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Old 12-17-2012   #61
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
It's the NFL. Texans are near the top of the league in beating quality opponents and not losing to them. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2012/16/QS/

Ultimately, I think we are overthinking this. Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug. This year we're the windshield more.
No doubt!! I actually had us having one more loss than we do at this point.

What are you gonna do?
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Old 12-17-2012   #62
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

Relax... the Texans are just letting everyone believe, thats what they do everytime... then at the superbowl all of a sudden - bam, TD!

Just like at the NE game when they were holding back to get them in the playoffs...


... no, I don`t believe it either, but it`s way more fun to think that way...
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Old 12-17-2012   #63
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post

Ultimately, I think we are overthinking this. Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug. This year we're the windshield more.
True.... true.

It's amazing that we lose to the Patriots & everything about our team is bad. QB, Coach, Players, Defense, offense, running game, special teams...... well ok, our ST are bad.

But the Patriots do the same thing the following week & they're not so bad. They're still one of two teams we don't want to see in the play-offs.

I understand the Patriots have been there done that & maybe that affords them a pass, I can see how you wouldn't be worried about their ability to win a Super Bowl. But don't they do this every year? Get to the Super Bowl & lose? It feels like it anyway, & no one here would be happy if we get to the Super Bowl & lose.

It's going to be because our QB isn't clutch, it's going to be because our Coach is too conservative, it's going to be because you can't play man coverage against Kaepernick & Harbaugh...

Say, that reminds me. The Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl last year with a clutch, HOF QB & coaching combo & they didn't play a lot of man coverage.

We probably won't win the Super Bowl, but it won't be because of any of those things. It will be because that other team will be better than us that day. That's football. That's just the way it goes.
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Old 12-18-2012   #64
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This is the NFL, you take the points but you do not sissy up when in the red zone. Sure our QB is going to do what HC wants. But when you 3 and goal from the 7 you should at least try to reach the goal line. I saw where we sissyed up and kicked once or twice and we still won. But we have played some games where we needed 7 points and we got it so what do you do we have a HC while he is not the Best he is 12 and 2. Lets get behind him and hope we dont zig when we needed to Zag
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Old 12-18-2012   #65
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
This is the NFL, you take the points but you do not sissy up when in the red zone. Sure our QB is going to do what HC wants. But when you 3 and goal from the 7 you should at least try to reach the goal line. I saw where we sissyed up and kicked once or twice and we still won. But we have played some games where we needed 7 points and we got it so what do you do we have a HC while he is not the Best he is 12 and 2. Lets get behind him and hope we dont zig when we needed to Zag
Really not understanding why you mixed in some periods.

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Old 12-18-2012   #66
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
Arm strength has 0 to do with why we don't throw in the red zone. It's b/c the field is shorter, defenders are in closer proximity than they normally are, which makes them a little more agressive driving on short crossing routes & curls, def coordinators are less afraid of being burned if they choose to blitz...it's just too risky for an offense. Matt's right, against good teams you have to take the points when you can get them...don't even see why this is a debate.

Fans keep calling for that fade/jump ball throw to AJ like it's a surefire TD if we throw it to him just b/c on paper the match up favors us 9 out of 10 times. Those kind of throws are at best 50/50 balls b/c many times the db doesn't have to turn his back & run with the WR..he can just back up & get a hand on the ball....possibly tip it to himself or another nearby defender.

Last year this is all Stafford & Calvin Johnson did in the end zone & they were extremely successful...This year, not so much. & we all saw what happened to the Ravens right before the half yesterday trying to do this exact same thing; pick 6 the other way.


Maybe you mix up your playcalling a bit and run a few trick pass plays but for the most part i agree with schaub here & don't really have a problem with them taking the points.

Running the ball is a strength of ours, we've got 1 of the best rb's in the game that has a nose for the end zone.
Joe Flacco's pick wasn't a fade...It was a quick out route that Flacco just telegraphed all the way. Last year the fade with Stafford and Megatron was MONEY this year it's different because they don't even throw it because of the double coverage they have on Megatron once they reach the 5. The fade between Dalton and AJ Green is money as well as Romo/Dez, Ryan/Julio, Eli/Nicks(when healthy). When you have a 6'3 230 lb receiver who has a 40 inch vertical YOU HAVE TO THROW THE FADE AT LEAST ONCE. It's just stupid not to give it a try. As long as Schaub throws it right(which means high and to the sideline) it's INCREDIBLY hard to pick it off. Did you guys see Andre's catch when Schaub threw the back shoulder fade? Guess what? We could do that in the redzone as well. You're right when teams get into the redzone the coverage is much tighter which supports the argument of a fade to Andre as long as the coverage is 1 on 1.
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Old 12-18-2012   #67
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

I think fade routes are entirely overrated.

Most of the time it winds up a totally wasted down.
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Old 12-18-2012   #68
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by theNumber80 View Post
Joe Flacco's pick wasn't a fade...It was a quick out route that Flacco just telegraphed all the way. Last year the fade with Stafford and Megatron was MONEY this year it's different because they don't even throw it because of the double coverage they have on Megatron once they reach the 5. The fade between Dalton and AJ Green is money as well as Romo/Dez, Ryan/Julio, Eli/Nicks(when healthy). When you have a 6'3 230 lb receiver who has a 40 inch vertical YOU HAVE TO THROW THE FADE AT LEAST ONCE. It's just stupid not to give it a try. As long as Schaub throws it right(which means high and to the sideline) it's INCREDIBLY hard to pick it off. Did you guys see Andre's catch when Schaub threw the back shoulder fade? Guess what? We could do that in the redzone as well. You're right when teams get into the redzone the coverage is much tighter which supports the argument of a fade to Andre as long as the coverage is 1 on 1.

Lol, Stafford is throwing them, they just aren't converting them as much b/c teams know what they like to do once they get into the red zone...like i said in another post addressed to Rey "tendencies". The coverage that Calvin has been seeing has nothing to do with it b/c teams have been sending all kinds of crazy coverage to Megatron....even last year..... it just didn't matter. They just had 1 of those years where they converted an abnormally high # of those type of plays & this year water found it's level.

Getting back on topic though, That fade throw is also incredibly hard for the qb to throw just right for it to be converted. It's also incredibly hard for the WR to catch it & get both feet down in bounds/maintain possession all the way down as well. & with there being no force out rule in effect anymore...it's even harder...Like i said it's a 50-50 ball at best if everything is done perfect & you've got an elite guy out there. If 1 of those variable is even a little out of whack, then it's exactly what matrix31 says..a waste of a down.

& regardless of whether it's was a fade or an out route that Flacco threw the premise about what i'm saying about a db's mentality in the red zone holds true. They're more apt to gamble and drive on short routes b/c they have no fear of getting beat deep & they know the WR's will be running them. They already have the 5 yard chuck rule to further shrink the room available & mess up the timing of the route & if a qb still chooses to force it in there the chances of a pick go up even higher.

So yes the fade is a relatively safe play to run with potentially a big reward..More often than not however you're going to be in a 3rd & long with limited playcalling. & while you may not think this is true, 3rd and 8 plus is alot tougher to convert than 3rd and 5 or less. This assumes that you run the ball for 2.5 yds on all other downs. The playbook options are that much more wide open.
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Old 12-18-2012   #69
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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True.... true.

It's amazing that we lose to the Patriots & everything about our team is bad. QB, Coach, Players, Defense, offense, running game, special teams...... well ok, our ST are bad.

But the Patriots do the same thing the following week & they're not so bad. They're still one of two teams we don't want to see in the play-offs.

I understand the Patriots have been there done that & maybe that affords them a pass, I can see how you wouldn't be worried about their ability to win a Super Bowl. But don't they do this every year? Get to the Super Bowl & lose? It feels like it anyway, & no one here would be happy if we get to the Super Bowl & lose.

It's going to be because our QB isn't clutch, it's going to be because our Coach is too conservative, it's going to be because you can't play man coverage against Kaepernick & Harbaugh...

Say, that reminds me. The Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl last year with a clutch, HOF QB & coaching combo & they didn't play a lot of man coverage.

We probably won't win the Super Bowl, but it won't be because of any of those things. It will be because that other team will be better than us that day. That's football. That's just the way it goes.
Pats went to the SB 5 times since and counting the 2002 SB and won it 3 times, but their 2 losses are the last 2 against NYG and they haven't won a SB wince Feb. 6, 2005 (2004 season); so, it's been a lot of playoffs and no actual rings since then, not that we can look down on that.
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Old 12-18-2012   #70
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
Pats went to the SB 5 times since and counting the 2002 SB and won it 3 times, but their 2 losses are the last 2 against NYG and they haven't won a SB wince Feb. 6, 2005 (2004 season); so, it's been a lot of playoffs and no actual rings since then, not that we can look down on that.
I agree, I didn't mean anything derogatory towards the Patriots. I'd be happy if that was us since 2002. However, I already get the feeling that we can't win with some of our fans here. I've already heard, "this season means nothing if we don't win the Super Bowl."

& I think that's a crock. I'm not planning a parade or anything, But I do expect a party if we win the AFCCG in Houston and I would have no problem with fans wanting to meet the team at Reliant if they lose the Super Bowl.

This has been an amazing season, as is. We don't look like the best team in football, but we're winning. We're beating decent teams, not the elites, but decent teams.

It's just exhausting.
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Old 12-18-2012   #71
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I agree, I didn't mean anything derogatory towards the Patriots. I'd be happy if that was us since 2002. However, I already get the feeling that we can't win with some of our fans here. I've already heard, "this season means nothing if we don't win the Super Bowl."

& I think that's a crock. I'm not planning a parade or anything, But I do expect a party if we win the AFCCG in Houston and I would have no problem with fans wanting to meet the team at Reliant if they lose the Super Bowl.

This has been an amazing season, as is. We don't look like the best team in football, but we're winning. We're beating decent teams, not the elites, but decent teams.

It's just exhausting.
How would you feel if we lose the AFCC, presumably at home?
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Old 12-18-2012   #72
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
I'm concerned...BUT sometimes you have to come to terms with the fact that you're not going to get a TD on each drive and 3 is better than a goose-egg.
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Old 12-18-2012   #73
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
How would you feel if we lose the AFCC, presumably at home?
I'm not going to be mad at the coach. I'm not going to be mad at the players. I'm not going to be mad at the owner.

I'm going to be heartbroken with my team. I may not even watch the Super Bowl.

But I'm going to be excited & looking forward to next season expecting the best. Expecting to win the Super Bowl.
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Old 12-18-2012   #74
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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I'm not going to be mad at the coach. I'm not going to be mad at the players. I'm not going to be mad at the owner.

I'm going to be heartbroken with my team. I may not even watch the Super Bowl.

But I'm going to be excited & looking forward to next season expecting the best. Expecting to win the Super Bowl.
Yeah, I guess that's about where I'm at.
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Old 12-18-2012   #75
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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
How would you feel if we lose the AFCC, presumably at home?
Upset with the loss, but I have no idea how I'd feel about the players and coaches. I would need to see how we lost.
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Old 12-18-2012   #76
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

I think it is a BIG issue come playoff time, the 3rd and long draws are getting predictable and ridiculous. 3's won't work against the Pats or Broncos giving their ability to score quickly. Schaub needs to learn to throw it up to AJ ONCE AND AWHILE, the guy is a beast, why no corner fades in the red zone???
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Old 12-18-2012   #77
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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I think it is a BIG issue come playoff time, the 3rd and long draws are getting predictable and ridiculous. 3's won't work against the Pats or Broncos giving their ability to score quickly. Schaub needs to learn to throw it up to AJ ONCE AND AWHILE, the guy is a beast, why no corner fades in the red zone???
We did throw the fade once in a while.
It doesn't work all that well.
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Old 12-18-2012   #78
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
People would be freaking out today if they tried to throw and it got picked. They'd be screaming what an idiot Kubiak is for not playing the percentages and taking the easy points of a gimme FG.

Remember this hehe...

THE PLAY
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Old 01-10-2013   #79
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Cool Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

Just bumping this, since it has become heated conversation after the Bengals game and leading into the Pats game.

Brady > FGs

Here's to hoping we have a coming out party or it is announced Schaub is having major surgery when the season is done.
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Old 01-10-2013   #80
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
Combine these thoughts with the recient Kubiak statements about checking down in the red zone and I think its clear that Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub so we try to avoid mistakes as an offensive style.
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