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Old 12-17-2012   #1
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Cool "You take the 3 points and move on"

So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
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Old 12-17-2012   #2
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
It absolutely worries me. Sure, you dont throw into double coverage, but you shouldn't do that anyway. Throw a safe pass to the corner of the end zone, either our guy gets it, or its an incomplete. However, I dont think Schaub is good enough to make that throw consistently. That may be why we dont ever see that throw.
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Old 12-17-2012   #3
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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It absolutely worries me. Sure, you dont throw into double coverage, but you shouldn't do that anyway. Throw a safe pass to the corner of the end zone, either our guy gets it, or its an incomplete. However, I dont think Schaub is good enough to make that throw consistently. That may be why we dont ever see that throw.
I agree. The draw play from there gives you the worst odds of scoring a TD or even making a positive play. Put the ball in the QB's hands. Maybe he can hit someone on a slant that scores. Maybe he sees nothing & he throws it away.

However, I think Kubiak saw 2 plays get blown up, another mistake just waiting to happen. So he went with the safest play. I guarantee no one would be giving Gary a pass, if he called a fade to Andre that's picked off & changes the momentum of the game.

This team (as we saw against New England) is still capable of giving games away.

I don't agree with that approach. They'll never grow if you keep protecting them. I like what Harbaugh is doing with his green QB. That guy made some bone headed decisions, but the rest of the team stepped up & minimized their effects. We tend to snowball. He needs to figure out why that's the case & fix it. I think it's because we have such a hodge-podge of players on offense, only two first round picks. Two guys who are used to winning, expect to win.

Defensively we've got the pedigree, of guys who expect to win.
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Old 12-17-2012   #4
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

Not every offense can consitantly hang 3 burgers on fools!!!
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Old 12-17-2012   #5
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?

No, it doesn't. It's correct if unappealing on the surface. Sometimes I wish they'd get their gamble on a little more but it's not like this doesn't work. It's obviously working just fine and has been since, well probably since 2007 to be honest.

Gary fixed the offense (fixed by his definition I think) in 2007 when he brought Schaub in and our offensive stats started climbing. What he didn't fix was the defense and that is why we were looking at 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, and 6-10. A defense of any ability on those teams probably turns that into at least a few 10+ win seasons with a little luck against the injury bug mixed in.

We're good. Remains to be seen if we're good enough but you know, after watching the 49'ers in the first half of their game last night make the Patriots look like us when we played the Patriots, and then nearly collapse and give it all away I'm forced to conclude that NFL football is a game of preparedness and controlled emotion. We're as good as any team in the league. Getting better isn't going to happen because there is no "better" in terms of collected talent out there. It's about coaching and consistency and finding a spark ("it" factor, whatever). Teams get hot and cold through the course of the year and we talk about peaking too soon or too late. Harbaugh changed out Smith for Kapernick (sp?) and at the time I thought he was making a mistake but Kap gives them a spark and the rest is already in place. Coaching is solid, talent level is consistent with a contender, and they have enough experience to handle adversity. Add a spark and things happen.

The Texans are young, don't all know how to handle adversity too well, and at least on the offensive side we don't have anyone giving us that spark consistently. Sometimes AJ can do it, Foster can get rolling and make it happen. Every once in a while Schaub has a magic day where he can do it. No one there consistently does it though. Not like Watt does on the defensive side. That's the difference between Schaub and the Bradys and Rogers of the world. Mostly Schaub runs the machine and sometimes he provides the energy with his play. Those other guys that get the elite title get it because they make it happen most of the time and when they don't get it done that's the exception to the rule.

What we've been seeing for most of the last 6-7 games has been a good team with no spark on offense. We're just good enough to beat most teams and we got lucky a little too. AJ stepped up and put the team on his shoulders for a few weeks.

Somebody on the offense needs to throw this thing on his shoulders and lead on the field, hold everyone else accountable, and provide the spark that makes the offense run like it is capable of running during the playoffs. Doesn't matter who but someone needs to bring the energy. That's what I think anyway.

I don't hold this over Kubiak anymore. He built the kind of offense that he knows how to build and he's seen it work in the past. It's up to the guys on the field to make plays now.
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Last edited by Hervoyel; 12-17-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 12-17-2012   #6
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
Not really. It's just smart football. It's not always pretty but it works. We scream at the TV when we see it but the end result is the same. 12 times Kubiak & Schaub have won this season using that strategy. We could add more from last year as well. The system works most of the time. Actually Kubiak's system has worked more times this season than Belichick's system. No reason to be worried.
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Old 12-17-2012   #7
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

We typically don't beat teams that Kubiak believes we can't "settle for FG's" against. EX: Peyton's Colts, Rodgers, Brady, Brees. When Kubiak feels like he has to be aggressive in his playcalling we make bad decisions.
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Old 12-17-2012   #8
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

Arm strength has 0 to do with why we don't throw in the red zone. It's b/c the field is shorter, defenders are in closer proximity than they normally are, which makes them a little more agressive driving on short crossing routes & curls, def coordinators are less afraid of being burned if they choose to blitz...it's just too risky for an offense. Matt's right, against good teams you have to take the points when you can get them...don't even see why this is a debate.

Fans keep calling for that fade/jump ball throw to AJ like it's a surefire TD if we throw it to him just b/c on paper the match up favors us 9 out of 10 times. Those kind of throws are at best 50/50 balls b/c many times the db doesn't have to turn his back & run with the WR..he can just back up & get a hand on the ball....possibly tip it to himself or another nearby defender.

Last year this is all Stafford & Calvin Johnson did in the end zone & they were extremely successful...This year, not so much. & we all saw what happened to the Ravens right before the half yesterday trying to do this exact same thing; pick 6 the other way.


Maybe you mix up your playcalling a bit and run a few trick pass plays but for the most part i agree with schaub here & don't really have a problem with them taking the points.

Running the ball is a strength of ours, we've got 1 of the best rb's in the game that has a nose for the end zone.
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Old 12-17-2012   #9
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

We've had red zone problems for a while now. Not sure what the problem is
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Old 12-17-2012   #10
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Somebody on the offense needs to throw this thing on his shoulders and lead on the field, hold everyone else accountable, and provide the spark that makes the offense run like it is capable of running during the playoffs. Doesn't matter who but someone needs to bring the energy. That's what I think anyway.
Solid post Hervoyel. I agree with everything you said, except, I believe that person has to be Matt Schaub. No two ways about it.

He's the QB, he runs the offense. I don't mean that he needs to be Tom Brady. I don't think he needs to run up the stats. He needs to be the leader.

I know, you'll have some guys coming in here & saying to a T the guys in the locker room point towards Matt Schaub being the leader of the offense, but he needs to take it to another level.

When we need a play, Matt should be able to demand it from his guys & they should deliver. If that's not happening, he's not the guy we need.

He's not elite, we know that. He's not clutch, we know that. He's not athletic, we know that. He doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, we know that. For him to be the guy to keep us in Super Bowl contention year in & year out, Matt has to be the kind of leader we see in the great QBs.

It's obvious when you look at Young, Montana, Aikman, Brady, Manning. He doesn't have to yell at the players on the field, those guys may have done that, but that's not what made them great leaders.

Is Schaub the leader of offense? Sure. Is he a great leader?

I think we're about to find out.
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Old 12-17-2012   #11
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Cool Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

I'll rep and read the responses later, some very well thought out replies.

Something relevant that should have been in the OP - they were apparently very worried about the edge rushers the entire game. He did not reference that when speaking to the field goals, but seems like Schaub and Kubiak we worried about the D's ability to get to Schaub.

That may have factored into the conservative play/attitude.
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Old 12-17-2012   #12
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
We typically don't beat teams that Kubiak believes we can't "settle for FG's" against. EX: Peyton's Colts, Rodgers, Brady, Brees. When Kubiak feels like he has to be aggressive in his playcalling we make bad decisions.
Kubiak is 1-1 against Rodgers and Brees.
He's 1-2 against Brady, but the team he took over was in rebuilding mode.
We lost a bunch to Manning for the same reason (several games were close).

This system has been proven with the Broncos for a long time, and now here.

With a top 10 defense it brings competitive (play-off contending) years in and years out.

Percentage football, that's what I always call it.

P.S. - Nice post, Herv.
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Old 12-17-2012   #13
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

Also, I'm not sure it's accurate to put it on Schaub. He's a very politically correct guy and he's going to echo the coach regardless.
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Old 12-17-2012   #14
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

I don't like it because our kicker's name needs to be Shank Graham.
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Old 12-17-2012   #15
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

As a rule, it doesn't bother me. Like any rule, however, it should always be breakable. There are times, like the first FG of the game yesterday, when you take the FG and don't look back. I get the frustration on that series, because it's been building in fans for years. But it's absolutely correct to take the FG. What bothers me about the mindset is that it seems to have removed any thought of even TRYING at times. If it's 3rd and long, there are plays you can run that are reasonable in their risk vs. reward that actually give a chance to accomplish something. A 3rd and long draw play is simply giving up. That's the right move sometimes, but not to the point that Kubiak and Schaub do it.

At the end of it all, I get the feeling that Kubiak is so much a control freak that he won't entrust his QB and offense to take a shot. Whether he can trust them or not, this is the team that he put together. So if he thinks he can't trust them to take a shot at the end zone without turning it over, then why the hell did he choose players he can't trust?
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Old 12-17-2012   #16
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Kubiak is 1-1 against Rodgers and Brees.
Lost to Brees last year, lost to Rodgers this year. Didn't read the rest.
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Old 12-17-2012   #17
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Lost to Brees last year, lost to Rodgers this year. Didn't read the rest.
Won against them before.
How can you not remember the frozen tundra?
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Old 12-17-2012   #18
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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I don't like it because our kicker's name needs to be Shank Graham.
Shayne Graham is the team's sole ginger. Gingers have no soul. Discuss....

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Old 12-17-2012   #19
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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Won against them before.
How can you not remember the frozen tundra?
I remember. So that makes the record 1-2, not 1-1. Was just pointing out the loss you overlooked is all.
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Old 12-17-2012   #20
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Default Re: "You take the 3 points and move on"

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I remember. So that makes the record 1-2, not 1-1. Was just pointing out the loss you overlooked is all.
Texans had a 23-10 win against Brees, don't you remember?
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