Walter's Current Mock

[Wolf6151]

Here's how I evaluate the 3 DT's that fit our system, Jesse Williams, Sylvester Williams, and Kawann Short.

J. Williams, I see him as a guy with great strength who can hold the double teams and the LOS or push a single blocker backwards and collapse the pocket though he's not a good penetrating NT because he lacks the athletic quickness. To me he's more of a traditional brickwall NT with good straight ahead speed but lacks lateral agility to make the tackle on plays that don't come right at him. Great strength, great anchor, good straight line speed, poor lateral agility/quickness. He's #3 on my list.

S. Williams, I see him more as a 4-3 UT with great quickness, great swim move, great penetrating ability, lateral agility, speed, and athleticism, but he lacks some strength to hold up to double teams or collapse the pocket consistently. Luckily once he gets on an NFL strength and conditioning program he'll gain that core strength in his legs to anchor and hold up to double teams, but it might take a year. He's more of a quick penetrating NT, in our 1 gap system, that can pressure the QB, play the run well, and pursue a play that doesn't come right at him. He's #2 on my list.

K. Short, he's a combo of the 2 Williams, he's got the strength in his core and legs to hold the double teams and collapse the pocket against single blockers. He's got enough quickness and lateral agility to penetrate and play the run and also has a 2nd gear when in the clear that he's got good speed and able to chase a play that doesn't come his way. S. Williams is better at penetrating, J. Williams is better at holding the LOS, while K. Short has got both skills and will get even better in an NFL conditioning program. Imagine a strong penetrating big nasty lined up next to JJ Watt, it would take 4 O-linemen to properly block both of them. He's #1 on my list.


JMO.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

Here's how I evaluate the 3 DT's that fit our system, Jesse Williams, Sylvester Williams, and Kawann Short.

J. Williams, I see him as a guy with great strength who can hold the double teams and the LOS or push a single blocker backwards and collapse the pocket though he's not a good penetrating NT because he lacks the athletic quickness. To me he's more of a traditional brickwall NT with good straight ahead speed but lacks lateral agility to make the tackle on plays that don't come right at him. Great strength, great anchor, good straight line speed, poor lateral agility/quickness. He's #3 on my list.

S. Williams, I see him more as a 4-3 UT with great quickness, great swim move, great penetrating ability, lateral agility, speed, and athleticism, but he lacks some strength to hold up to double teams or collapse the pocket consistently. Luckily once he gets on an NFL strength and conditioning program he'll gain that core strength in his legs to anchor and hold up to double teams, but it might take a year. He's more of a quick penetrating NT, in our 1 gap system, that can pressure the QB, play the run well, and pursue a play that doesn't come right at him. He's #2 on my list.

K. Short, he's a combo of the 2 Williams, he's got the strength in his core and legs to hold the double teams and collapse the pocket against single blockers. He's got enough quickness and lateral agility to penetrate and play the run and also has a 2nd gear when in the clear that he's got good speed and able to chase a play that doesn't come his way. S. Williams is better at penetrating, J. Williams is better at holding the LOS, while K. Short has got both skills and will get even better in an NFL conditioning program. Imagine a strong penetrating big nasty lined up next to JJ Watt, it would take 4 O-linemen to properly block both of them. He's #1 on my list.


JMO.

I agree with everything you said here except that Williams is a "great" penetrator. I think he is good but defiantly not great. Ive said this before, The one thing that I really like about Short is his ability to disengage from OL and attack the ball with a burst. It's very Watt like. IMO that is what makes Watt so special and is the biggest reason I like Short. Again JMO.

[Wolf6151]

Originally Posted by mussop

I agree with everything you said here except that Williams is a "great" penetrator. I think he is good but defiantly not great. Ive said this before, The one thing that I really like about Short is his ability to disengage from OL and attack the ball with a burst. It's very Watt like. IMO that is what makes Watt so special and is the biggest reason I like Short. Again JMO.

For a NT I think Sylvester's penetrating ability if very good/great. He's got a great swim move. I agree with you about Short and would love to see him lined up next to JJ and Antonio.

[76Texan]

I think the Texans need to be in a Win-Now mode.

They should go BPA at a few key areas they think they need the most.

If they find a 3-down NT, they should go for it.
Or a big ILB that can take on linemen as well as having the smart and the ability to cover TEs.
Or a big safety that can blanket a TE, allowing Quin to be the fifth DB.
Or a monster OT, allowing Newton to be the swing tackle.
If they don't like Brandon Brook enough to be a starter, they need to find a good one there.

As much as I like some players in the draft at other position, I don't think they can add enough overall value to the team to make it more complete.

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by beerlover

paper tiger? not from what I've watched. Kawaan & Sylvester's numbers are almost spot on with exception Short has done it for four years compared to Williams two. I also feel the Big 10 is a much tougher conference than Atlantic Coast. Short was named Second Team AP All-American not Williams. He finished 42 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, six sacks, four PBUs, four blocked kicks, two fumbles recovered and one forced. He finished the 2012 regular season tied for fourth in the Big Ten in tackles for loss per game and tied for fifth in sacks. Short is eighth all-time at Purdue in both career tackles for loss (48.0) and sacks (18.5) and has blocked more career field goals (six) than any other player in school history.

That is not limited production from a nose tackle. Limited production & paper tiger would apply more to Cody, I know he has been injured but staying healthy is also a part of the game. I mean 17 tackles for the season & we don't have a problem, hey I know lets rush to resign him cause we need his production. No sacks. No blocks. No tackles for loss. Give me a freaking break. Maybe Mitchell is getting most of the nose reps lets check out his numbers? Wow, 28 tackles, 11 more than Cody. Unfortunately no sacks, no swatts but hey he did force one fumble.

They say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it

I think it's a little dishonest to gloss over a few tackle statistics when anyone who watches is pretty keenly aware that Cody/Mitchell are the first guys off the field when they start switching it up. For their pay, these guys produce decent numbers in a system that doesn't favor them. I'd much rather see them continue after pass rushers, pass coverage guys or big time skill position players....in the first round anyway.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

I think it's a little dishonest to gloss over a few tackle statistics when anyone who watches is pretty keenly aware that Cody/Mitchell are the first guys off the field when they start switching it up. For their pay, these guys produce decent numbers in a system that doesn't favor them. I'd much rather see them continue after pass rushers, pass coverage guys or big time skill position players....in the first round anyway.

Was in response to limited production report concerning Short to simply demonstrate the contrary nothing dishonest about that more like factual.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I think the Texans need to be in a Win-Now mode.

They should go BPA at a few key areas they think they need the most.

If they find a 3-down NT, they should go for it.
Or a big ILB that can take on linemen as well as having the smart and the ability to cover TEs.
Or a big safety that can blanket a TE, allowing Quin to be the fifth DB.
Or a monster OT, allowing Newton to be the swing tackle.
If they don't like Brandon Brook enough to be a starter, they need to find a good one there.

As much as I like some players in the draft at other position, I don't think they can add enough overall value to the team to make it more complete.

Couldn't agree more. This is how I always approach the draft. Don't understand why people lock in on certain positions every round. Just because you see a certain position as the biggest need doesn't mean that has to be your first pick.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by mussop

Couldn't agree more. This is how I always approach the draft. Don't understand why people lock in on certain positions every round. Just because you see a certain position as the biggest need doesn't mean that has to be your first pick.

Speaking for myself only, I try to target who I feel are impact players. Which there should be a higher degree of competence in relationship to specific draft grade. Hence a first round pick should net most immediate (usually need) & long term result (based against peers)

[badboy]

Originally Posted by mussop

Something to consider is what Wade expects out the DT position. I say DT because I don't see our middle guy as a NT. If it were a traditional NT position would Cody or Mitchell be playing there? I know he has had bigger DT's in the past but in recent years he seems to have adjusted that position to suite smaller more athletic DT's like Ratliff and Cody. Cody has been there more because he is the best available for Wade. I have little doubt Wade would replace him if the resources were available to him. I suspect (just my opinion) it would be with a player more like Ratliff than a NT type.

Bolded is my position. Wade has stated he makes do with what he has and when he arrived more glaring issues like both starting corners and both starting safeties needed improving. Moving Quin to SS, Signing Manning (FS) & Joseph to CB1 resolved three but ate some big cap dollars. CB2 with Jackson took a while and caused Phillips to add FAs to alternate and support KJ. Now is the time to replace Cody as several has mention and has been my mantra. Health, age & expiring contract gives Phillips perfect storm to make a move with low cost draft selection. He had no choice but to adjust his scheme to utylize Cody and Mitchell. He will now have a choice.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Speaking for myself only, I try to target who I feel are impact players. Which there should be a higher degree of competence in relationship to specific draft grade. Hence a first round pick should net most immediate (usually need) & long term result (based against peers)

Just to expound on post in a little more detail, need is a primary decision maker however you choose to view it. Key is to identify the best player available for your position of need, he will naturally fit (like JJ Watt) to become a successful player in system. In my example, Short, best player available @ position of need is off the board by time Texans select, I move onto next best player available @ position of need. Free agency is always on the back burner & can impact need/pick. Following this train of thought, if Quin is not resigned, SS becomes a bigger need, at the same time I would try to actually upgrade position. Suddenly Texas, SS, Kenny Vaccaro becomes my target. He is the complete package & could become more than solid, possibly elite? Two examples, of two different first round grades/prospects who fill specific need for Texans. Its a fluid process & what makes accurate player evaluation so important as team needs evolve.

BL

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Just to expound on post in a little more detail, need is a primary decision maker however you choose to view it. Key is to identify the best player available for your position of need, he will naturally fit (like JJ Watt) to become a successful player in system. In my example, Short, best player available @ position of need is off the board by time Texans select, I move onto next best player available @ position of need. Free agency is always on the back burner & can impact need/pick. Following this train of thought, if Quin is not resigned, SS becomes a bigger need, at the same time I would try to actually upgrade position. Suddenly Texas, SS, Kenny Vaccaro becomes my target. He is the complete package & could become more than solid, possibly elite? Two examples, of two different first round grades/prospects who fill specific need for Texans. Its a fluid process & what makes accurate player evaluation so important as team needs evolve.

BL

I dont disagree with this at all .... and why at this point in time I dont have NT high on my list.
Right now we just dont know what spots we will have to fill but considering the possible volume of losses in the secondary , thats my focus for thew time being.

This far out things can change in a dime.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by mussop

Couldn't agree more. This is how I always approach the draft. Don't understand why people lock in on certain positions every round. Just because you see a certain position as the biggest need doesn't mean that has to be your first pick.

This is why I would go with a WR in rd 1. Not only is WR a need but there should be a high level talent WR when the Texans are picking.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

This is why I would go with a WR in rd 1. Not only is WR a need but there should be a high level talent WR when the Texans are picking.

Im torn between WR & CB.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

Im torn between WR & CB.

WR for me as I expected more from Posey and Jean today. If you are open, Qb will throw it at you, maybe not to you but over or under you.


After Colts, Mitchell starts over Cody next game.

[leebigeztx]

The texans need to seriously think about a qb in the 2nd or 3rd. We see matt schaub and his warts along with the come up of luck. Even though he's a better qb than smith, it really hinders your team and playcaller with a physically limited qb. We can talk about all the other positions and they need attention also, but that qb spotis the most important one. In 2 yrs, that new qb needs to be ready to take over for matt.

[steelbtexan]

I'm leaning more and more towards Bray in the 1st rd.

He has the ability to be a top 5 pick. If he wasn't a bit immature and had bad footwork he wouldn't be available at 27 or so. Thinking about it trading back into the 1st rd and picking Patterson to go with Bray would be an exciting duo for the next decade and help prolong AJ's career.


This will never happen with BoB/Rick/Gary in charge.

[NCTexan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

I'm leaning more and more towards Bray in the 1st rd.

He has the ability to be a top 5 pick. If he wasn't a bit immature and had bad footwork he wouldn't be available at 27 or so. Thinking about it trading back into the 1st rd and picking Patterson to go with Bray would be an exciting duo for the next decade and help prolong AJ's career.


This will never happen with BoB/Rick/Gary in charge.

The kid is extremely immature. I don't think he'll mentally hold up in the NFL.

[TimeKiller]

Didn't want to start a whole new thread over it but here's one I did with another WR 1st.


1- Da'Rick Rogers, WR, Tennessee Tech
6'3" 206 lbs., 4.52-40

Big time WR who falls because of character concerns (mary jane). I believe Andre can mentor him to be a pro, he will open up the offense for everyone else with his play making and the Texans offense will have it's next cornerstone.

2- Mike Glennon, QB, NC State
6'5" 232 lbs., 5.12-40

Scouting report reads he is in need of technique to better himself but when you see him play, he's a big, mobile QB who can sling it. With all respect to Yates and Schaub, the Texans need to start taking chances at getting big time QBs on the roster.

3- Cornellius (Tank) Carradine, DE, Florida State
6'4" 265 lbs., 4.75-40

Talented pass rusher who falls due to injury. May be the end of next year before he's fully healthy but I think he will upgrade the group and soften the blow if Barwin leaves. Definitely has a natural pass rushing ability and a great body to go with it, easily strong enough to handle the edge in the run game.

3a- Alvin Bailey, OG, Arkansas
6'5" 315 lbs., 5.32-40

Needs to improve pass protection but is a big, mobile guard who can get to the 2nd level and pancake defenders. Texans continue to add size and strength to their OL.

4- Zeke Motta, FS, Notre Dame
6'2" 215 lbs., 4.65-40

This is the first of many picks designed to improve the Texans' awful special teams. This isn't Teo or Nix but this guy did play an awful lot for a really good defense. Racked up a ton of tackles, certified run stopper in-the-box type who offers enough coverage ability to be the 3rd safety for the dime packages.

5- Kevin Reddick, ILB, North Carolina
6'2" 240 lbs., 4.75-40

I think this might be a little late to get him but here's another run stopper who plays aggresive, downhill, thumper LBer. Would boost special teams as well.

6- Dustin Hopkins, K, Florida State
6'2" 190 lbs., 4.78-40

The NCAA FBS all-time kick scorer with 459 points. Yes, please and thank you.

6a- Ryan Allen, P, Louisiana Tech
6'2" 215 lbs.

Boomer includes a long of 85 lol yes, please and thank you. Special teams upgrade, complete.

7- Philip Lutzenkirchen, TE, Auburn
6'4" 250 lbs., 4.82-40

Caught 44 passes, 14 were for TDs. Not very athletic but a decent blocker who is capable of lining up at H-back. Plus his last name is really cool.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by NCTexan

The kid is extremely immature. I don't think he'll mentally hold up in the NFL.

34 TD's
12 Ints

Against SEC defenses, has big arm and is mobile enough. Think Big Ben

Terrible HC

IF throwing beer bottles at a car with your roommate is the worst thing that he did, then I must have been beyond immature in college.

I'm more worried about his footwork and film study habits. Like I said if there weren't risks he would be a top 5 pick.

What makes you think he wont mentally hold up? Are there things that I dont know about? I've watched a bunch of his games and Bray is extremely talented.

[NCTexan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

34 TD's
12 Ints

Against SEC defenses, has big arm and is mobile enough. Think Big Ben

Terrible HC

IF throwing beer bottles at a car with your roommate is the worst thing that he did, then I must have been beyond immature in college.

I'm more worried about his footwork and film study habits. Like I said if there weren't risks he would be a top 5 pick.

What makes you think he wont mentally hold up? Are there things that I dont know about? I've watched a bunch of his games and Bray is extremely talented.

I think he has the physical tools for sure. It's more like what you mention with the film study habits. He just never comes off as wanting to really be the best to me. I remember (granted this was two years ago) the bowl game against UNC and how he acted during that. That sticks out in my mind.

If we somehow get him, I truly hope I am wrong. Like you said, he has the tools. Part of it is probably my disillusionment with the QB class this year. It seems really weak.


Edit: I am also pretty new at looking at college guys, so by no means do I mean to sound like an expert. I also haven't watched a ton on him, so I fully admit there is a high chance I am wrong.