The House that Gary/Rex Built.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Did it ever get that bad for us? I know we had a 2-14 season, but did we ever look that inept against a team that bad?

My memory isn't what it should be. I remember some bad games, but I don't remember the details. Do you ever remember our team being on the losing end of a game that bad?

During the 2-14 season, we never had a single lead in the first six games of the season.

Think about that for a second. 24 quarters - a month and a half of football - and they never had even a 1 point lead in a game.

Heck, we fired our OC (Chris Palmer) just two games into the season, iirc.

Yeah, that was a horrible season. Much worse, IMO, than the Jets 2012.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

How is Rex having a QB that regresses an excuse, and for Kubiak having a defense that sucks a cardinal sin?

1. Offensive TD in each of the last 2 games.

The defense did stop Brady and Co. 4 times in a row, what did the 1st string offense do? You've got to score points against Brady. Did you see what he did to the 49ers? But see, the 49ers put points on the board.

I dont blame Gary, there's a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball. I believe he's so conservative because it helps hide the offensive flaws.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Perki-Perk

SteelB. I just love debating with you because it is so easy to point out the flaws in your argument. We have been without Cushing and have had a very limited to non existent Jonathan Joseph. Let's not compare Oranges to rotten apples, please

What's your point?

The defense and the offense are limited for different reasons. Good news is they are still able to beat avg/below avg teams despite these limitations. Are you saying because Cushing is lost the Texans have no chance at the SB.

My point is, that people may hate Ryan, but he has accomplished more with Buttfumble as his QB than Gary has dreamed of in his current tenure as HC.

Again, I dont understand the meaning of your post.

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

1. Offensive TD in each of the last 2 games.

The defense did stop Brady and Co. 4 times in a row, what did the 1st string offense do? You've got to score points against Brady. Did you see what he did to the 49ers? But see, the 49ers put points on the board.

I dont blame Gary, there's a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball. I believe he's so conservative because it helps hide the offensive flaws.

Uhm...I'm not talking about now (but way to feign ignorance) - I'm basically saying that you're giving Rex a pass for the equivalent of things you absolutely eviscerated Gary for back when we were going 8-8. What's the difference?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Well Kubiak has at least changed the guys in charge of the defense after they sucked (Although Richard Smith should've never ever ever have gotten a 2nd or 3rd year), whereas Ryan has stuck with Sanchez welllllllll past the expiration date.

Rex may not be the problem in NYJ, but whomever the person is saying "Keep starting Sanchez" is the problem, and they must hate the Jets as an organization.

In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

I agree with you to some extent (I don't believe Rex wanted or had anything to do with acquiring Tebow), but it's not like things were all that great last season. Remember the radio interview with McElroy after the season?

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

So Rex had nothing to do with the draft and free agency?

He stood behind Sanchez time after time, after time.
It's on him for not finding another QB.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

So Rex had nothing to do with the draft and free agency?

He stood behind Sanchez time after time, after time.
It's on him for not finding another QB.

If they could run the ball the way Rex wanted to run the ball, Sanchez can get them to the AFC Championship game. We saw it twice. That's Rex's way of falling on the sword for someone who shouldn't be blamed for what's happening in New York.

He supported Sanchez time after time because his options are Tebow & a 3rd round rookie.

I'm just speculating here, I have no idea what's going on in New York. But I think there's a power play going & the GM is trying to get rid of that loub mouth uncouth ba$tard.

& as far as Rex & the Draft picks go, that's like Kubiak drafting DTs.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

Uhm...I'm not talking about now (but way to feign ignorance) - I'm basically saying that you're giving Rex a pass for the equivalent of things you absolutely eviscerated Gary for back when we were going 8-8. What's the difference?

The only things that i didn't care for about Gary back then were

1. Coaches challenges, Remember the the 2:00 warning fiasco at Indy?
2. Terrible use of timeouts, Example, any number of Colts,Jags games
3. Overall conservatism, playcalling, not taking risks although the team was often outmanned. Example love affair with Chris/Kris Brown.

Was it wrong to point out Garys faults back then?

But Gary has improved. Anyway I'm talking about now not back then. Bottom line, the offense needs to improve if the Texans want to be a force in the playoffs. Spin it however you spin it, Rex has been a more successful HC than Gary to this point. Hopefully that's about to change.

[Texan_Bill]

Rex Ryan as a head coach - .548

Wade Phillips as a head coach - .581


In comparison:


Buddy Ryan - .500

Bum - .516

*****************

Texan v. Texan??

I think the Phillips' family wins!! And as an added bonus, Wade wins with the hottest daughter!!

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

There's no mystery, Faneca and Woody retired. The GM failed to replace them. Rex specialty is defense that's why I think Tannenbaum was iin charge of drafting offensive players. Sort of like Gary is in charge of drafting offensive guys and Wade defensive guys.

That and Sanchez regressed along with losing Holmes. Basically out of 60 plays Sanchez misread the defense 5-6 times and Sanchez threw inaccurate passes 5-6 times. You cant have 10-12 plays that are varing degrees of bad to terrible and have a successful offense, when you're only running 60-65 plays in a game.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

Rex Ryan as a head coach - .548

Wade Phillips as a head coach - .581


In comparison:


Buddy Ryan - .500

Bum - .516

*****************

Texan v. Texan??

I think the Phillips' family wins!! And as an added bonus, Wade wins with the hottest daughter!!

Most definitely, Wades wife must be hot, Tracey certainly didn't get her looks from Wade/Bum. LOL

Repped

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Spin it however you spin it, Rex has been a more successful HC than Gary to this point. Hopefully that's about to change.

while technically true, it's hardly a fair comparison. mangini had been putting together a solid roster that rex was able to take over instantly - and drive into the ground. one of those early playoff runs came at the texans expense because not 1, but 2 teams rolled over for the jets. capers put together nothing - that kubiak has since turned into arguably the best team in football. to say rex has done a better job just isnt accurate.

[rolyat93]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

During the 2-14 season, we never had a single lead in the first six games of the season.

Think about that for a second. 24 quarters - a month and a half of football - and they never had even a 1 point lead in a game.

Heck, we fired our OC (Chris Palmer) just two games into the season, iirc.

Yeah, that was a horrible season. Much worse, IMO, than the Jets 2012.

At least we got the #1 pick out of the deal.

Jets are sucking and are cap-strapped to Sanchez and most likely will be outside the top 12 in the draft.

[Surreal McCoy]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

So what do you think?

In 2009, Rex Ryan inherited the 9-7 NYJets that failed to make the play-offs & turned them into a 9-7 team that backed into the play-offs. They went on a magical run that culminated with a close loss in the AFC Championship.

They followed that up with an 11-5 season & another loss in the AFC Championship game.

In 2009, Kubiak's fourth season with the Texans. Considered by some to have underachieved in the previous three seasons (6-10, 8-8, 8-8) finally managed a winning season (9-7), but no play-off appearance.

2010, the Texans field one of the worst pass defenses in the history of the league & finish the season 6-10.

===================================

2011, rumblings from inside the Jets locker room become public. They finish the season 8-8

Meanwhile the Texans finish with a franchise best 10-6 season despite missing many key players throughout the season (Foster, Schaub, & Andre played less than 50 snaps together or something like that)... They host a play-off game as winners of the AFC South, they win that game against the Bengals & lose in Baltimore due to a rookie QB, and sub-par special teams play.

2012, The Jets have got to win out just to finish 9-7. The Texans can lose the rest of the way & finish 10-6. The Texans have been favored to win almost every game this season & are generally considered the favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl.

=====================================


If you were told that you could be the head coach of either of these teams, but you've got to win in 2013, winning will be defined as simply a winning season. Nothing about division champs, nothing about play-offs, all you have to do is have a winning season in 2013.....

which team would you pick? Imagine you can name your price for a wining season & you're permanently banned from any NFL activity in the future if you're 8-8 or worse.

Which HC/GM did a better job of building a team?

What's truly amazing is how many people on this very board would have given their left leg for Sexy Rexy back then, and probably some still would now! All we need(ed) is someone to yell at the players and curse a bit...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy

What's truly amazing is how many people on this very board would have given their left leg for Sexy Rexy back then, and probably some still would now! All we need(ed) is someone to yell at the players and curse a bit...

Surreal, thanks for joining in. However, as you can see from the entire thread, there's a lot towards making a good head coach. I think Gary's strength is team building. All the things that happen before game day. A lot of people think Rex's strength are the things that happen on game day. Like a lot of coaches, they also demonstrate "guru-like" mastery of their side of the ball & lack the ability to find a competent steward for the other.

[76Texan]

The Texans under Kubiak had a plan for rebuilding.

They do it the right way when they treat the players with respect, and demand the same thing in return through accountability.

As a coach, Gary learned and grew with the job, the same way most of us do.
I can't speak for nor answer to any geniuses on this board, but they have Mr. McNair to direct their question to.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The Texans under Kubiak had a plan for rebuilding.

I think this is the main thing.

Smithiak has been BUILDING this roster... to the point that it's now a talented roster.

Rex took a team that someone else built and was able to get it to the AFC Championship two times. But in the process, he made a bunch of moves that degraded the team. He hasn't shown he can build something.

Although, to be fair, as a Defensive Coordinator, the Ravens drafted some good players under him: Haloti Ngata, Lardarius Webb, Paul Kruger.