have a better showing...whoa he almost got to QB so that makes 4 plays. He did not seem to give up or tire significantly so that is a positive. I have moved him off my list of interests.

[Wolf6151]

That games a blowout, Nebraska v. Georgia is a much better game.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

That games a blowout, Nebraska v. Georgia is a much better game.

Yeah but with Jenkins out not interested in any of those players.

[Corrosion]

Lot of people want a DT especially you and BL .... but its obvious to anyone watching the Texans that the OL is flat out broken while the defense has been at least "ok"despite not getting much help from the offense.

I wouldnt mind a top tier DT .... but dont think they have the luxury of spending a #1 on the position because of all the needs elsewhere.

Even if Cody is not resigned , I see them going another direction and addiong to DT via mid round pick or FA.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Lot of people want a DT especially you and BL .... but its obvious to anyone watching the Texans that the OL is flat out broken while the defense has been at least "ok"despite not getting much help from the offense.

I wouldnt mind a top tier DT .... but dont think they have the luxury of spending a #1 on the position because of all the needs elsewhere.

Even if Cody is not resigned , I see them going another direction and addiong to DT via mid round pick or FA.

If you have read my mocks you should know I have not used a first for DT since Jesse Williams quickly climbed from our reach. I do think DT is priority one as our weakness there impacts so much else. LBs and DBs are impacted by NT as Oline are able to focus on Smith and Watt.
If you are going to come with Oline be specific as many say RT but imo that is a knee jerk reaction. Also, we must keep in mind if anyone we draft in first starts or is a back up. Again, I think there will be no offensive guard or tackle where we will pick that will start over Newton, Smith or Brown. Ain't happening. Jones looked very good at first then trailed off. I wonder if Newton's knee impacted Jones? I think Brooks will start most games RG 2013 and Jones will back up RG/ center. I am mocking Alvin Brooks who can play either guard as he will be on of the starters in '14 as Wade Smith gone.

I think ILB and WR2 are both next on priority. There will be no ILB avail round one so I go with a WR2 Patterson who should be available top of second round and I hope we trade down and get him picking up at least another third.
What is good for me is that my three needs can be taken care of in first three rounds although I'm predicting Brandon Williams in fourth and OLB in second.
What is "obvious" to me is that Schaub is more broken than the Oline but that is an opinion just like yours.

[ArlingtonTexan]

I think people have been trying to force bigger NT/DT in the Texans draft plans forever, but they don't seem to want one.

Anyway, i think there is a
better than not chance that Short is already gone by the time we draft (is 24 at the earliest no matter what?)

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Lot of people want a DT especially you and BL .... but its obvious to anyone watching the Texans that the OL is flat out broken while the defense has been at least "ok"despite not getting much help from the offense.

I wouldnt mind a top tier DT .... but dont think they have the luxury of spending a #1 on the position because of all the needs elsewhere.

Even if Cody is not resigned , I see them going another direction and addiong to DT via mid round pick or FA.

There are a couple of us, badboy is not one of them, who is intrigued by Short. He seems pretty active & dominant when in the game but he sits out alot, more than I care to see. Not sure if this is a conditioning problem or if just scheme & coaching decision, whatever the reason Purdue is a bad team & should be much better than it is with a quality player like Short.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

I think people have been trying to force bigger NT/DT in the Texans draft plans forever, but they don't seem to want one.

Anyway, i think there is a
better than not chance that Short is already gone by the time we draft (is 24 at the earliest no matter what?)

Just posted this in another thread -

Borderline/Early 2nd:

QB - Tyler Wilson, Mike Glennon
WR - Tavon Austin,Cordarrelle Patterson
OT - DJ Flucker
DE/OLB - Sam Montgomery, Chase Thomas, Kyle Van Noy
DT - Kawaan Short, Sharrif Floyd
CB - David Amerson,
SS - Kenny Vaccaro
FS - Eric Reed, Phillip Thomas

So I think he is there if Texans want him. Problem with position is that there are very few quality nose tackles out there. People maybe surprised to find out how much Cody is worth on the open market, that scares me a little somewhat forcing my hand. The position has hurt many 3-4 teams because of age or injury to starters, so teams often view them more as a commodity to fill a need.

[Corrosion]

@ Badboy .... I wasnt really talking to you in particular , just at the opinion that DT is a first round need. I'd like to upgrade the position just as much as the next guy , just dont see it being done in the first round with so many other issues.

I agree with Schaub being broken and probably the biggest reason this offense has faltered .... but he's got two years left on his deal at big $$$ making it near impossible to cut or trade him. Just have to make the best of a bad situation .... but he's not why Foster has been hemmed in the entire second half of the season or why they averaged ~3.8ypc rushing for the season. There have been far to many plays where defenders are playing behind the LOS .... thats on the OL.


Also the secondary is likely to lose a significant number of players - Quin , McCain , Ball , Demps , Keo.

ILB has to be addressed as well - Cushing coming back from a serious injury , who knows how he recovers. Dobbins and James will be FA's and .... Sharpton back on IR.


WR .... could use an upgrade too.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Just posted this in another thread -

So I think he is there if Texans want him. Problem with position is that there are very few quality nose tackles out there. People maybe surprised to find out how much Cody is worth on the open market, that scares me a little somewhat forcing my hand. The position has hurt many 3-4 teams because of age or injury to starters, so teams often view them more as a commodity to fill a need.

I have seen him rated higher, right at the sweet spot and way lower (for some strange reason). he has shown some pass rush skill 7/8 sack I think with enough bulk for Wade's system.

[Wolf6151]

@Corrosion, Schaub just signed a 4 yr. extension so has 4 yrs. left on his contract. Alot of his money is in the last year that he most likely will never see. I'm guessing he here for 2-3 yrs. more.

[Wolf6151]

I think the Senior Bowl will give us a good evaluation of Short, hopefully he doesn't do to well so that he's still there for us in the 1st.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

@Corrosion, Schaub just signed a 4 yr. extension so has 4 yrs. left on his contract. Alot of his money is in the last year that he most likely will never see. I'm guessing he here for 2-3 yrs. more.

Only two of those years are guaranteed with the final two being "team options" from what I understand.


Either way , we're not likely to be able to upgrade the position while Schaub is still on the books. We have to put Schaub in the best possible position to win in the mean time ... that means a very good OL , good recievers and .... very good defense.

[Wolf6151]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Only two of those years are guaranteed with the final two being "team options" from what I understand.


Either way , we're not likely to be able to upgrade the position while Schaub is still on the books. We have to put Schaub in the best possible position to win in the mean time ... that means a very good OL , good recievers and .... very good defense.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Short in the 1st and then O-line in the 2nd and 3rd. Solidify the O-line to fix the run game and pass protection, and give Schaub the maximum protection possible.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

Exactly what I'm thinking. Short in the 1st and then O-line in the 2nd and 3rd. Solidify the O-line to fix the run game and pass protection, and give Schaub the maximum protection possible.

Im thinking CB and to a lesser extent WR in the first and Im begining to realize that after Rhodes and Milliner the CB's arent first round talents.



I really like WR DeAndre Hopkins a Jr from Clemson ... I would take him late first if he was available over any of the DT's not named Lotulelei ,S.Williams or Jenkins.

[leebigeztx]

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

Exactly what I'm thinking. Short in the 1st and then O-line in the 2nd and 3rd. Solidify the O-line to fix the run game and pass protection, and give Schaub the maximum protection possible.

Jenkins is the best nt in the country imo. If they could get him in the 1st,that would be great. They could get a guy like chase thomas in the 3rd as ilb and in the 2nd patterson or take a chance on rodgers who is one of the most gifted wr in the draft. They also should draft a qb in the 1st 3 rounds if possible.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

@ Badboy .... I wasnt really talking to you in particular , just at the opinion that DT is a first round need. I'd like to upgrade the position just as much as the next guy , just dont see it being done in the first round with so many other issues.

I agree with Schaub being broken and probably the biggest reason this offense has faltered .... but he's got two years left on his deal at big $$$ making it near impossible to cut or trade him. Just have to make the best of a bad situation .... but he's not why Foster has been hemmed in the entire second half of the season or why they averaged ~3.8ypc rushing for the season. There have been far to many plays where defenders are playing behind the LOS .... thats on the OL.


Also the secondary is likely to lose a significant number of players - Quin , McCain , Ball , Demps , Keo.

ILB has to be addressed as well - Cushing coming back from a serious injury , who knows how he recovers. Dobbins and James will be FA's and .... Sharpton back on IR.


WR .... could use an upgrade too.

First, to clarify, I'm not angry with your comments just want to discuss all facets of issues & know you want that also. BL & I do want big NT & have repeatedly said why. We often disagree (include Rmartin65) about players and when to select. Our PMs often smoke, lol. What I do get a bit tired of is when posters say things like "Wade Phillips prefers smaller DTs" when it has been documented he has said since coming to Texans that he uses what he has. IIRC he has sign only one NT and that was Fangupo 6'1 323 who has a minor knee injury and was waived. Or "anyone watching knows it is (this positions) fault" without stating their reason for saying that. Derek Newton receives this a lot and Ben Jones sort of slides on criticism. Both are basically rookies and Jones was a 4th while Newton was a 7th. Seems like more would be expected of Jones.

Schaub contract is beautiful: 5 years $66.15m with 29.15 guaranteed and met by end of 2013. 66.15- 17.5 m bonus= 48.65 - $4.4 m (base '12)= $7.25 m which is his 2013 base. He is nonguaranteed 2014 thru '16 when base increases tremendously. He can be cut after next season and remaining bonus of $3.5 x 3 years remaining = $10.5m cap for 2014. Yes that is high but his cap for '13 is $10m base +3.5 bonus prorate if on roster. We can get rid of him, if needed.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

I have seen him rated higher, right at the sweet spot and way lower (for some strange reason). he has shown some pass rush skill 7/8 sack I think with enough bulk for Wade's system.

Are thse sacks coming from non Nose position? While an indicator does not mean JJ Watt would get 20 sacks playing our Nose. I agree he can clocg middle and probably be effective against run but can we not get that from a lower round?