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Old 12-17-2012   #41
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
People would be freaking out today if they tried to throw and it got picked. They'd be screaming what an idiot Kubiak is for not playing the percentages and taking the easy points of a gimme FG.
You are probably right...

People would also freak out if Kubiak kept settling for field goals and the ST didn't bail us out with scoring a TD...


Chester Pitts was just on the radio and he said that he did not like when Kubiak would get into the Red Zone and call plays like that. He said that they had done all the work to get down there and then all of a sudden they start calling plays differently.

He didn't say Kubiak was too conservative...he kind of danced around it. But he did say that he didn't like the way the plays were called in the Red Zone.
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Old 12-17-2012   #42
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
Yes it worries be a little. I'd rather have a coach and QB that are pissed that they didn't drop a 7 spot on their opponents noggin. I wish Kubiak would call some things differently...But whatever...They have more information than I do so they may see something that we don't...

I just don't like the "meh" attitude they have about it. It's almost like they are content with field goals and don't want to risk going for a TD when things get a little dicey.

I don't think Kubiak trusts his offense in those situations. Whatever. He thinks he needs to shelter them...And he would know best...
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Old 12-17-2012   #43
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

The redzone stuff doesn't always bother me, but the third and long playcalling we have in other parts of the field does bother me. Sure if it's 3rd and 18 at the 3, by all means just call a draw and create more punting room. But half the time they design playcalls that don't get enough yards or whatever. Sometimes i'm all in favor of the ****** it attitude on 3rd and long, and just throw it deep. If it gets picked, it's about the same thing as a punt anyway.
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Old 12-17-2012   #44
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I remember. So that makes the record 1-2, not 1-1. Was just pointing out the loss you overlooked is all.
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
You are probably right...

People would also freak out if Kubiak kept settling for field goals and the ST didn't bail us out with scoring a TD...


Chester Pitts was just on the radio and he said that he did not like when Kubiak would get into the Red Zone and call plays like that. He said that they had done all the work to get down there and then all of a sudden they start calling plays differently.

He didn't say Kubiak was too conservative...he kind of danced around it. But he did say that he didn't like the way the plays were called in the Red Zone.
To be honest with you, Rey.

I've listened to Chester quite a bit; he doesn't have a real clue what the Texans are all about.

There are plenty of things he doesn't know.
He simply doesn't have enough time to watch the Texans; Some of the things he said. He's definitely NOT in the INs.
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Old 12-17-2012   #45
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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So my question to you is what makes you think that Schaub's coaches & teammates don't think that he has that elite leadership you're speaking of? B/c you could argue his even-kiel attitude is the very definition of what an elite leader is supposed to be. It was the defining characteristic of tons of qb leaders over the years, namely Joe Montana of course.
They might. He may have it already. I don't know. If we go on to win the Super Bowl I'd have no choice but to believe he does.

Unless our defense becomes the Baltimore or Tampa Bay Super Bowl winning defenses, there's no way we'll win a Super Bowl if Matt isn't that kind of leader.
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Old 12-17-2012   #46
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
People don't blitz on passing plays all that often in the redzone. It makes much more sense to sit back in a zone and force the QB to throw into a tight window. If he tries to run it, you have people looking at him.

QB's that can move well and put pressure on the defense with their legs and/or arm tend to have a lot of RED ZONE success.

And I disagree that arm strength doesn't have anything to do with it. IMO it has A LOT to do with it. You said it yourself...The windows are smaller. Arm strength becomes more apparent in shorter spaces. Guys with guns can zip balls into tight spaces on a regular basis. Having some mobility also helps because it makes defenders abandon their zones to stop the QB from running.

Schaub doesn't have either one of those attributes going for him and that's why he's never been a really good Red Zone QB.
It's a matter of philosophy & situation & tendencies imo. a d-coordinator might choose to blitz if he's trying to force the qb to throw it quickly allowing the db's to sit & drive on those short routes that they know the WR's are going to be running b/c the fear of getting beat deep is pretty much non-existent.

& ok, maybe zero percent was a bit of an exageration...maybe it has about 10% to do with it simply b/c even at the egde of the redzone a 20 yd. throw is nothing for any NFL qb to make & put on a rope...even for guys like schaub....As long as he can step into his throw. His arm strength issues really only rears it's head when he's throwing deep.
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Old 12-17-2012   #47
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
To be honest with you, Rey.

I've listened to Chester quite a bit; he doesn't have a real clue what the Texans are all about.

There are plenty of things he doesn't know.
He simply doesn't have enough time to watch the Texans; Some of the things he said. He's definitely NOT in the INs.
Which has nothing to do with his statements because he was talking about when he played for Kubiak.

He specifically said that when he played Kubiak would go to a different set of play calls for the Red Zone and he didn't like that. He was not commenting on anything they do now. He was recalling his own experiences.

Not sure what that has to do with his analysis.

And BTW, I listen to him a bunch and he is pretty good. He backs the team and their decisions a bunch, so I find it strange that you'd find his takes as ignorant.
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Old 12-17-2012   #48
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
To be honest with you

I've listened to Chester quite a bit; he doesn't have a real clue what the Texans are all about.

There are plenty of things he doesn't know.
He simply doesn't have enough time to watch the Texans; Some of the things he said. He's definitely NOT in the INs.
'76 c'mon. He played for Kubiak, he's talking about his experience, especially on the situation Rey mentioned.

I think there is another issue here. Pitts doesn't like Kubiak. I don't remember all of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure he wanted to play LT. Kubiak tried him there, didn't like it & put him at LG.

I also don't think he was crazy about the ZBS. He was one of the strongest players on the team & before his leg injury, would have been able to start on any power O team in the league.

I personally think he holds back his opinion a lot. I think he likes the Texans, don't want to say anything negative (I mean he's got a job to keep) but he doesn't like Kubiak. If you were to push him, I bet he'd be able to tell us some stories.
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Old 12-17-2012   #49
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Which has nothing to do with his statements because he was talking about when he played for Kubiak.

He specifically said that when he played Kubiak would go to a different set of play calls for the Red Zone and he didn't like that. He was not commenting on anything they do now. He was recalling his own experiences.

Not sure what that has to do with his analysis.

And BTW, I listen to him a bunch and he is pretty good. He backs the team and their decisions a bunch, so I find it strange that you'd find his takes as ignorant.
I can't say I remember the exact words, but last night he said something that I can say for sure, he's not IN.

I've always like Pitts as a person, and he wasn't a bad player either.
He just wasn't much into the cut blocking scheme.
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Old 12-17-2012   #50
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
'76 c'mon. He played for Kubiak, he's talking about his experience, especially on the situation Rey mentioned.

I think there is another issue here. Pitts doesn't like Kubiak. I don't remember all of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure he wanted to play LT. Kubiak tried him there, didn't like it & put him at LG.

I also don't think he was crazy about the ZBS. He was one of the strongest players on the team & before his leg injury, would have been able to start on any power O team in the league.

I personally think he holds back his opinion a lot. I think he likes the Texans, don't want to say anything negative (I mean he's got a job to keep) but he doesn't like Kubiak. If you were to push him, I bet he'd be able to tell us some stories.
I wasn't talking about what he said today, because I didn't listen to it.
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Old 12-17-2012   #51
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
It's a matter of philosophy & situation & tendencies imo. a d-coordinator might choose to blitz if he's trying to force the qb to throw it quickly allowing the db's to sit & drive on those short routes that they know the WR's are going to be running b/c the fear of getting beat deep is pretty much non-existent.


Teams don't blitz a lot in the RZ because you are almost giving up the quick pass.

When you are in the middle of the field and you blitz, guys will play off the recievers a little bit and drive on the short routes because they figure with the blitz they don't have much time to do a double move. if the guy catches the ball, ok...Just make the tackle...

In the redzone you generally don't want to concede any yardage...and then if the WR catches the ball and the guy in coverage on them misses that's almost a guaranteed TD because now you are so thin back in coverage.

Quote:
& ok, maybe zero percent was a bit of an exageration...maybe it has about 10% to do with it simply b/c even at the egde of the redzone a 20 yd. throw is nothing for any NFL qb to make & put on a rope...even for guys like schaub....As long as he can step into his throw. His arm strength issues really only rears it's head when he's throwing deep.

When throwing deep you can actually hide your arm more, by making faster reads and throwing the ball early. I think Schaub's deep ball passes have some to do with his arm strength, but where it shows up more than any other place is when he has to throw into really tight spaces i.e. the RZ.

But we can agree to disagree on this. No biggie.
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Old 12-17-2012   #52
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

not when the FG range is anything from 45-50 yards out not with this kicker ur better off just punting it or trying to convert a 1st down
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Old 12-17-2012   #53
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
Not me. This is a foot-on-the-throat, grind-out-a-win type of football. This is COWHER type of football (for those people still wanting Cowher in here.) That's Parcells type of football.

Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.
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Old 12-17-2012   #54
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.
Interesting. I still cannot get my head around the way we played Baltimore in the divisional round last year. I thought that was so anti-Kubiak, so maybe you've got a point.

But the way I see it, without an "elite" QB, to win consistently against the "elite" QBs, we're going to have to keep them off the field. I know that goes against the grain of where the NFL is right now, but the NFL is cyclical. Putting together a good run game & a good defense is easier than finding a franchise QB. Even looking at Andrew Luck yesterday, I'm not sold that the Colts hit the lottery everyone thinks they did.
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Old 12-17-2012   #55
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Not me. This is a foot-on-the-throat, grind-out-a-win type of football. This is COWHER type of football (for those people still wanting Cowher in here.) That's Parcells type of football.

Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.
Thank you TPN. So often people here suggest that the coaching staff does not want everything in the cupboard on film and I agree with this. Though I have no way of proving it except letting the powers that be prove it throughout the playoffs which are right around the corner. That "Denny's Menu" so often discussed I believe will get a lot thicker during the run. Depending on how deep we go and the situations that will most assuredly present themselves I think there will be some calls that leaves this fanbase and others thinking "Where the hell did that come from? I've never seen that before." I think Kubiak is just setting up the pieces. This chess match isn't over. Heck, it hasn't even really started yet. All that keyboard poking to say: Get your ready.

I hope.
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Old 12-17-2012   #56
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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No, it doesn't. It's correct if unappealing on the surface. Sometimes I wish they'd get their gamble on a little more but it's not like this doesn't work. It's obviously working just fine and has been since, well probably since 2007 to be honest.

Gary fixed the offense (fixed by his definition I think) in 2007 when he brought Schaub in and our offensive stats started climbing. What he didn't fix was the defense and that is why we were looking at 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, and 6-10. A defense of any ability on those teams probably turns that into at least a few 10+ win seasons with a little luck against the injury bug mixed in.

We're good. Remains to be seen if we're good enough but you know, after watching the 49'ers in the first half of their game last night make the Patriots look like us when we played the Patriots, and then nearly collapse and give it all away I'm forced to conclude that NFL football is a game of preparedness and controlled emotion. We're as good as any team in the league. Getting better isn't going to happen because there is no "better" in terms of collected talent out there. It's about coaching and consistency and finding a spark ("it" factor, whatever). Teams get hot and cold through the course of the year and we talk about peaking too soon or too late. Harbaugh changed out Smith for Kapernick (sp?) and at the time I thought he was making a mistake but Kap gives them a spark and the rest is already in place. Coaching is solid, talent level is consistent with a contender, and they have enough experience to handle adversity. Add a spark and things happen.

The Texans are young, don't all know how to handle adversity too well, and at least on the offensive side we don't have anyone giving us that spark consistently. Sometimes AJ can do it, Foster can get rolling and make it happen. Every once in a while Schaub has a magic day where he can do it. No one there consistently does it though. Not like Watt does on the defensive side. That's the difference between Schaub and the Bradys and Rogers of the world. Mostly Schaub runs the machine and sometimes he provides the energy with his play. Those other guys that get the elite title get it because they make it happen most of the time and when they don't get it done that's the exception to the rule.

What we've been seeing for most of the last 6-7 games has been a good team with no spark on offense. We're just good enough to beat most teams and we got lucky a little too. AJ stepped up and put the team on his shoulders for a few weeks.

Somebody on the offense needs to throw this thing on his shoulders and lead on the field, hold everyone else accountable, and provide the spark that makes the offense run like it is capable of running during the playoffs. Doesn't matter who but someone needs to bring the energy. That's what I think anyway.

I don't hold this over Kubiak anymore. He built the kind of offense that he knows how to build and he's seen it work in the past. It's up to the guys on the field to make plays now.
Repped.
I've been singing this mantra for years. The coach/coordinators can only call plays. The players have to step up/man up and beat the guy in front of them and MAKE the plays. If they don't, no play call will work. But when they do, it's a thing of beauty.

Did y'all see Brady and Welker going up and down the Pats' sideline pumping up their teammates. It got them back in the game. That's the "Bring the Energy" part you spoke of. We gotta have some guys on offense do that like Watt and Cushing (man, we miss him) do it on defense.
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Old 12-17-2012   #57
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

Can't think of a better place to drop this.... since we're talking about breaking tendencies & the Denny's Menu.

Listening to the Kubiak show, they asked him about the script in the second half. Kubiak said yeah, they had a script, but since the first few plays were going so well, he scrapped the script & went heavily on the run.

The first drive after the half, Foster had a big run, then a pass to Andre, then we ran it down the field the rest of the way. we used up about 6 minutes on that drive even though we stalled in the redzone & kicked a field goal.
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Old 12-17-2012   #58
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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people don't blitz on passing plays all that often in the redzone. It makes much more sense to sit back in a zone and force the qb to throw into a tight window. If he tries to run it, you have people looking at him.

Qb's that can move well and put pressure on the defense with their legs and/or arm tend to have a lot of red zone success.

And i disagree that arm strength doesn't have anything to do with it. imo it has a lot to do with it. You said it yourself...the windows are smaller. Arm strength becomes more apparent in shorter spaces. Guys with guns can zip balls into tight spaces on a regular basis. Having some mobility also helps because it makes defenders abandon their zones to stop the qb from running.

Schaub doesn't have either one of those attributes going for him and that's why he's never been a really good red zone qb
.
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Old 12-17-2012   #59
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Not me. This is a foot-on-the-throat, grind-out-a-win type of football. This is COWHER type of football (for those people still wanting Cowher in here.) That's Parcells type of football.

Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.
More concerning for me was the two games against two upper tier teams and the results of those two games coupled with how the Texans played. They weren't even competitive. I couldn't care less if we kick 9 field goals and win 27 to 10... Every Super Bowl winner has had ugly wins (with exception of the '85 Bears)...

I don't think teams look for tendancies with the Texans. I think they look at the Texans and think (first thought) should we shut down their running game or take out the passing game? No matter what we pick, what adjustments can we make to slow down the other part of that equation.
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Old 12-17-2012   #60
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
More concerning for me was the two games against two upper tier teams and the results of those two games coupled with how the Texans played. They weren't even competitive. I couldn't care less if we kick 9 field goals and win 27 to 10... Every Super Bowl winner has had ugly wins (with exception of the '85 Bears)...

I don't think teams look for tendancies with the Texans. I think they look at the Texans and think (first thought) should we shut down their running game or take out the passing game? No matter what we pick, what adjustments can we make to slow down the other part of that equation.
It's the NFL. Texans are near the top of the league in beating quality opponents and not losing to them. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2012/16/QS/

Ultimately, I think we are overthinking this. Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug. This year we're the windshield more.
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