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Old 12-27-2012   #41
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I agree completely about heavy investment in o-line. I'm a firm believer that games are won/lost in the trenches. A great line can make a decent RB good and a good back great. And then with a statue QB, we need all the protection that we can get.

It seems pretty evident that many of this season's problems originate directly from platooning lineman on the right side. Arian is not looking anything like he did last year, and Schaub is getting David Carr syndrome by going fetal position when he just hears footsteps.



I agree. I'm not a cap expert and have no thoughts on managing it. There were some folks around here that were working numbers as food for thought.

My main point was that the Texans never even entertained the idea, and according to Bob Allen, Manning had the Texans as no. 1 on his list but the Texans would not even grant him a meeting to discuss it. I don't think it was cap concerns as much as it is being married to Schaub. JMO obviously.

Good point on Schaub, too. I'm not sure who would have been interested in him at that point.

Hopefully the boy rises up for the playoffs and proves everyone wrong!
The 3 loses were games in which we lost the LOS battle. Especially the game against the Vikes.

Blame Schaub for falling after wiffs, blame Foster for running in to a pile or falling every chance he gets, but they had one thing in common, the OL play.

When we were blowing opponents out, the O-Line was generally mauling the other team.

If the OL doesn't get it together then Foster will get hit behind the LOS every other play, his patience is a virtue with solid OL play, but with out the OL playing well, it results in lost yardage.

In Indy and the playoffs, I think you will be able to tell how the game will go withing a series or two based on two things. How is the O-Line Playing, and are the TE's involved in the game. In our loses and tight games we struggled with one of those two, or both issues, which took away deep drops for the longer throws, play action and the bootleg, and the running game.
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Old 12-27-2012   #42
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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The 3 loses were games in which we lost the LOS battle. Especially the game against the Vikes.

Blame Schaub for falling after wiffs, blame Foster for running in to a pile or falling every chance he gets, but they had one thing in common, the OL play.

When we were blowing opponents out, the O-Line was generally mauling the other team.

If the OL doesn't get it together then Foster will get hit behind the LOS every other play, his patience is a virtue with solid OL play, but with out the OL playing well, it results in lost yardage.

In Indy and the playoffs, I think you will be able to tell how the game will go withing a series or two based on two things. How is the O-Line Playing, and are the TE's involved in the game. In our loses and tight games we struggled with one of those two, or both issues, which took away deep drops for the longer throws, play action and the bootleg, and the running game.
Great post. MSR

I agree completely. I get a feel of how games are going to play out in the first quarter. I'm not Nostradamus or anything, but when our o-line is getting manhandled early on, it is usually a bad sign of things to come.

I told my wife early in all three losses that I had a bad feeling about those games, and it was because of the lack of running lanes and pressure on the QB. It helps me to detach my emotions and just watch the game instead of being angry about it.
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Old 12-27-2012   #43
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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I agree completely about heavy investment in o-line. I'm a firm believer that games are won/lost in the trenches. A great line can make a decent RB good and a good back great. And then with a statue QB, we need all the protection that we can get.
In the coming offseason , I'd like to see them pick up two stud OL , one at RT and another inside be it thru the draft or FA.

Im looking at a second round pick on an OG in most of my mock scenario's sandwiched by WR and CB one way or another in rounds 1 & 3.
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Old 12-27-2012   #44
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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In the coming offseason , I'd like to see them pick up two stud OL , one at RT and another inside be it thru the draft or FA.

Im looking at a second round pick on an OG in most of my mock scenario's sandwiched by WR and CB one way or another in rounds 1 & 3.
Drafting rookies means sacrificing half a season or more of reliable offense. It takes a lot of reps in the ZBS before it works. I think it was Texans Chick who made the point that rotating the right guards was detrimental to the overall line performance.
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Old 12-27-2012   #45
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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Drafting rookies means sacrificing half a season or more of reliable offense. It takes a lot of reps in the ZBS before it works. I think it was Texans Chick who made the point that rotating the right guards was detrimental to the overall line performance.
Whats detrimental to the OL's performance is their lack of ability .... Smith has gone downhill fast , Newton is a good pass protector but way below average as a run blocker .... and the rookie mistakes made by Jones have been many.

What they have done thus far is a testiment to how well Brown and Myers have played from start to finish.

Getting veteran FA's is likely going to be too expensive for this team as its already up against the cap .... so do you upgrade or just stand pat when standing pat isnt good enough ?
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Old 12-28-2012   #46
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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Whats detrimental to the OL's performance is their lack of ability .... Smith has gone downhill fast , Newton is a good pass protector but way below average as a run blocker .... and the rookie mistakes made by Jones have been many.

What they have done thus far is a testiment to how well Brown and Myers have played from start to finish.

Getting veteran FA's is likely going to be too expensive for this team as its already up against the cap .... so do you upgrade or just stand pat when standing pat isnt good enough ?
It depends on how much upside is there. I am pleased with Jones' performance as a rookie so far, and Brooks has even more natural ability. We agree on Smith, so one of those guys can slide over to left guard.
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Old 12-28-2012   #47
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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It depends on how much upside is there. I am pleased with Jones' performance as a rookie so far, and Brooks has even more natural ability. We agree on Smith, so one of those guys can slide over to left guard.
If Brooks works out , I have no problem moving one of he or Jones to the left side.

In my first mock for 2013 I have the Texans taking Kyle Long in round two - he can play either goard spot and right tackle. If Brooks and Jones can man the guard positions , Long would probably send Newton to a backup spot.


Getting rid of Wade Smith would also save the team about $3m twards next years cap with about $750k in dead money.
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Old 12-28-2012   #48
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

Interesting topics. A few weeks ago, the thought of trading or releasing Schaub would have induced the following from me -->

Now, not so much. The guy has been a shrinking violet the last half of the season.

He is pretty good when ideal conditions exist. Outside of that, he stinks.

For the Texans offense with Matt at the helm, it's absolutely vital that the running game is working well enough to keep the defense honest.

On the plus side, he is intelligent, works his tail off, knows the offense backwards and forwards, is usually accurate in the short and medium throws, and in general gets the ball to the correct guy on a given play. He is risk averse...sometimes too much but I do prefer that he gets rid of the ball rather than throws a ton of picks.

On the downside, his injury has taken him from an immobile guy who can at least avoid the rush and buy some time to an absolute statue. While he can at least "jog" toward the sideline, his footwork is such that he can't maneuver away from rushers any longer or so it appears to me. He is almost a ZERO threat to run, so defenses just need to drop 8 on 3rd and long and force Schaub to hold the ball until sacked, or force him to move outside the pocket and toss it away, or worst case he dumps it to a safety valve short of the marker. And since he can't run, the defenders just stick to their guy like glue. No need to have a spy or even have DB's worry about a running QB.

His arm strength has to be in the bottom 5 of starting NFL qb's, and how many times has AJ or another guy been running wide open only to have to stand there and wait for the ball to be delivered leaving the defender plenty of time to catch up. It's probably not too much worse than Joe Montana, but the difference is Montana found his guy earlier in the route and hit him in stride. Schaub waits too long to release the ball on those deep throws.

The last major problem I see is between his ears. It's anecdotal I know - but it sure seems like the bigger the game, the worse he plays (in general). The next two games will tell the tale on this I believe. If he comes back and plays like a good QB should in these types of games, then he can redeem himself. In short, the next two games are the biggest of his career and for his legacy as a long term NFL starter.

Those are his major two issues. He could also do a better job leading guys properly for better YAC as well. Too many times, he throws behind the WR, although as I mentioned earlier his accuracy overall is pretty good 20 yards and in so I'm not going to pick too much there.

As to his trade value, the big problem is here is a guy that's on the downside of his career now, coming off a major foot injury which is obviously impacting his play. Combine that with a contract that I don't think is currently appropriate for his play and I am not sure he has much value. Maybe a team like AZ would be willing to cough up a mid-rounder for him? I just don't see an easy #1 like some of you do. Not with that contract. Maybe if he would re-structure first.

As to Alex smith, I think he is Schaub-like in that he probably can't completely carry a team, but better and younger. He is a little better everywhere - a little better arm strength, a little better mobility, a little younger, etc. And yes, I have watched him quite a bit. He has really come on in the last two seasons, and personally I would play him over Colin K. It's close, but Alex is a guy (like Schaub) who doesn't make a ton of mistakes, and perhaps is also a bit to risk averse, but again give me that over a gun slinger that throws a 2 picks a game on average.

It's an interesting thought. Doubt it happens, but it's something to at least discuss if I am the Texans brass.
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Old 12-30-2012   #49
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

I'm not sure what he's worth now, but his value keeps going down with each game. He's got a team friendly contract so I think Rick Smith should at least get on the phone and do some asking around. Maybe the KC Chiefs, for their 2nd and 3rd?
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Old 12-30-2012   #50
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

I'd pay someone to take Schaub. Maybe we could give him away if we bundled him with a third round pick, though the chance to pick another white TE might be too much for Kubiak to part with.
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Old 12-30-2012   #51
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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I made a joke to my friend who is a Buffalo fan a few weeks ago. The joke was that some team will be dumb enough to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Alex Smith and the team dumb enough to do that would be the Bills.

Then I come to my own home board and see people who are advocating trading for Alex ****ing Smith. Alex Smith was benched for a reason, the guy sucks. People keep saying he's mobile? No, he's not mobile. He had one run in a playoff game that everybody remembers. Harbaugh made Smith look like a winner and now he is sending him packing as soon as he had Kaepernick ready.

Schaub has no trade value, this whole thread is nulll in void.
Everything you said about Alex Smith is exactly right....and he's still twice as good as Schaub.
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Old 12-30-2012   #52
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

Schaub's trade value....



A bucket of chicken and a can of Spam?
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Old 12-30-2012   #53
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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Schaub's trade value....



A bucket of chicken and a can of Spam?

I'm pulling the can of Spam off the table. Did you see Schaub play today?
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Old 12-30-2012   #54
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

It's not just trading him that's the problem. Who do you replace him with?
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Old 12-30-2012   #55
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

He has no trade value firstly because he is reliant upon the system. Without Kubiak's system, Schaub is not a starting caliber QB. Secondly, he has minimal arm strength, he has no mobility to speak of, and has no pocket presence. Lastly, he's just not a good player and why would any team want to trade for him? Teams are having success finding young QBs in the draft who come in ready to play in a pass first style offense and can make plays with their feet. Schaub offers no dynamism and unless he's playing in a Kubiak/Shanahan style offense he can't do much else at this point in his career which is clearly on a down slide.
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Old 12-30-2012   #56
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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It's not just trading him that's the problem. Who do you replace him with?
....TJ Yates could have given a better effort than Schaub did today.


The problem with trading or cutting Schaub is you still take the cap hit for his guaranteed money
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Old 12-30-2012   #57
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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....TJ Yates could have given a better effort than Schaub did today.


The problem with trading or cutting Schaub is you still take the cap hit for his guaranteed money
Yeah, Schaub's not going anywhere. We're going to have to watch this SOB spiral out of the sky all the way down to the fireball he makes on the ground. He's got that cap number "death grip" on the team now. Wonder how many players they'll have to part with over the next two years to get out of cap trouble while Matt throws picks and plods into sacks. Can't afford to get him a line to make him better, we owe him $30 million. No problem, Gary can find some more 4th and 5th round bums to stand in front of him.
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Old 12-30-2012   #58
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

5th rounder
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Old 12-30-2012   #59
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

I will give you a case of Old Milwaukee's Best and a stale bag of Doritos.
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Old 12-30-2012   #60
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Default Re: What would be Schaub's trade value?

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He has no trade value firstly because he is reliant upon the system. Without Kubiak's system, Schaub is not a starting caliber QB. Secondly, he has minimal arm strength, he has no mobility to speak of, and has no pocket presence. Lastly, he's just not a good player and why would any team want to trade for him? Teams are having success finding young QBs in the draft who come in ready to play in a pass first style offense and can make plays with their feet. Schaub offers no dynamism and unless he's playing in a Kubiak/Shanahan style offense he can't do much else at this point in his career which is clearly on a down slide.
Why the hell is he going to be our QB? We can't develope anyone with him here and we have no chance for SB with him. Oh forgot our braintrust signed him to an extension. Do they really know anything about QB's?? Remember Carr and Orvlosky.

You think we give a 5th round and someone may take him??
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