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Old 12-31-2012   #1
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Default 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

After watching the last few games I can't help but think we need some early quality O-line help in the draft and quite possibly 2 guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I'm looking at some good OG's and good quality guys that can play OT/OG. I'm looking at Dallas Thomas, Gabe Jackson, Alvin Bailey, Kyle Long, Oday Aboushi, Xavier Nixon, possibly DJ Fluker, Lane Johnson, etc... A 4th round rookie, Jones, and 7th round virtual rookie, Newton, aren't getting it done on the right side and Wade Smith has been unimpressive to me this season regardless of his pro bowl nomination. If you had to pick 2 guys that will go in the 2nd or 3rd rounds that you think would fit the Texans, who you got, what round, and why? If the O-line doesn't get fixed then the running game sucks, passing game sucks, and your QB possibly gets hurt. I think it's past time to sink some quality picks into the O-line.
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Old 12-31-2012   #2
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

I'm on board - we need to improve the OL in the worst way, through the draft and FA.
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Old 12-31-2012   #3
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

Gotta ask yourself does Matt Schaub need his entire offensive line to be Pro Bowlers? If so he is probably the problem, given the fact he also has a Pro Bowl RB.

Then ask yourself how does Joe Marciano still have a job? Another kick return for a TD against Texan special teams. Unacceptable. Special teams are a collection of depth players, meaning either depth is a problem or its simply a case of poor coaching.

WR/TE position not including Andre, have no to little run after the catch ability. Clearly Texans lack athletic & playmaking ability across the board.

The loss of Cushing cannot be overstated, cause this in combination of losing Brice McCain (clearly Texan best nickle cover corner) that has led demise of once stout Texan D.

I'm convinced McCain will be resigned, Quin I'm not so sure? I actually think Texans have a chance to upgrade SS position & let Glover walk & draft Texas SS Kenny Vaccaro.

So given other needs, not withstanding my personal favorite Kawaan Short, there are too many other holes to focus solely on OL. Washington uses the same system, but has a mobile QB. Middle round picks generally are pretty rich investments for their style of player.
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Old 12-31-2012   #4
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

It's not the O-line. It's not the WR's. It's the goddam coach and QB.

There is not an O-line out there that doesn't give up sacks/pressure during the course of a game.

And Brooks, Jones and even Newton are all still young players. Really young. Texans aren't giving up on all those guys this early. Maybe take an OT higher in the draft but we are not about to draft a bunch of WR's and OL...Won't even matter with Schaub at QB...
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Old 12-31-2012   #5
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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It's not the O-line. It's not the WR's. It's the goddam coach and QB.
The right side of the line could stand to be upgraded. The WRs after AJ could stand to be upgraded. But I agree- Kubiak/Schaub is the biggest problem.

Problem is, I dont know who to hire/draft.
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Old 12-31-2012   #6
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
The right side of the line could stand to be upgraded. The WRs after AJ could stand to be upgraded. But I agree- Kubiak/Schaub is the biggest problem.

Problem is, I dont know who to hire/draft.
Yeah the Right side is not great...But if you look at teams around the league, no one has this super solid impenetrable OL. Everyone's OL gives up pressure and sacks. Look at people's WR's corps...There are a handful of teams (maybe not that many) with two top flight WR's and bunch of other good players behind them, a probowl RB AND a probowl TE with a good TE behind him...and oh yeah...a FB that can catch like a mofo too...

Man the Weapons are there if you have a QB that can dissect a defense.

It's just with the QB and coach the mistakes are magnified because when we give up a sack and a couple of pressures during the game we know we aren't going to get many more chances. A WR drops a pass and they are the worst ever because that was our one shining moment.

All QB's get hit and knocked on their ass during the course of the game. All lines give up sacks. Why do we expect our guy to remain completely clean during the course of a game...

And I'm not directing my post at you...BTW..just using your post as a spring board.
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Old 12-31-2012   #7
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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It's not the O-line. It's not the WR's. It's the goddam coach and QB.

There is not an O-line out there that doesn't give up sacks/pressure during the course of a game.

And Brooks, Jones and even Newton are all still young players. Really young. Texans aren't giving up on all those guys this early. Maybe take an OT higher in the draft but we are not about to draft a bunch of WR's and OL...Won't even matter with Schaub at QB...
How on earth can you just absolve the right side of the o-line? Especially when everyone and their freaking dog knew that the right side of the line was potentially going to be one of the problem areas they were going to have coming into the season? They went from 1 of the best o-lines in the league to average at best.

Of course there isn't an o-line out there that doesn't give up sacks & TFL's but the fact remains that we can't run the ball like we've been able to in YEARS past & the sacks they're giving up don't even give the qb a chance to complete a 5 step drop.... our offense as a whole has been pretty much shut down.

Explain how schaub's ****ty play is the cause of why we can't convert a 3rd and 2 power run play with 1 of the best backs in the league? Explain why we can't convert a TD an inch out from the goalline with another 1000 yd back from last year? Schaub has next to nothing to do with those instances man.
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Old 12-31-2012   #8
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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How on earth can you just absolve the right side of the o-line? Especially when everyone and their freaking dog knew that the right side of the line was potentially going to be one of the problem areas they were going to have coming into the season? They went from 1 of the best o-lines in the league to average at best.

Of course there isn't an o-line out there that doesn't give up sacks & TFL's but the fact remains that we can't run the ball like we've been able to in YEARS past & the sacks they're giving up don't even give the qb a chance to complete a 5 step drop.... our offense as a whole has been pretty much shut down.
Maybe we are watching different games. Arian has not played well this year. He has had some ok moments, but there have been big plays available that Arian hit in past seasons whereas he tripped on a marshmallow this year. Tate has been a non factor this year and that change of pace helped this team out a lot.



Quote:
Explain how schaub's ****ty play is the cause of why we can't convert a 3rd and 2 power run play with 1 of the best backs in the league? Explain why we can't convert a TD an inch out from the goalline with another 1000 yd back from last year? Schaub has next to nothing to do with those instances man.

I'll put it to you like this: when you are playing a team with a good QB that mixes up it's playcalling you don't sell out against the run because you are scared that QB is going to burn you if you do.

Also, we have only had 1 o r 2 good years of RZ and short yardage offense. This is not new.

You're rewritting history now. Do you not remember all the talk about how this scheme wasn't good for short yardage and red zone? We had one good Red Zone year with Arian and Leach.

But man, you shouldn't need them. Teams don't fear the QB, so they load up on the run. They aren't fooled by the play calling, so they load up on the run.
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Old 12-31-2012   #9
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Maybe we are watching different games. Arian has not played well this year. He has had some ok moments, but there have been big plays available that Arian hit in past seasons whereas he tripped on a marshmallow this year. Tate has been a non factor this year and that change of pace helped this team out a lot.






I'll put it to you like this: when you are playing a team with a good QB that mixes up it's playcalling you don't sell out against the run because you are scared that QB is going to burn you if you do.

Also, we have only had 1 o r 2 good years of RZ and short yardage offense. This is not new.

You're rewritting history now. Do you not remember all the talk about how this scheme wasn't good for short yardage and red zone? We had one good Red Zone year with Arian and Leach.

But man, you shouldn't need them. Teams don't fear the QB, so they load up on the run. They aren't fooled by the play calling, so they load up on the run.
Teams haven't necessarily been loading up the box on us anymore than they have in years past though & Arian was still ripping off huge chunks in the run game last year with ease.

& It's not just been the red zone, it's been all over the field.

Schaub was here last year...
Kubiak was here last year...
Arian was here last year...
& we ran the same offense.

So then, you have to ask yourself, what has changed from last year besides our schedule? The only logical answer to that is the o-line.



& again, i'm not removing schaub from the equation, but it's undeniable that the o-line, right side in particular, has been issue this season.

Even when we were winning, Foster was still hovering around 3 yds. per carry & since the Patriots game, he's been getting stuffed & hit in the backfield for TFL's moreso than any season prior. The line as a whole just hasn't played well this year.
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Old 12-31-2012   #10
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

Are we talking just the first round or the whole draft? Ain't no way they draft an O-linemen in the first unless there is some super hot guard that has fallen a long way. We did reach in the first for a left tackle, but after that it's been all defense all the time in the first round. I don't think that changes much here unless you believe that the staff is going to pull the trigger on a WR in the first.

After that though I could surely see a 2nd or 3rd round pick being used on the best available O-linemen.
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Old 12-31-2012   #11
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Are we talking just the first round or the whole draft? Ain't no way they draft an O-linemen in the first unless there is some super hot guard that has fallen a long way. We did reach in the first for a left tackle, but after that it's been all defense all the time in the first round. I don't think that changes much here unless you believe that the staff is going to pull the trigger on a WR in the first.

After that though I could surely see a 2nd or 3rd round pick being used on the best available O-linemen.
Just a quick question for you, how did that reach for Left Tackle work out?
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Old 12-31-2012   #12
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

I'm talking about using 2 of the 3 picks that we have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds combined to solidify the O-line with some high quality talent. I still want Kawann Short-DT in the 1st round. I'm thinking maybe Gabe Jackson-OG 2nd round and Ricky Wagner-OT 3rd round, or Dallas Thomas-OG/OT 2nd round and Alvin Bailey-OG 3rd round. Who you got, when, and why?


While I agree that Kubiak and Schaub are the bigger issue, each of their contracts has been extended recently so unfortunately neither is going anywhere for a while. We need to fix the problems we can.
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Old 12-31-2012   #13
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Teams haven't necessarily been loading up the box on us anymore than they have in years past though & Arian was still ripping off huge chunks in the run game last year with ease.

& It's not just been the red zone, it's been all over the field.

Schaub was here last year...
Kubiak was here last year...
Arian was here last year...
& we ran the same offense.

So then, you have to ask yourself, what has changed from last year besides our schedule? The only logical answer to that is the o-line.



& again, i'm not removing schaub from the equation, but it's undeniable that the o-line, right side in particular, has been issue this season.

Even when we were winning, Foster was still hovering around 3 yds. per carry & since the Patriots game, he's been getting stuffed & hit in the backfield for TFL's moreso than any season prior. The line as a whole just hasn't played well this year.
To say that because so and so player remains does little to support your position. Schaub was here but has not played well, especially last 4 games. Now he is playing better than our QB last season's last four but he keep that in perspective.

Until the week of Newton's knee injury, he had allowed 3 sacks only. He is not great in run blocking but up to that point IIRC the average run to right was almost the same as to the left where our Pro Bowler resides. He gets almost zero help from Jones at RG who is playing better than expected. Our Pro Bowler RB has yards and attempts but his avg is 4 which is hardly probowler material. If you are going to criticize Newton (and I am good with that if fair) how about the wide open pass that our Pro Bowl WR AJ dropped that was a perfect pass in his hands? All I am saying if you give one player a "whoopsie" give the same amount to Newton. Also, do we have any evidence the patella has healed 100%? At least Derek is on the field unlike Tate for a hammy. Two attempts for 7? Really.
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Old 12-31-2012   #14
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
The right side of the line could stand to be upgraded. The WRs after AJ could stand to be upgraded. But I agree- Kubiak/Schaub is the biggest problem.

Problem is, I dont know who to hire/draft.
This is the problem the Three Amigos had in discussing replacing Schaub last two seasons. Who do you get? None of the draftees impess me. I am ready to allow Yates to start and see what he can do. Won't happen but he would be my starter 2013 until he flubs.
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Old 12-31-2012   #15
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I'm talking about using 2 of the 3 picks that we have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds combined to solidify the O-line with some high quality talent. I still want Kawann Short-DT in the 1st round. I'm thinking maybe Gabe Jackson-OG 2nd round and Ricky Wagner-OT 3rd round, or Dallas Thomas-OG/OT 2nd round and Alvin Bailey-OG 3rd round. Who you got, when, and why?


While I agree that Kubiak and Schaub are the bigger issue, each of their contracts has been extended recently so unfortunately neither is going anywhere for a while. We need to fix the problems we can.
Alvin Bailey declared last week and I have him in third at our pick. He swaps between both LG and RG during the game as a regular course which I cannot remember seeing before. His play this season was impacted by the turmoil with the offensive coaches and he seemed to not give 100% which imo has impacted his ranking. He may climb into second with good combine.

If I can get a trade with Miami (Tate who is not helping me for second (#43) and a third (#82), I'd take N.Carolina's RT Brennan Williams in third. I think Williams is going to climb but am hopeful he will not go or do much at combine due to his repairing injury. Another possible landing place for Tate is San Francisco second (#69) & third (#91).

Something tp think about is why Tate got reps over Forsett 63/374 6 per carry? Was Kubiak shopping?
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Old 12-31-2012   #16
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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After watching the last few games I can't help but think we need some early quality O-line help in the draft and quite possibly 2 guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I'm looking at some good OG's and good quality guys that can play OT/OG. I'm looking at Dallas Thomas, Gabe Jackson, Alvin Bailey, Kyle Long, Oday Aboushi, Xavier Nixon, possibly DJ Fluker, Lane Johnson, etc... A 4th round rookie, Jones, and 7th round virtual rookie, Newton, aren't getting it done on the right side and Wade Smith has been unimpressive to me this season regardless of his pro bowl nomination. If you had to pick 2 guys that will go in the 2nd or 3rd rounds that you think would fit the Texans, who you got, what round, and why? If the O-line doesn't get fixed then the running game sucks, passing game sucks, and your QB possibly gets hurt. I think it's past time to sink some quality picks into the O-line.
The right side is young and only going to get better. I have no doubt that's how Kubes and co feel. We may take a flyer in the mid to late rounds on a OL if one we really like is available. Some good names you got there although Fluker got knocked of my list earlier this year. Just don't see him as a fit here.

I really like Cyril Richardson (#68, 6-4, 335) out of Baylor. Local product that hasn't got a lot of national attention but has played really well for the last two years. Very mobile and athletic for a guy his size. If you want a bigger guy that fits this offense I'd go with him over Fluker especially for the price.
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Old 12-31-2012   #17
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Alvin Bailey declared last week and I have him in third at our pick. He swaps between both LG and RG during the game as a regular course which I cannot remember seeing before. His play this season was impacted by the turmoil with the offensive coaches and he seemed to not give 100% which imo has impacted his ranking. He may climb into second with good combine.

If I can get a trade with Miami (Tate who is not helping me for second (#43) and a third (#82), I'd take N.Carolina's RT Brennan Williams in third. I think Williams is going to climb but am hopeful he will not go or do much at combine due to his repairing injury. Another possible landing place for Tate is San Francisco second (#69) & third (#91).

Something tp think about is why Tate got reps over Forsett 63/374 6 per carry? Was Kubiak shopping?
I've been all over Alvin Bailey too. His size/athleticism and run blocking are very similar to Duane Brown imo. He gets way out for screens, and definitely gets up to LBers quickly. I'm assuming he's not a great pass blocker though, being a OG and all but I think he's a match at the right value (3rd or 3rd comp). If the line were something like Brown-Bailey-Myers-Brooks-Newton that's a very big, athletic line.
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Old 12-31-2012   #18
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Default Re: 2013 Draft and the Offensive Line

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
The right side is young and only going to get better. I have no doubt that's how Kubes and co feel. We may take a flyer in the mid to late rounds on a OL if one we really like is available. Some good names you got there although Fluker got knocked of my list earlier this year. Just don't see him as a fit here.

I really like Cyril Richardson (#68, 6-4, 335) out of Baylor. Local product that hasn't got a lot of national attention but has played really well for the last two years. Very mobile and athletic for a guy his size. If you want a bigger guy that fits this offense I'd go with him over Fluker especially for the price.
Just as an FYI, if I took Fluker in the draft I'd move him inside to OG. He's a bit slow at OT for the NFL but would most likely make a great OG for our system. I should have clarified that in my original post, and I think several of the guys I listed can play both OT and OG.
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