The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK thread

[buddyboy]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's about pointing out the shortcomings I see in an effort to wake people up to the realization about Kubiak that I came to long ago. I don't expect Kubiak to be fired tomorrow, nor would I want that. But I do not believe that he will ever win a Super Bowl with this team and I do not trust him to win big games.

Honestly, this thread is no different than the ongoing Fire David Carr thread back in the day. Some people came to the conclusion that Carr was not the guy long before others did and tried to explain why they came to that conclusion. Other people bashed them for their opinion and argued against it. We'll see who's wrong or right about this issue, but it isn't about that, IMO. It's about identifying weaknesses in the team and analyzing it. Every single week this team goes up against a good team, the checkmark for coaching goes to the other team. That's an area that can be improved. Since I want this team to win a Super Bowl, I am going to keep pointing out that deficiency in the hopes that enough people will finally recognize the truth and sway public opinion. Plenty of people will disagree with me, and that's fine. I'm trying to be as respectful in my arguments as possible, because it's all just opinion.

I can understand believing that Kubiak will not ever bring us to a Superbowl. I can see the deficiencies, but I think every coach has deficiencies and that these flaws that people see in Kubiak aren't so severe that a superbowl is impossible. I'd say we have just as much of a chance with any other coach out there outside of Belichick class coaches.

But if you truly don't think Kubiak will take us there, and you've said the goal is the Superbowl, why wouldn't you be calling for his firing? Otherwise, you're changing public opinion to...what?

[Exascor]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

It will continue to be moved, but your reasoning is dead wrong. The reason is actually much simpler - we want a Super Bowl. When you're a 2-14 team, the target is to improve. When you're an 8-8 team, the target becomes having a winning record and maybe making the payoffs. When you've made the playoffs, the target becomes winning a Super Bowl. If you seriously think your team is a Super Bowl contender, then you expect to see certain indicators to that effect. Winning games against elite competition is one such indicator. Losing those games tends to indicate that your team will lose big games in the playoffs. Hence the frustration.

I'm with you. I want to win the Superbowl. This year. Every year. It's a tough goal to have though. REALLY tough.

You know what Kubiak and Belichick have in common? Neither has won a Superbowl since Kubiak became a head coach. Oh yeah - Belichick has Brady too.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Marcus

And that falls flat when you consider what choices he had at that particular time. When Ben Jones, the rookie, wasn't getting the job done, who did he have an an alternative at the time. When he using Jacoby Jones at the time, what was his alternative, at the time? Just a little bit too much second guessing born out of hindsight, but I realize by now, this is the way it works. Monday morning quarterbacking reigning supreme.

You cannot win every battle in the trench to begin with.
A ZBS scheme like ours normally have smaller linemen.
You win some, you lose some.
The RB has to read the block and make the right decision.
The QB has to hit the open man.
The receivers (especially the more reliable veterans) have to make the catch.

It seems like some people wants an All-Star line-up; and they will also be the first to complain about the cap situation.

[Doppelganger]

I am not sure I should post in here...

[Foxboro Steve]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Take the time to go through each situation from both those links.

At the end of the day, people should realize that all this third and long stuff is just smoke.

I just did it for NE.

On third and greater than 9 to go, the Pats ran the ball 8 times, converted one first down. They threw the ball 46 times, converting 17. 37% converted via pass.

In the same situation, Houston passed 38 times, converting 7. 18% conversion rate. You also threw 4 picks. You guys ran it an astounding 22 times, converting the aforementioned one time. That would wind the ever loving snot out of me as well.

The difference between staffs? I bet Belichick knew this off the top of his head, and clearly, who ever is calling plays for you guys, doesn't. Now, this is the old "put the ball in the hands of our best player" theory. But, as eriadoc has pointed out, it ain't working.

what a neat toy that is!

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Foxboro Steve

I just did it for NE.

On third and greater than 9 to go, the Pats ran the ball 8 times, converted one first down. They threw the ball 46 times, converting 17. 37% converted via pass.

In the same situation, Houston passed 38 times, converting 7. 18% conversion rate. You also threw 4 picks. You guys ran it an astounding 22 times, converting the aforementioned one time. That would wind the ever loving snot out of me as well.

The difference between staffs? I bet Belichick knew this off the top of his head, and clearly, who ever is calling plays for you guys, doesn't. Now, this is the old "put the ball in the hands of our best player" theory. But, as eriadoc has pointed out, it ain't working.

what a neat toy that is!

You forgot to consider the situations a I had mentioned in an earlier post.

There are only but a few times that are true situations when we need to convert using the run (you can count it with one hand).

One out of five, for example, is 20%.


...

You can sort the plays by date by clicking on the headline "date" in that particular column.

We had 4 situations in the Dolphins game, for instance.

In the second quarter, facing 3rd and 20 at their 20, we opted to run.

Then we kicked the FG to take the lead.

Our defense was playing great; the call is not too conservative there.

The other 3 times was in the fourth quarter, when we already had a big lead.

Run the ball, punt, and play defense.

We were not giving the Dolphins anything the whole day, nothing is going to or needs to change now.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Here are the numbers for this year.

With the run:

That thing is not accurate. I just started looking at game logs to post here, and then I realized I don't give a damn enough to bother going through 13 games worth of game logs to prove something that's evident to even a casual fan. Nonetheless, the second game log I looked at had the exact situation I talk about. The team was up, but the game was far from over, and it was 3rd and long inside the 10. Draw play to the right for 6 yards, then punt. Then gave up a TD to make it interesting. That wasn't listed at your link.

I'm not even going over that crap. It's not worth my time. But if you want to use your link for stats, you need to cross reference it with some game logs on NFL.com. Your link is incomplete.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Marcus

That is absolutely no reason to be excusing player performance.

I do not disagree with you. However, this is a Kubiak thread. And this team respresents Kubiak as a head coach, from his coaching staff all the way down to the bench.

Originally Posted by Marcus

That is absolutely no reason to be excusing player performance. I've seen that response come up every single time we have this never ending proverbial players vs. coaches debate, and I think it's weak. The players need to be held just as accountable as the coaches. To only point a finger at the coaches, screams "quick fix". And quick fixes do not exist.

I did not excuse player performance. You can think it's weak, your right to an opinion.

The point being that the buck stops at Kubiak at the end of the day. His players, his schemes, his preparation, his playcalling. The players can only run the plays given to them. Gary calls all of those on offense.

ONE MAN - Kubiak - has more influence on games than any other person in this organization.

BTW, I'm not advocating quick fix or firing Kubiak at this point. I'm just saying that all the blind and delusional homer glasses that some folks wear need to be taken off. Kubiak is much like Norv Turner to me right now. He can put together a solid regular season team, but his team has yet to be anything until they earn it. I think we just need to be pragmatic and accept the limitations accordingly. The difference between criticism and skepticism.

He got his ass handed to him by Belichick last night. I do not see some magical transformation in the playoffs where Kubiak could out-coach Belichick. A team like the Patriots would have to beat themselves for us to win a playoff game, which is highly unlikely.

[Foxboro Steve]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

You forgot to consider the situations a I had mentioned in an earlier post.

There are only but a few times that are true situations when we need to convert using the run (you can count it with one hand).

One out of five, for example, is 20%

Forgive me for being the noob, but I am not following you. Why wouldn't you want to convert? Running the ball 22 times on 3rd and greater than nine to go seems excessive to me. It's not like Foster is your only option. Johnson is the #1 or #1a WR in the league. Daniels is no slouch at TE.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Foxboro Steve

I just did it for NE.

On third and greater than 9 to go, the Pats ran the ball 8 times, converted one first down. They threw the ball 46 times, converting 17. 37% converted via pass.

In the same situation, Houston passed 38 times, converting 7. 18% conversion rate. You also threw 4 picks. You guys ran it an astounding 22 times, converting the aforementioned one time. That would wind the ever loving snot out of me as well.

The difference between staffs? I bet Belichick knew this off the top of his head, and clearly, who ever is calling plays for you guys, doesn't. Now, this is the old "put the ball in the hands of our best player" theory. But, as eriadoc has pointed out, it ain't working.

what a neat toy that is!

Originally Posted by Foxboro Steve

Forgive me for being the noob, but I am not following you. Why wouldn't you want to convert? Running the ball 22 times on 3rd and greater than nine to go seems excessive to me. It's not like Foster is your only option. Johnson is the #1 or #1a WR in the league. Daniels is no slouch at TE.

Like I said, in the Dolphins game for example, we had a large lead and so we ran the ball in the fourth quarter. There's nothing wrong with that.

The majority of the situations for the Pats were different.
You needed to convert the majority of those situations.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

That thing is not accurate. I just started looking at game logs to post here, and then I realized I don't give a damn enough to bother going through 13 games worth of game logs to prove something that's evident to even a casual fan. Nonetheless, the second game log I looked at had the exact situation I talk about. The team was up, but the game was far from over, and it was 3rd and long inside the 10. Draw play to the right for 6 yards, then punt. Then gave up a TD to make it interesting. That wasn't listed at your link.

I'm not even going over that crap. It's not worth my time. But if you want to use your link for stats, you need to cross reference it with some game logs on NFL.com. Your link is incomplete.

Trust me, I store the game book of each game on my PC.

I also has Game Rewind which also has a play list that you can put right next to the video window.

I know each play exactly with just a click of the mouse.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by buddyboy

But if you truly don't think Kubiak will take us there, and you've said the goal is the Superbowl, why wouldn't you be calling for his firing? Otherwise, you're changing public opinion to...what?

Oh, I do want a different coach, just not tomorrow. I'm not a fan of mid-season firings unless it's a total meltdown.

[hollywood_texan]

I have not posted on here for some time. Therefore, I need to provide some background. In the past, I have been very critical of Kubiak.

Having said that, we are sitting at 11-2. The two losses this team have suffered this season are very similar. Both teams that beat the Texans this year have elite QBs and they jumped on the Texans defense early. Meanwhile, the Texans offense was ineffective early against a middle of the pack defense.

I am by no means a fan of Kubiak, and I will not say I am wrong about him until the Texans bring home the Lombardi Trophy.

Kubiak is a good coach, but has areas of improvement that I believe he can resolve. The key is the Texans organization recognizing that and making sure Kubiak improves his coaching where it is needed.

We have gone too far and improved too much to act rash at this point.

[Marcus]

To be fair to everyone, even to Kubiak's harshest critics, I don't see anywhere in this 'current' discussion, that anyone wants Kubiak fired at this point. I recognize that.

Yes, with Kubiak, it all starts at the top, and if this season crashes and burns in the end, he deserves as much criticism as everyone else. But if that happens, injuries will be the biggest reason. Nobody wants to talk about injuries, but they play a great deal in the outcome, and is the biggest reason why the defense is not as good as it was earlier. And the injuries will play a big part in the reevaluation after the season is over.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by buddyboy

I can understand believing that Kubiak will not ever bring us to a Superbowl. I can see the deficiencies, but I think every coach has deficiencies and that these flaws that people see in Kubiak aren't so severe that a superbowl is impossible. I'd say we have just as much of a chance with any other coach out there outside of Belichick class coaches.

But if you truly don't think Kubiak will take us there, and you've said the goal is the Superbowl, why wouldn't you be calling for his firing? Otherwise, you're changing public opinion to...what?

Speaking for myself, I'm hoping Kubiak is the blind squirel that lucks into finding a nut one of these days. I'd be happy with a single acorn right now.

I think it's his job to lose. And there is no chance in hell that he's even on hot seat when we are going to the playoffs.

Originally Posted by Marcus

To be fair to everyone, even to Kubiak's harshest critics, I don't see anywhere in this 'current' discussion, that anyone wants Kubiak fired at this point. I recognize that.

Yes, with Kubiak, it all starts at the top, and if this season crashes and burns in the end, he deserves as much criticism as everyone else. But if that happens, injuries will be the biggest reason. Nobody wants to talk about injuries, but they play a great deal in the outcome, and is the biggest reason why the defense is not as good as it was earlier. And the injuries will play a big part in the reevaluation after the season is over.

yep. I think Graham being gone last night really hurt. However, "next man up" only works when you actually have another player to step up.

But every team suffers from injuries. And that's right were better coaching and depth on the bench have a direct impact on games.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Speaking for myself, I'm hoping Kubiak is the blind squirel that lucks into finding a nut one of these days. I'd be happy with a single acorn right now.

I think it's his job to lose. And there is no chance in hell that he's even on hot seat when we are going to the playoffs.



yep. I think Graham being gone last night really hurt. However, "next man up" only works when you actually have another player to step up.

But every team suffers from injuries. And that's right were better coaching and depth on the bench have a direct impact on games.

Complaining is always fun

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Complaining is always fun

Fans need to vent as a way to avoid psychopathic behavior.

We get so emotionally invested in something that we have absolutely no control over the outcome.

It's mental and without a way to vent that negative energy, the violent crime rates would probably spike after losses like last night.



p.s. criticism =/= complaining

[Hervoyel]

Kubiak gets fired when he loses the team and so far I have no choice but to admit that he's never really lost the team. I wish McNair had gone in another direction but I can't deny that the Texans are relatively successful under Kubiak in that Marv Lewis/Norv Turner kind of way that nobody in their right mind really wants to see their team stuck in.

I tend to not hold 2006 against Kubiak. He was having to give David Carr one last shot just to make McNair happy and for all the bitching I've done about Gary being a .500 coach if you discount 2006 he is actually 52-41 which makes him Vince Lombardi compared to Dom Capers.

[buddyboy]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Oh, I do want a different coach, just not tomorrow. I'm not a fan of mid-season firings unless it's a total meltdown.

Right, I didn't mean mid-season firing, more just a general "we want a new coach" mentality.

Surprised that a coach can go 11-2 and still have his job in question for the next year.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Kubiak gets fired when he loses the team and so far I have no choice but to admit that he's never really lost the team. I wish McNair had gone in another direction but I can't deny that the Texans are relatively successful under Kubiak in that Marv Lewis/Norv Turner kind of way that nobody in their right mind really wants to see their team stuck in.

I tend to not hold 2006 against Kubiak. He was having to give David Carr one last shot just to make McNair happy and for all the bitching I've done about Gary being a .500 coach if you discount 2006 he is actually 52-41 which makes him Vince Lombardi compared to Dom Capers.

Even if we count the 2006 season, Kubiak is still 7 games over 500.

Capers is 32 games under the dirt.

Bum Phillips is only 5 over.