Walter's Current Mock

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Texans are in prime position to finally address a serious upgrade inside. Cody is a free agent. Quin is more important to retain so unless Shaun is willing to stay here for less money (doubtful) there is a serious gap/hole in the middle. Perfect timing to move forward via the draft with a player more capable & who will be a foundation piece on defense. It is also imperative, that JJ Watt stays clean & healthy. Teams are double teaming him. Don't you expect Indy to adjust their defense second time around based on Watt did to them a couple weeks ago? They will do this & without fear because nobody next to Watt creates a mismatch & can be single blocked. Watt has been remarkably durable during this whole process but how long can he sustain such hand to hand combat? I'd say that BB is right & time is at hand to get JJ some help inside, someone else who requires double teams so JJ can continue doing his thing

Ok, so if you believe JJ needs help staying free of double teams wouldn't you want another stud pass rusher instead of a 2 down DT? Even if you're stuck on DT, how can you possibly believe the Texans are going to bring in a space-eater???

Shariff Floyd, DT, is my pick in the 1st if it must be a DT. That guy is strong enough to hold the point and quick enough to play 5 tech (where he would probably end up anyway). 1-gap penetration. I can't believe I really have to point that out.

[Rey]

Bad boy...why do u think we can get Patterson by trading down into the second?

[badboy]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

Ok, so if you believe JJ needs help staying free of double teams wouldn't you want another stud pass rusher instead of a 2 down DT? Even if you're stuck on DT, how can you possibly believe the Texans are going to bring in a space-eater???

Shariff Floyd, DT, is my pick in the 1st if it must be a DT. That guy is strong enough to hold the point and quick enough to play 5 tech (where he would probably end up anyway). 1-gap penetration. I can't believe I really have to point that out.

Not to speak for BL but Cody is nothing more than a "space eater" so why not? Watt on one side and A Smith/Crick on other of a decent NT will help keep JJ clean as BL posted. A Nose is to clog the middle shutting down the run first & foremost. Any sacks or rushes are gravy & why someone like Sylvester Williams or Brandon Williams who has done both is needed. I mocked Alabama's Jesse Williams early but all he does is clog middle ala Cody. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...jesse-williams

WEAKNESSES: Bit of a one-trick pony as Williams does not possess the quickness or the agility to collapse the pocket as a pass rusher. Must do a better job of protecting his knees as he is susceptible to cut blocks. Too often raises his pad level at the snap, negating some of his power and making him all the more vulnerable to cuts, as he possesses only moderate flexibility.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Rey

Bad boy...why do u think we can get Patterson by trading down into the second?

Because of rankings I trust like
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...nkings/2013/WR #53 with 6 WR ahead of him. Not saying he will be 53rd player selected but should be there top 8 or so of second round. I have watched him a lot as those ranked above him. I can't argue with those evals but I have him 3rd behind Keenan Allen and T. Williams. If Texans select him in first really cool & reduces risks of losing him. Patterson has some excellent film but also some not so good. He will not get the calls in NFL that he has in college when he pushes off the DB. I do not evaluate him as a PR but he can do that.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by badboy

Because of rankings I trust like
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...nkings/2013/WR #53 with 6 WR ahead of him. Not saying he will be 53rd player selected but should be there top 8 or so of second round. I have watched him a lot as those ranked above him. I can't argue with those evals but I have him 3rd behind Keenan Allen and T. Williams. If Texans select him in first really cool & reduces risks of losing him. Patterson has some excellent film but also some not so good. He will not get the calls in NFL that he has in college when he pushes off the DB. I do not evaluate him as a PR but he can do that.

Fair enough. Was just wondering.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

This is kind of how I see things.

I'm a big Patterson guy, but he'll probably be gone by 28-32. Terrance Williams is the next WR on my list and would represent great value in that draft range.

I would then trade up and if one of the QB's fell to the top of the 2nd I would trade up and take him. (Bray is my guy, he's a top 5 talent that wouldn't be there if he didn't have a run in with his HC and have mechanical issues. He has a very strong arm though) RT would be on my list with the comp 3rd rd pick. (There appears to be depth in this yrs draft there) I have high hopes for Brooks next yr at OG. This would fix the offense. Or atleast be a start.

Then I would re-sign Quin who I consider to be the most important FA on the Texans this yr. Quins versatility playing LB in the nickle and being the leader (getting guys lined up correctly) is invaluable. I agree with you that Cody will be re-signed at his cuurent contract value. However to do this the Texans will have to re-up him for 3 yrs. Would you do this? Or is 3 yrs too long? Barwin is a tough case, he's played more like a 2 mill guy than a 10 mill guy. How much would you pay him and how would you restructure his contract?

The rest of the draft should be for adding depth to the defense, paticularly the LB's as they are the heart of the defense. I really like Klien and Knott the 2 Iowa St LB's. Those guys are players and should be there in the 4-5th rd range.

If the Texans let the lower tier FA's walk, you can always find guys to replace them. (Dobbins, James, Demps etc...0 They are street guys that can be replaced Ball is an example of a guy like this that Rick signed off of the street last yr.

The main thing is to try to fix the offense for the short term and the long term in this yrs draft. It's been neglected forfar to long. IMHO

I want nothing to do with any of the QB's in this draft class ... I think at best , even those taken in the top of the draft are career backups .... I might look at a guy like Landry Jones if he fell to me at the Comp pick in the 3rd (MW comp pick) but ..... that might even be a stretch.


My board looks like this for now and pending both Cody and Quin are retained (without going into specific players)

1 CB or WR
2 OG
3 CB or WR - whichever didnt get covered in the 1st.
3Comp - ILB / RT.
4 ILB / RT
5 and beyond BPA.

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by badboy

Not to speak for BL but Cody is nothing more than a "space eater" so why not? Watt on one side and A Smith/Crick on other of a decent NT will help keep JJ clean as BL posted. A Nose is to clog the middle shutting down the run first & foremost. Any sacks or rushes are gravy & why someone like Sylvester Williams or Brandon Williams who has done both is needed. I mocked Alabama's Jesse Williams early but all he does is clog middle ala Cody. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...jesse-williams

WEAKNESSES: Bit of a one-trick pony as Williams does not possess the quickness or the agility to collapse the pocket as a pass rusher. Must do a better job of protecting his knees as he is susceptible to cut blocks. Too often raises his pad level at the snap, negating some of his power and making him all the more vulnerable to cuts, as he possesses only moderate flexibility.

Yeah, no thanks on Jesse Williams. He's bad bodied and a product of the system. I'll stick with Floyd who is a truck and has the physical ability and skills to stay on the field every down.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

Ok, so if you believe JJ needs help staying free of double teams wouldn't you want another stud pass rusher instead of a 2 down DT? Even if you're stuck on DT, how can you possibly believe the Texans are going to bring in a space-eater???

Shariff Floyd, DT, is my pick in the 1st if it must be a DT. That guy is strong enough to hold the point and quick enough to play 5 tech (where he would probably end up anyway). 1-gap penetration. I can't believe I really have to point that out.

Floyd is pretty good at getting penetration but good OL can lock him up. If we are going DT early Short is THE MAN. He penetrates better than any other DT in this draft and has that rare ability to disengage from OL and attack the ball with a burst. Very similar in that regard to JJ Watt. He has a solid anchor and is stout against the run. And because of his ability to penetrate he would stay on the field on passing downs. Unless Wade wants a space eater in the middle (doubt it) Short is the best fit by far in this draft.

Shorts ability to penetrate would mean Watt would see lots more one on one and we all know what that would mean. He will be gone alot earlier than where we will be picking so if we are going to go DT route, we will have to move up to get Short. It would be worth it IMO because he is Taylor made for this defense.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by mussop

Floyd is pretty good at getting penetration but good OL can lock him up. If we are going DT early Short is THE MAN. He penetrates better than any other DT in this draft and has that rare ability to disengage from OL and attack the ball with a burst. Very similar in that regard to JJ Watt. He has a solid anchor and is stout against the run. And because of his ability to penetrate he would stay on the field on passing downs. Unless Wade wants a space eater in the middle (doubt it) Short is the best fit by far in this draft.

Shorts ability to penetrate would mean Watt would see lots more one on one and we all know what that would mean. He will be gone alot earlier than where we will be picking so if we are going to go DT route, we will have to move up to get Short. It would be worth it IMO because he is Taylor made for this defense.

Can you compare Short to Brandon Williams who also has rep for penetrating (8.5 sacks 17.5 TFL) and can clog middle at 325lbs. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...andon-williams

If you can offer comparison, please consider the round difference. Seems like Brandon would be the superior choice especially if some are right that Cody will return.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by badboy

Can you compare Short to Brandon Williams who also has rep for penetrating (8.5 sacks 17.5 TFL) and can clog middle at 325lbs. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...andon-williams

If you can offer comparison, please consider the round difference. Seems like Brandon would be the superior choice especially if some are right that Cody will return.

Honestly don't know much about him. Don't have access to much division 2 game tapes. I know he is going to play in the senior bowl so we'll have to see what he's all about there. His write ups are intriguing I'll say that. But with any small school player it will come down to ability to impress against better competition in the off season.

My take on Short is that he is perfect fit for our defensive scheme and would be an instant starter. Therefore worthy of a first round pick, even a move up depending on cost. And yes thats even if we keep Cody. Not that I think Cody is that bad either. I just think Short is that good and fits that well.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by mussop

Honestly don't know much about him. Don't have access to much division 2 game tapes. I know he is going to play in the senior bowl so we'll have to see what he's all about there. His write ups are intriguing I'll say that. But with any small school player it will come down to ability to impress against better competition in the off season.

My take on Short is that he is perfect fit for our defensive scheme and would be an instant starter. Therefore worthy of a first round pick, even a move up depending on cost. And yes thats even if we keep Cody. Not that I think Cody is that bad either. I just think Short is that good and fits that well.

Thanks. Senior bowl last season was a joke so I doubt I'll get much. When I research Short, many folks who have watch him say good DT, not good Nose.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Texans are in prime position to finally address a serious upgrade inside. Cody is a free agent. Quin is more important to retain so unless Shaun is willing to stay here for less money (doubtful) there is a serious gap/hole in the middle. Perfect timing to move forward via the draft with a player more capable & who will be a foundation piece on defense. It is also imperative, that JJ Watt stays clean & healthy. Teams are double teaming him. Don't you expect Indy to adjust their defense second time around based on Watt did to them a couple weeks ago? They will do this & without fear because nobody next to Watt creates a mismatch & can be single blocked. Watt has been remarkably durable during this whole process but how long can he sustain such hand to hand combat? I'd say that BB is right & time is at hand to get JJ some help inside, someone else who requires double teams so JJ can continue doing his thing

Getting help doesn't mean 1st rd help. I want a dominating NT just as much as the next guy. But with the way the offense has looked, it's time to invest high picks in it. Luckily this yr is a good yr to fill holes on the OL/WR.

My mind on the Texans needs changed when I saw 2 offensive TD's in 14 qtrs. But if you want a 3rd or later NT Brandon Williams or Cory Grissom might be good picks.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by badboy

Thanks. Senior bowl last season was a joke so I doubt I'll get much. When I research Short, many folks who have watch him say good DT, not good Nose.

Something to consider is what Wade expects out the DT position. I say DT because I don't see our middle guy as a NT. If it were a traditional NT position would Cody or Mitchell be playing there? I know he has had bigger DT's in the past but in recent years he seems to have adjusted that position to suite smaller more athletic DT's like Ratliff and Cody. Cody has been there more because he is the best available for Wade. I have little doubt Wade would replace him if the resources were available to him. I suspect (just my opinion) it would be with a player more like Ratliff than a NT type.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Getting help doesn't mean 1st rd help. I want a dominating NT just as much as the next guy. But with the way the offense has looked, it's time to invest high picks in it. Luckily this yr is a good yr to fill holes on the OL/WR.

My mind on the Texans needs changed when I saw 2 offensive TD's in 14 qtrs. But if you want a 3rd or later NT Brandon Williams or Cory Grissom might be good picks.

Really can't go wrong either way. But I've always been a build the trenches first guy. However really good guards can be found alot later than really good D linemen. Plus scheme is important to remember. Our Scheme allows for us to be able to take OL later and still get high quality fits. If you can get a starting DL that really fits your scheme you jump on it.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Texans are in prime position to finally address a serious upgrade inside. Cody is a free agent. Quin is more important to retain so unless Shaun is willing to stay here for less money (doubtful) there is a serious gap/hole in the middle. Perfect timing to move forward via the draft with a player more capable & who will be a foundation piece on defense. It is also imperative, that JJ Watt stays clean & healthy. Teams are double teaming him. Don't you expect Indy to adjust their defense second time around based on Watt did to them a couple weeks ago? They will do this & without fear because nobody next to Watt creates a mismatch & can be single blocked. Watt has been remarkably durable during this whole process but how long can he sustain such hand to hand combat? I'd say that BB is right & time is at hand to get JJ some help inside, someone else who requires double teams so JJ can continue doing his thing

I wouldnt mind an upgrade inside .... but you have to remember that Cody is on the is sidelines on passing downs and that they tend to go with another DE (3-4 de) moving inside .... especially earlier in the year before injuries sent Harris to the IR. They had Watt , with Ninja and Harris or Crick inside and Barwin playing a more typical DE.

The only way you upgrade the NT spot is with a three down player .... and I only see one of those guys in this entire draft and he'll be gone top five.


In looking for help for Watt and Ninja on those passing situations .... I think you have to look at a 3-4 DE rather than a NT type.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

I wouldnt mind an upgrade inside .... but you have to remember that Cody is on the is sidelines on passing downs and that they tend to go with another DE (3-4 de) moving inside .... especially earlier in the year before injuries sent Harris to the IR. They had Watt , with Ninja and Harris or Crick inside and Barwin playing a more typical DE.

The only way you upgrade the NT spot is with a three down player .... and I only see one of those guys in this entire draft and he'll be gone top five.


In looking for help for Watt and Ninja on those passing situations .... I think you have to look at a 3-4 DE rather than a NT type.

Who are you referring too? Have you scouted Short?

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by mussop

Who are you referring too? Have you scouted Short?

I was talking about Sylvester Williams out of NC. He's the only guy in this crop of DT/NT I see as being on the field in passing situations with the Texans. Other teams Lotulelei and Short might see more use in those situations but Wade tends to put a premium on pass rush ability.
(Williams might not fall in the top five but he'll be gone in the top 10 , Texans have no shot at him).

Yeah Ive scouted Short and Im not at all high on him .... He's a paper tiger IMO , all the tools and limited production , disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

I was talking about Sylvester Williams out of NC. He's the only guy in this crop of DT/NT I see as being on the field in passing situations with the Texans. Other teams Lotulelei and Short might see more use in those situations but Wade tends to put a premium on pass rush ability.
(Williams might not fall in the top five but he'll be gone in the top 10 , Texans have no shot at him).

Yeah Ive scouted Short and Im not at all high on him .... He's a paper tiger IMO , all the tools and limited production , disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.

paper tiger? not from what I've watched. Kawaan & Sylvester's numbers are almost spot on with exception Short has done it for four years compared to Williams two. I also feel the Big 10 is a much tougher conference than Atlantic Coast. Short was named Second Team AP All-American not Williams. He finished 42 tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss, six sacks, four PBUs, four blocked kicks, two fumbles recovered and one forced. He finished the 2012 regular season tied for fourth in the Big Ten in tackles for loss per game and tied for fifth in sacks. Short is eighth all-time at Purdue in both career tackles for loss (48.0) and sacks (18.5) and has blocked more career field goals (six) than any other player in school history.

That is not limited production from a nose tackle. Limited production & paper tiger would apply more to Cody, I know he has been injured but staying healthy is also a part of the game. I mean 17 tackles for the season & we don't have a problem, hey I know lets rush to resign him cause we need his production. No sacks. No blocks. No tackles for loss. Give me a freaking break. Maybe Mitchell is getting most of the nose reps lets check out his numbers? Wow, 28 tackles, 11 more than Cody. Unfortunately no sacks, no swatts but hey he did force one fumble.

They say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

I was talking about Sylvester Williams out of NC. He's the only guy in this crop of DT/NT I see as being on the field in passing situations with the Texans. Other teams Lotulelei and Short might see more use in those situations but Wade tends to put a premium on pass rush ability.
(Williams might not fall in the top five but he'll be gone in the top 10 , Texans have no shot at him).

Yeah Ive scouted Short and Im not at all high on him .... He's a paper tiger IMO , all the tools and limited production , disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.

Wow I don't see any of that. You do know he played with a bad ankle a few games this year right? Maybe thats where you are getting "disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.".

as for limited production,

Short 42 tackles, 14.5 tackles for a loss, six sacks, four passes broken up, four blocked kicks and a forced fumble.

Williams 42 tackles, 13.5 tackles for a loss and six sacks.

I do like Williams. He has a better anchor than Short but is not even close as a penetrator. I guess it just depends on what you want out of the position. I want someone at DT who can split defenders regularly. This will allow Watt more one on ones. A player like Williams will make us better against the run but wont help much in pass rush.

From what I have seen Williams looks like a mid to late first. Of course my opinion could change depending on his workouts and combine. I don't see them changing to top 5 or ten though.

Originally Posted by Corrosion

I was talking about Sylvester Williams out of NC. He's the only guy in this crop of DT/NT I see as being on the field in passing situations with the Texans. Other teams Lotulelei and Short might see more use in those situations but Wade tends to put a premium on pass rush ability.
(Williams might not fall in the top five but he'll be gone in the top 10 , Texans have no shot at him).

Yeah Ive scouted Short and Im not at all high on him .... He's a paper tiger IMO , all the tools and limited production , disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.

Wow I don't see any of that. You do know he played with a bad ankle a few games this year right? Maybe thats where you are getting "disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.".

as for limited production,

Short 42 tackles, 14.5 tackles for a loss, six sacks, four passes broken up, four blocked kicks and a forced fumble.

Williams 42 tackles, 13.5 tackles for a loss and six sacks.

I do like Williams. He has a better anchor than Short but is not even close as a penetrator. I guess it just depends on what you want out of the position. I want someone at DT who can split defenders regularly. This will allow Watt more one on ones. A player like Williams will make us better against the run but wont help much in pass rush.

From what I have seen Williams looks like a mid to late first. Of course my opinion could change depending on his workouts and combine. I don't see them changing to top 5 or ten though.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by mussop

Wow I don't see any of that. You do know he played with a bad ankle a few games this year right? Maybe thats where you are getting "disappears far too much for long stretches. #nomotor.".

as for limited production,

Short 42 tackles, 14.5 tackles for a loss, six sacks, four passes broken up, four blocked kicks and a forced fumble.

Williams 42 tackles, 13.5 tackles for a loss and six sacks.

That I did not know .... so many prospects , hard to keep up with everything.

From what I had seen , he would have a good quarter , or a few good plays , then disappear for a half .... Yes he put up stats , but went long stretches without doing much.

That injury may have had something to do with what I was seeing .... Still , I think both are long gone before the Texans select in the first round.