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Old 12-26-2012   #1
TimeKiller
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Default Walter's Current Mock

Walterfootball.com 's current mock has us taking:

1-C. Patterson, WR
2- Oday Aboushi, OT
3- Andre Ellington, RB

I must say, I'm for it. I'm a buyer of what Patterson is selling. Aboushi seems like a good fit for the Texans as well, even if you want to say take Long's boy I'm good with it. But the RB, what if I said let's take Marcus Lattimore? His injury was downright nasty but let's not forget what RBs can do just one year removed from a nasty injury...He's very Foster-like in my opinion and would be an excellent one-cut runner. By the time he's fully recovered he'll make Ben Tate (or Foster, who knows) expendable. This is the same strategy that netted us Jared Crick, easily a top-50 pick by talent alone in the 4th round. Or even possibly "Tank" Carrradine, DE, another guy who is going to drop due to injury.

I think from there you grab the best DB available with the 3rd comp pick. 4th round best OG available. 5th round get some LBer depth. 6th or wherever the comp picks end up later grab a TE or two or three lol...maybe a flyer on a QB? Help me out here, fill in my blanks:

1- Cordarelle Patterson, WR
2- Aboushi/Long, OT
3- Marcus Lattimore, RB
3a-__________________ , DB?
4-____________________ , OG?
5-____________________ , LB?
6-_____________________ , TE?
7-_____________________ , QB?
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Old 12-26-2012   #2
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

I can get behind Patterson only because I think he's THAT talented.

I think that when it comes to draft day though, he won't be there. I think he's going to do well at the combine and then when people put on his game film they will see how good a player he is.

If he is there though, great. That's your future AJ replacement and can learn under him while he's still around.
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Old 12-26-2012   #3
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Walterfootball.com 's current mock has us taking:

1-C. Patterson, WR
2- Oday Aboushi, OT
3- Andre Ellington, RB

I must say, I'm for it. I'm a buyer of what Patterson is selling. Aboushi seems like a good fit for the Texans as well, even if you want to say take Long's boy I'm good with it. But the RB, what if I said let's take Marcus Lattimore? His injury was downright nasty but let's not forget what RBs can do just one year removed from a nasty injury...He's very Foster-like in my opinion and would be an excellent one-cut runner. By the time he's fully recovered he'll make Ben Tate (or Foster, who knows) expendable. This is the same strategy that netted us Jared Crick, easily a top-50 pick by talent alone in the 4th round. Or even possibly "Tank" Carrradine, DE, another guy who is going to drop due to injury.

I think from there you grab the best DB available with the 3rd comp pick. 4th round best OG available. 5th round get some LBer depth. 6th or wherever the comp picks end up later grab a TE or two or three lol...maybe a flyer on a QB? Help me out here, fill in my blanks:

1- Cordarelle Patterson, WR
2- Aboushi/Long, OT
3- Marcus Lattimore, RB
3a-__________________ , DB?
4-____________________ , OG?
5-____________________ , LB?
6-_____________________ , TE?
7-_____________________ , QB?
Arguably the greatest need nose tackle not even on your list so it is hard for me to take your thread seriously.
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Old 12-26-2012   #4
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post

1- Cordarelle Patterson, WR
2- Aboushi/Long, OT
3- Marcus Lattimore, RB
3a-__________________ , DB?
4-____________________ , OG?
5-____________________ , LB?
6-_____________________ , TE?
7-_____________________ , QB?
NT is a bigger need in the 1st and I think that after the Combine, Patterson will be gone by our pick in the 1st. I really like Aboushi but again NT is a much bigger need. It's unknown if Lattimore will come back from his injury and since it's not his first knee injury he's not worth a 3rd, maybe in the 6th or 7th depending on medical opinions.
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Old 12-26-2012   #5
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Arguably the greatest need nose tackle not even on your list so it is hard for me to take your thread seriously.
I think that remains to be seen ... It hinges upon their keeping Cody or not.


I have a suspicion that Cody will resign with the Texans with roughly the same cap figure he has now for another three years.

I also believe they will keep Glover Quin ....

Im much more concerned with the prospect of losing both McCain and Ball at CB along with Dobbins and James at ILB.


My list of needs as of now is quite different than yours - I'd like to upgrade NT but see other positions as higher priority.
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Old 12-26-2012   #6
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I think that remains to be seen ... It hinges upon their keeping Cody or not.


I have a suspicion that Cody will resign with the Texans with roughly the same cap figure he has now for another three years.

I also believe they will keep Glover Quin ....

Im much more concerned with the prospect of losing both McCain and Ball at CB along with Dobbins and James at ILB.


My list of needs as of now is quite different than yours - I'd like to upgrade NT but see other positions as higher priority.
Enjoyed the read and we do disagree. A healthy Cody is not the answer even if he re-signs. That may happen but we need to do better at shutting down the run. Over all stats say we were 4th at one point not sure now but the runs up the middle come at very inopportune times. He turns 30 January and in our system takes a beating. He is not to the defense what Myers is to Oline. If he cannot get job done now, why would you re-sign?

I agree Quin will return.
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Old 12-26-2012   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Enjoyed the read and we do disagree. A healthy Cody is not the answer even if he re-signs. That may happen but we need to do better at shutting down the run. Over all stats say we were 4th at one point not sure now but the runs up the middle come at very inopportune times. He turns 30 January and in our system takes a beating. He is not to the defense what Myers is to Oline. If he cannot get job done now, why would you re-sign?

I agree Quin will return.
I agree. I wouldn't bring Cody back. I don't think the difference between him and Mitchell warrants the money that will be needed.

I'd rather draft a player with more talent.

Cody gets too much credit IMO. He's not some immovable player and hes not a great penetrator either.
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Old 12-26-2012   #8
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Arguably the greatest need nose tackle not even on your list so it is hard for me to take your thread seriously.

1. Your assessment of need would be rather easy to dispute.
2. The point of this thread was more about cherry picking/discussing Walter's mock than mine.
3. If I did have a point, it would be taking a guy like Lattimore using the same strategy as last year when they got Crick.

I agree with those who think Patterson is due to rise. Seems like a plug-n-play playmaker in many areas. Still, I'd take him if available.
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Old 12-26-2012   #9
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
1. Your assessment of need would be rather easy to dispute.
2. The point of this thread was more about cherry picking/discussing Walter's mock than mine.
3. If I did have a point, it would be taking a guy like Lattimore using the same strategy as last year when they got Crick.

I agree with those who think Patterson is due to rise. Seems like a plug-n-play playmaker in many areas. Still, I'd take him if available.
Not the way I read your thread. You said to fill in your blanks....
Please dispute my need assessment. It helps to clarify my mocks when I get feedback. Not arguing just seeking discussion. Also I think the difference in Crick versus Lattimore is Crick was drafted April of 2012 and played in first game and 14 for season. Lattimore may never play again my understanding at best would miss 2013 if drafted. There are RBs who could contribute 2013 and available at lower rounds.
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Old 12-27-2012   #10
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Enjoyed the read and we do disagree. A healthy Cody is not the answer even if he re-signs. That may happen but we need to do better at shutting down the run. Over all stats say we were 4th at one point not sure now but the runs up the middle come at very inopportune times. He turns 30 January and in our system takes a beating. He is not to the defense what Myers is to Oline. If he cannot get job done now, why would you re-sign?

I agree Quin will return.
Thing about Cody is I dont see a guy who's going to give you , from day one the same production without moving up significantly.

I agree he's going to be on the wrong side of 30 .... and that there is no guarantee he comes back healthy (may need surgery on that bad back).

It boils down to bang for the buck - I think they can resign him on the cheap pending he's healthy. If he's not healthy then all bets are off.


But as of now , Im more concerned with CB , OG , ILB and WR than I am DT.

McCain & Ball FA's - I dont see McCain returning. Ball may be retained on the cheap .... but thats a big ???


At OG Caldwell will be a FA , dont see him returning , Smith will be in the final year of his deal and hasnt played well recently.

ILB Dobbins and James will be FA's. Have to wonder if either is retained and how Cushing will respond post injury. Sharpton .... is a backup IMO.

WR .... man its obvious that #80 needs some help.

Then we have Barwin .... who hasnt really had a real good season numbers wise. They have Mercilus behind him , he may be gone leaving the need for another OLB. That leaves a gaping hole behind the starter ....

Quin along with Demps and Keo that will be FA's at S. I think they keep Quin and outside of Barwin , he's the only guy I see seeking a significant raise.


At OT Gardner , Butler , and Harris will hit the market.


After watching the past few weeks , I really think they have to get better up front on the OL. Its painfully obvious that the current group isnt good enough. Im looking at OG's in the second round.


First round , im looking at WR and CB taking the highest rated guy from either position then filling the other later , probably in the 3rd round or moving back up into the second to grab a guy who slips some. They have a 3rd round comp pick coming , using the other 3rd rd along with later picks to move into the 2nd isnt out of the realm of possibility.


That 3rd round comp pick is where I start looking at DT and ILB .... as well as replacing depth lost from the 20+ that will reach FA.
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Old 12-27-2012   #11
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Thing about Cody is I dont see a guy who's going to give you , from day one the same production without moving up significantly.

I agree he's going to be on the wrong side of 30 .... and that there is no guarantee he comes back healthy (may need surgery on that bad back).

It boils down to bang for the buck - I think they can resign him on the cheap pending he's healthy. If he's not healthy then all bets are off.


But as of now , Im more concerned with CB , OG , ILB and WR than I am DT.

McCain & Ball FA's - I dont see McCain returning. Ball may be retained on the cheap .... but thats a big ???


At OG Caldwell will be a FA , dont see him returning , Smith will be in the final year of his deal and hasnt played well recently.

ILB Dobbins and James will be FA's. Have to wonder if either is retained and how Cushing will respond post injury. Sharpton .... is a backup IMO.

WR .... man its obvious that #80 needs some help.

Then we have Barwin .... who hasnt really had a real good season numbers wise. They have Mercilus behind him , he may be gone leaving the need for another OLB. That leaves a gaping hole behind the starter ....

Quin along with Demps and Keo that will be FA's at S. I think they keep Quin and outside of Barwin , he's the only guy I see seeking a significant raise.


At OT Gardner , Butler , and Harris will hit the market.


After watching the past few weeks , I really think they have to get better up front on the OL. Its painfully obvious that the current group isnt good enough. Im looking at OG's in the second round.


First round , im looking at WR and CB taking the highest rated guy from either position then filling the other later , probably in the 3rd round or moving back up into the second to grab a guy who slips some. They have a 3rd round comp pick coming , using the other 3rd rd along with later picks to move into the 2nd isnt out of the realm of possibility.


That 3rd round comp pick is where I start looking at DT and ILB .... as well as replacing depth lost from the 20+ that will reach FA.
Not soon enough at ILB IMO.
I don't see Cody playing any better or worse than last year. I don't think he is the problem. He could be upgraded for sure but the ILB thats the real difference in this years defense and last years. We have been exposed in the middle and even with Cush back we need another top dog in there. This defense is designed around the LB's. They are key and right now our ILB's are just not good enough.
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Old 12-27-2012   #12
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Not soon enough at ILB IMO.
I don't see Cody playing any better or worse than last year. I don't think he is the problem. He could be upgraded for sure but the ILB thats the real difference in this years defense and last years. We have been exposed in the middle and even with Cush back we need another top dog in there. This defense is designed around the LB's. They are key and right now our ILB's are just not good enough.
I dont disagree .... but I think a combination of Cushing & Dobbins/ Sharpton might be really good. Dobbins in particular is always in the right spot. (we didnt get to see either combination this season).

There will also be a few guys on the FA market that I would look at ....


I'd live to be able tp spend a premium pick on an ILB but the way things look right now , there are just too many other holes that are more dire.

There is also the possibility that Reed moves inside ... He and Cushing could be a really dynamic pair inside.
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Old 12-27-2012   #13
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Thing about Cody is I dont see a guy who's going to give you , from day one the same production without moving up significantly.

I agree he's going to be on the wrong side of 30 .... and that there is no guarantee he comes back healthy (may need surgery on that bad back).

It boils down to bang for the buck - I think they can resign him on the cheap pending he's healthy. If he's not healthy then all bets are off.


But as of now , Im more concerned with CB , OG , ILB and WR than I am DT.

McCain & Ball FA's - I dont see McCain returning. Ball may be retained on the cheap .... but thats a big ???


At OG Caldwell will be a FA , dont see him returning , Smith will be in the final year of his deal and hasnt played well recently.

ILB Dobbins and James will be FA's. Have to wonder if either is retained and how Cushing will respond post injury. Sharpton .... is a backup IMO.

WR .... man its obvious that #80 needs some help.

Then we have Barwin .... who hasnt really had a real good season numbers wise. They have Mercilus behind him , he may be gone leaving the need for another OLB. That leaves a gaping hole behind the starter ....

Quin along with Demps and Keo that will be FA's at S. I think they keep Quin and outside of Barwin , he's the only guy I see seeking a significant raise.


At OT Gardner , Butler , and Harris will hit the market.


After watching the past few weeks , I really think they have to get better up front on the OL. Its painfully obvious that the current group isnt good enough. Im looking at OG's in the second round.


First round , im looking at WR and CB taking the highest rated guy from either position then filling the other later , probably in the 3rd round or moving back up into the second to grab a guy who slips some. They have a 3rd round comp pick coming , using the other 3rd rd along with later picks to move into the 2nd isnt out of the realm of possibility.


That 3rd round comp pick is where I start looking at DT and ILB .... as well as replacing depth lost from the 20+ that will reach FA.
This is kind of how I see things.

I'm a big Patterson guy, but he'll probably be gone by 28-32. Terrance Williams is the next WR on my list and would represent great value in that draft range.

I would then trade up and if one of the QB's fell to the top of the 2nd I would trade up and take him. (Bray is my guy, he's a top 5 talent that wouldn't be there if he didn't have a run in with his HC and have mechanical issues. He has a very strong arm though) RT would be on my list with the comp 3rd rd pick. (There appears to be depth in this yrs draft there) I have high hopes for Brooks next yr at OG. This would fix the offense. Or atleast be a start.

Then I would re-sign Quin who I consider to be the most important FA on the Texans this yr. Quins versatility playing LB in the nickle and being the leader (getting guys lined up correctly) is invaluable. I agree with you that Cody will be re-signed at his cuurent contract value. However to do this the Texans will have to re-up him for 3 yrs. Would you do this? Or is 3 yrs too long? Barwin is a tough case, he's played more like a 2 mill guy than a 10 mill guy. How much would you pay him and how would you restructure his contract?

The rest of the draft should be for adding depth to the defense, paticularly the LB's as they are the heart of the defense. I really like Klien and Knott the 2 Iowa St LB's. Those guys are players and should be there in the 4-5th rd range.

If the Texans let the lower tier FA's walk, you can always find guys to replace them. (Dobbins, James, Demps etc...0 They are street guys that can be replaced Ball is an example of a guy like this that Rick signed off of the street last yr.

The main thing is to try to fix the offense for the short term and the long term in this yrs draft. It's been neglected forfar to long. IMHO
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Old 12-27-2012   #14
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

Bleecher see's a whole bundle of QB's taken early, check out their "FRESH MOCK" just posted: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...m_campaign=nfl

how would you guys feel about Jordan?

I still prefer Short
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Old 12-27-2012   #15
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Not the way I read your thread. You said to fill in your blanks....
Please dispute my need assessment. It helps to clarify my mocks when I get feedback. Not arguing just seeking discussion. Also I think the difference in Crick versus Lattimore is Crick was drafted April of 2012 and played in first game and 14 for season. Lattimore may never play again my understanding at best would miss 2013 if drafted. There are RBs who could contribute 2013 and available at lower rounds.
How long have Cody/Mitchell been the only two DTs on the roster? And they're the first guys off the field when the Texans play nickel, dime, whatever. There even seems to be a few extra really big guys that could play in the middle this draft....and we all know how Texans fans long for some mammoth NT. Guess what probably won't happen yet again?!

The right side of the OL is in much worse shape than DT. More depth at CB and S to continue improving the coverage and support the pass rushers they've invested in. The offensive skill positions are decently stocked with depth but elite talent? I think picking up guys like Cody is easier than hitting on a pick for a DT.
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Old 12-27-2012   #16
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Bleecher see's a whole bundle of QB's taken early, check out their "FRESH MOCK" just posted: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...m_campaign=nfl

how would you guys feel about Jordan?

I still prefer Short
I don't think he lasts to the late 1st but I would freak out if we got him. He would be a unique weapon in combating offenses. As a sam LB in 3-4 looks you could send him all over the field, covering TEs and backs or simply rush the passer.
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Old 12-27-2012   #17
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
How long have Cody/Mitchell been the only two DTs on the roster? And they're the first guys off the field when the Texans play nickel, dime, whatever. There even seems to be a few extra really big guys that could play in the middle this draft....and we all know how Texans fans long for some mammoth NT. Guess what probably won't happen yet again?!

The right side of the OL is in much worse shape than DT. More depth at CB and S to continue improving the coverage and support the pass rushers they've invested in. The offensive skill positions are decently stocked with depth but elite talent? I think picking up guys like Cody is easier than hitting on a pick for a DT.
Texans are in prime position to finally address a serious upgrade inside. Cody is a free agent. Quin is more important to retain so unless Shaun is willing to stay here for less money (doubtful) there is a serious gap/hole in the middle. Perfect timing to move forward via the draft with a player more capable & who will be a foundation piece on defense. It is also imperative, that JJ Watt stays clean & healthy. Teams are double teaming him. Don't you expect Indy to adjust their defense second time around based on Watt did to them a couple weeks ago? They will do this & without fear because nobody next to Watt creates a mismatch & can be single blocked. Watt has been remarkably durable during this whole process but how long can he sustain such hand to hand combat? I'd say that BB is right & time is at hand to get JJ some help inside, someone else who requires double teams so JJ can continue doing his thing
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Old 12-27-2012   #18
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Bleecher see's a whole bundle of QB's taken early, check out their "FRESH MOCK" just posted: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...m_campaign=nfl

how would you guys feel about Jordan?

I still prefer Short
The irony here is rich with the Raiders reaching at pick three for a QB but Glennon going #2 overall.
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Old 12-27-2012   #19
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Thing about Cody is I dont see a guy who's going to give you , from day one the same production without moving up significantly.

I agree he's going to be on the wrong side of 30 .... and that there is no guarantee he comes back healthy (may need surgery on that bad back).

It boils down to bang for the buck - I think they can resign him on the cheap pending he's healthy. If he's not healthy then all bets are off.


But as of now , Im more concerned with CB , OG , ILB and WR than I am DT.

McCain & Ball FA's - I dont see McCain returning. Ball may be retained on the cheap .... but thats a big ???


At OG Caldwell will be a FA , dont see him returning , Smith will be in the final year of his deal and hasnt played well recently.

ILB Dobbins and James will be FA's. Have to wonder if either is retained and how Cushing will respond post injury. Sharpton .... is a backup IMO.

WR .... man its obvious that #80 needs some help.

Then we have Barwin .... who hasnt really had a real good season numbers wise. They have Mercilus behind him , he may be gone leaving the need for another OLB. That leaves a gaping hole behind the starter ....

Quin along with Demps and Keo that will be FA's at S. I think they keep Quin and outside of Barwin , he's the only guy I see seeking a significant raise.


At OT Gardner , Butler , and Harris will hit the market.


After watching the past few weeks , I really think they have to get better up front on the OL. Its painfully obvious that the current group isnt good enough. Im looking at OG's in the second round.


First round , im looking at WR and CB taking the highest rated guy from either position then filling the other later , probably in the 3rd round or moving back up into the second to grab a guy who slips some. They have a 3rd round comp pick coming , using the other 3rd rd along with later picks to move into the 2nd isnt out of the realm of possibility.


That 3rd round comp pick is where I start looking at DT and ILB .... as well as replacing depth lost from the 20+ that will reach FA.
Good points: Cody if healthy may sign cheap and allow a draft pick to work in. He is well liked and has the "On the Nose" thing going but seems like that would do well anywhere. I think as you do that a hoss is needed beside Cushing & that's why I select Andrew Jackson in 3rd comp. He had 6 tackles last night (111 for season) despite Central Michigan's QB passing for 253 & 3 TDS. 6'1 262 and strong with playmaking to sidelines. I think first round NTs will not be there for us even if Wade would agree to take one. Sylvester Williams who not only clogs middle gets to QB (6 sacks) should be in second and Brandon Williams is getting good reviews for 4th round.

Brandon Harris replaces McCain who had not been that great prior to injury. I think before we throw Harris under the bus he should get same time as KJ who played every game compared to minimal for Harris. I am hoping Routt will replace Ball. JMO.


WRs vs Corners: Patterson vs Trufant imo. The first a big fast 4.46 who might stretch field for AJ & has highlight reels. Trufant is a shut down CB and we should be able to get either by trading down into second. I don't think Trufant will beat out KJ first year but Patterson should beat out Walter if Posey has not by then. So question is if NT is a later than second round need, do you go Cordarrelle Patterson WR (first) and maybe David Amerson Cb (second)? Or Trufant first pick and then ? I have seen no second round ILB better than third round choices.
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Old 12-27-2012   #20
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Default Re: Walter's Current Mock

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Not soon enough at ILB IMO.
I don't see Cody playing any better or worse than last year. I don't think he is the problem. He could be upgraded for sure but the ILB thats the real difference in this years defense and last years. We have been exposed in the middle and even with Cush back we need another top dog in there. This defense is designed around the LB's. They are key and right now our ILB's are just not good enough.
Most evaluations have T'eo going high first round and LSU's Kevin Minter high second round before we pick. Ogletree might be there in late second & at 6'3 234 could add to his bulk. He is a tackling machine & could play OLB.

So if you are going to "want" how would you "fill" the want? ILB is very shallow this draft.
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