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Old 12-01-2012   #21
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
He uses those long arms to keep blockers out of his body and he's stronger than he looks. Doesn't stay engaged with linemen for long. Once he diagnoses a play he's shedding the lineman and going to the ball. He's a better player than Brooks reed. And I think he can easily surpass barwin.
I thought you pick OLmen with long arms to keep the DEs off of their body. A DE would want to get in close so he could use his arms to "bench" the OL off of him.

I never played either position, I'm just asking. Like I've seen Clay Mathews get up into a RT, then explode his arms out to knock the guy off balance, then shoot inside, outside, or whatever to get to t he QB
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Old 12-01-2012   #22
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Whoa..... what the... 6'6" 243??

Don't know if I ever seen anything like that at LB. Very small frame. If he's strong enough to set the edge, I could see him as a SAM, he could be the answer to your Grahams & Gronks.

I haven't seen him play, but with that length, he could be hell coming off the edge on the weakside......

interesting
He can add weight...

But I've watched quite a bit of him and I don't see the finesse thong with him. He may look finess because he's not engaging blockers for long and he gets off blocks.

But look and see if you see him getting pushed around or drove...I honestly haven't seem much of that.

In run support he usually gets his long arms extended, reads the play and then sheds the block. Qq
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Old 12-01-2012   #23
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Maybe.....

But Merciless is in that role as the wolb and primary rush Olb.


Are you going to drop this guy in coverage more? Or are you going to move merciless to the strong side and ask him to be the run stopper and play over the TE?

I think Jordan is a damn near perfect prospect for the texans solb.
No maybe about it. Since we already have Mercilus weakside he would be natural strong side, as you project Texans will not resign Connor Barwin.
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Old 12-01-2012   #24
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
He can add weight...

But I've watched quite a bit of him and I don't see the finesse thong with him. He may look finess because he's not engaging blockers for long and he gets off blocks.

But look and see if you see him getting pushed around or drove...I honestly haven't seem much of that.

In run support he usually gets his long arms extended, reads the play and then sheds the block. Qq
If he adds weight, he's a different player. Forget about where you have him projected. These guys are all hit-or-miss as is. Jordan is going to need to gain 20lbs at that height. Don't take this guy in the first round if you're going to add that kind of weight to him.

Aldon Smith is 2" shorter & 15 lbs heavier. The equivalent at 6'6" is over 265..

You gotta take him as is & if he plays like you say, I've got no problem with that. We're going to need freaks to play TEs if they continue to go the way of Gronk & Graham.

As far as not getting pushed around in college, you know it's a whole knew league. Every takle in the NFL will push him around at 243. His best bet would be to use his speed & work on his hand game.
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Old 12-01-2012   #25
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
If he adds weight, he's a different player. Forget about where you have him projected. These guys are all hit-or-miss as is. Jordan is going to need to gain 20lbs at that height. Don't take this guy in the first round if you're going to add that kind of weight to him.

Aldon Smith is 2" shorter & 15 lbs heavier. The equivalent at 6'6" is over 265..

You gotta take him as is & if he plays like you say, I've got no problem with that. We're going to need freaks to play TEs if they continue to go the way of Gronk & Graham.

As far as not getting pushed around in college, you know it's a whole knew league. Every takle in the NFL will push him around at 243. His best bet would be to use his speed & work on his hand game.
You have to find someone that can get the QB . No matter what they have to be a force . That's where ND Kalu said they'd miss Mario . The jury is still out on Mercilus and Reed .
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Old 12-01-2012   #26
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I thought you pick OLmen with long arms to keep the DEs off of their body. A DE would want to get in close so he could use his arms to "bench" the OL off of him.

I never played either position, I'm just asking. Like I've seen Clay Mathews get up into a RT, then explode his arms out to knock the guy off balance, then shoot inside, outside, or whatever to get to t he QB
Watch him play.

Clay matthews is a different type of player...He has more short area explosiveness...

Jordan uses his arm length to quickly disengage from blocker.

There's tons of film on Youtube....Not just highlights...Game film trimmed down...
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Old 12-01-2012   #27
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
If he adds weight, he's a different player. Forget about where you have him projected. These guys are all hit-or-miss as is. Jordan is going to need to gain 20lbs at that height. Don't take this guy in the first round if you're going to add that kind of weight to him.

Aldon Smith is 2" shorter & 15 lbs heavier. The equivalent at 6'6" is over 265..

You gotta take him as is & if he plays like you say, I've got no problem with that. We're going to need freaks to play TEs if they continue to go the way of Gronk & Graham.

As far as not getting pushed around in college, you know it's a whole knew league. Every takle in the NFL will push him around at 243. His best bet would be to use his speed & work on his hand game.
That's not entirely true.

Lots of players tend to add a little weight...Von Miller added weight this off season so he could play stronger at the LOS....Ray Lewis added weight over his career and then slimmed down latter as he got older...

Hasn't slowed them down any.

Some guys can do it...other guys can't....
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Old 12-01-2012   #28
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Watch him play.

Clay matthews is a different type of player...He has more short area explosiveness...

Jordan uses his arm length to quickly disengage from blocker.

There's tons of film on Youtube....Not just highlights...Game film trimmed down...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHQyegWdgrw
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Old 12-01-2012   #29
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
No maybe about it. Since we already have Mercilus weakside he would be natural strong side, as you project Texans will not resign Connor Barwin.
The reason Mario could play OLB was because he wasn't asked to cover much being on the weakside.

The SOLB drops into coverage a lot more than the WOLB.

If he's playing on the strong side he's going to have to cover more. I've watched some film on him now and I personally dont see him being able to do that.

I think he and Merci are both weakside guys if they are playing OLB.

I think Ansah would actually be a really good DE in this 34.
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Old 12-01-2012   #30
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
You have to find someone that can get the QB . No matter what they have to be a force . That's where ND Kalu said they'd miss Mario . The jury is still out on Mercilus and Reed .
I'm fine with that, if he can do it at 243 (or even if his true playing weight is 250) let's do it. Pull the trigger, line'em up. I'm just saying if you think he needs to add 20 lbs to be a force, let's use our 1st round pick somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Watch him play.

Clay matthews is a different type of player...He has more short area explosiveness...

Jordan uses his arm length to quickly disengage from blocker.

There's tons of film on Youtube....Not just highlights...Game film trimmed down...
That's wonderful. I like it, let's take him. For this particular post I was just asking a question, not related to Jordan at all. If he can use those long arms to keep the OL hands off him, that's great.

I'm not against the pick at all.

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That's not entirely true.

Lots of players tend to add a little weight...Von Miller added weight this off season so he could play stronger at the LOS....Ray Lewis added weight over his career and then slimmed down latter as he got older...

Hasn't slowed them down any.

Some guys can do it...other guys can't....
Again, I don't have a problem with players adding weight... muscle, not weight. But I don't remember anyone saying Ray Lewis had to add weight.

If he's playing his game & working out like he should & he adds weight, I don't have a problem with that. His skills will probably grow with his body. But if someone takes him & say, "We're going to have to bulk you up" IMO, that changes everything.

If you like him at 243 take him with you're first rounder. I don't have a problem with that. The Gronks & Grahams are a different beast at the TE position, we'll most likely need a different beast at the OLB position to match up. A 6'6" 243lb LB that can cover sounds like just the ticket.

If you think he needs to add weight to play in this league.... pass.
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Old 12-01-2012   #31
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I'm fine with that, if he can do it at 243 (or even if his true playing weight is 250) let's do it. Pull the trigger, line'em up. I'm just saying if you think he needs to add 20 lbs to be a force, let's use our 1st round pick somewhere else.



That's wonderful. I like it, let's take him. For this particular post I was just asking a question, not related to Jordan at all. If he can use those long arms to keep the OL hands off him, that's great.

I'm not against the pick at all.



Again, I don't have a problem with players adding weight... muscle, not weight. But I don't remember anyone saying Ray Lewis had to add weight.

If he's playing his game & working out like he should & he adds weight, I don't have a problem with that. His skills will probably grow with his body. But if someone takes him & say, "We're going to have to bulk you up" IMO, that changes everything.

If you like him at 243 take him with you're first rounder. I don't have a problem with that. The Gronks & Grahams are a different beast at the TE position, we'll most likely need a different beast at the OLB position to match up. A 6'6" 243lb LB that can cover sounds like just the ticket.

If you think he needs to add weight to play in this league.... pass.
I'm for Ziggy Ansah for the record . High risk high reward type guy because he hasn't played much . He's 6'5 270 and ran the 200 at BYU before playing football . He tried basketball before that but couldn't make it .

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...al.html?pg=all

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Myles-Mills hadn't seen someone with Ansah's size run like he could — clocking at 21.9 seconds in the 200 meters.
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Old 12-01-2012   #32
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
The reason Mario could play OLB was because he wasn't asked to cover much being on the weakside.

The SOLB drops into coverage a lot more than the WOLB.

If he's playing on the strong side he's going to have to cover more. I've watched some film on him now and I personally dont see him being able to do that.

I think he and Merci are both weakside guys if they are playing OLB.

I think Ansah would actually be a really good DE in this 34.
Not so fast my friend. Mario often times dropped into coverage. Dion actually drops into coverage a lot too. Ziggy is even more raw talent, coverage is not a skill set yet but in the future why not? Both are OLB prospects in Wade Phillips defense.
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Old 12-01-2012   #33
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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Not so fast my friend. Mario often times dropped into coverage. Dion actually drops into coverage a lot too. Ziggy is even more raw talent, coverage is not a skill set yet but in the future why not? Both are OLB prospects in Wade Phillips defense.
Ziggy plays heavy which is a must when you take on NFL tackles . Mercilus had great numbers last year and really hadn't had a chance this year . Barwin is better suited for the SOLB . If Ziggy can't play OLB he can be a 5 , heck he lines up at NG sometimes now . He's an elite talent that's not yet an elite player .... yet .
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Old 12-01-2012   #34
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

1.Give me Ansah over Jordan, more size/upside, same speed.
2. Lester, after watching Lester miss tackles and be out of position all afternoon I'm not sure I would pick Lester in the 4th rd. Quin will probably be re-signed. Give me an OT Long.
3.McCullers, Too tall to play NT. Huge guy though.
3. Porter, love this pick
4. Barner, like this pick, If Eddie Lacey is there I would pick him over Barner.
5. Hunt, Love this pick, I can just Imagine what Wade can do with a guy with that much untapped potential.
5. Adams, good pick has potential to replace McCain.
6. Fuller appears to have the same speed and better hands than Posey. New to football, unlimited potential.
7. Foketi, OL depth is never a bad thing. Dont know much about Foketi.

I would be very happy with this mock, except for the Lester pick.
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Old 12-01-2012   #35
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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1.Give me Ansah over Jordan, more size/upside, same speed.
2. Lester, after watching Lester miss tackles and be out of position all afternoon I'm not sure I would pick Lester in the 4th rd. Quin will probably be re-signed. Give me an OT Long.
3.McCullers, Too tall to play NT. Huge guy though.
3. Porter, love this pick
4. Barner, like this pick, If Eddie Lacey is there I would pick him over Barner.
5. Hunt, Love this pick, I can just Imagine what Wade can do with a guy with that much untapped potential.
5. Adams, good pick has potential to replace McCain.
6. Fuller appears to have the same speed and better hands than Posey. New to football, unlimited potential.
7. Foketi, OL depth is never a bad thing. Dont know much about Foketi.

I would be very happy with this mock, except for the Lester pick.
I think you hit the key . Wade doesn't mind if your big if you can move . Ziggy and Hunt are freaks being big and athletic .
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Old 12-02-2012   #36
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

1) I have a hard time with Jordan. I know you and badboy really like him, and if Barwin leaves, then OLB does become a need. Cant roll with and unproven Mercilus and a Reed that has not played as well as he did his rookie season. However, I just dont have a good read on Jordan. He is a phenomenal athlete, but I still worry about his ability to turn the corner when rushing the passer. With taller players one has to be concerned. Also, like others, I think he needs to add muscle. I dont think he will succeed in the pros at his current weight. I would not be upset about the pick, but I would not be overjoyed either. Definitely a wait-and-see.

2) I am not wild about Lester. I dont think he covers well enough to take Quin's spot, as he seems to be more of an in the box safety in the NFL. I like the idea of grabbing a bigger SS, but the guy must be able to cover well.

3) Love this pick. Dude is a bit of a project, but he moves like a man almost 100 pounds lighter. His height does not worry me, since he does a decent job playing low. With better conditioning a technique, that will only increase. Great pick.

3) Dont know a lot about the player, but I am not wild about drafting two OLBs in the first 3 rounds. Unless you are projecting him to be an ILB? If that is the case, I am good. We need to upgrade the position.

4) Barner- I like it. Threat to score any time he gets the ball. Makes the offense that much more dangerous.

5) Hunt is a freak, and was looking like a first round pick before this year. I am sold.

5) Again, I like the position. Adams can ball, though I do prefer Broomfield from Miss State. Just a matter of preference, as I would not complain at all if Adams is the pick.

6) This is a better spot for Fuller, not the 3rd/4th round people were projecting him. He has physical gifts, but needs to put them all together. Nice pick.

7) Good pick. I would like to see the position addressed earlier, but this kid has potential.

Nice draft, I would be happy if this was the end result come April.
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Old 12-02-2012   #37
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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1) Dion Jordan, OLB, OREGON---6'6" 243 lbs

I love him. I'd trade up to get him if needed. Really good athlete. Has shown good coverage out in the slot, good pass rusher from inside and outside. Good in run support. Very long and uses his hands well. Probably a little stronger than he looks. Increases the athleticism of this defense.
I would not trade up for Jordan. 5 sacks does not wow me nor does the time missed in critical game situations because of nagging injury's. Impressive specimen with lot of upside potential but where have we heard that before? If you must add another OLB/DE to replace Barwin (who you feel is gone end of season via free agency) then probably go Ezekiel Ansah, BYU route. I have watched a lot of Dion Jordan play, he flashes like Mario Williams then disappears for long stretches. Last year he did have 7 sacks while year before only 2. He does drop into coverage a lot but has little to show for it. His strongest suite is probably ability to make open field tackles. You have him graded about right, but some think he goes earlier which he might if one falls in love with his measureables. pass

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2) Robert Lester, SS, BAMA---6'2" 210 lbs

Decent coverage skill, good in run support. Increases the athleticism of this defense. a bit bigger than our current safeties so he may do better against some of the TE's we have trouble with. Player that looks really good to me with room to grow. Would be a great addition to this defense.
Why am I not impressed with bama's secondary? Kareem may have been the best corner they've produced? The safeties are always in the box type, strong in run support, used in blitz packages but overall not great in pass coverage. Good job with graded him, he probably winds up a late 2nd to mid 3rd. I like Demps ability enough to pass on him & think Manning still has at least two or three more quality years. pass

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3) Daniel McCullers, NT, Tennessee---6'6" 377lbs

Doesn't move like a 377 pound human being. Shows surprising burst off the ball. Will likely have to lose some weight to be effective in the NFL for more than 1 or 2 plays at a time. But the guy looks really good from what I've watched. A specimen for sure.
JUCO transfer, only one year experience @ Tennessee haven't heard anything that he comes out early or even asked for his draftable grade from advisory committee. Really raw prospect here if he did basing your pick mostly on potential, still has to show me which he should senior year. Has only one sack in his one year with Vols. pass

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3) Sean Porter, OLB/ILB, TAMU---6'2" 230 lbs

Played OLB for A&M in their 34 a year ago. Haven't seen him much this year. But I think he has the skillset to play WILB in Wades Defense and can line up outside sometimes to rush if needed. 6'2 230 pounds with room to add a little weight. Good speed, good agility, good in space and shows a burst when getting to the football.
Based on firs pick this makes no sense with other needs on this team. Texans already have Eddie Pleasent on the practice squad, very similar player that can't even get a call up to active roster, seems like wasted pick. Maybe Damontre Moore stole his thunder because his sack totals dropped to a mere 2.5. Think if you wanted him he will be available later, undersized to play in the league. pass
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4) KenJon Barner, RB/KR---5'11" 190 lbs

Good Runner. Good Kick returner. Bolsters the RB position for the future and gives another KR/PR option. Very fast, good vision. Catches well.
If you love watching Foster run then your going to love watching Barner, both fluid like water finding gap, combination of great vision & instincts. Barner is a flyweight in comparision but his speed can be blindingly fast, plays at a high level, runs between tackles like Chris Johnson when he came out of East Carolina. Playmaker, weapon out of the backfield. Keeper


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5) Margus Hunt, DE, SMU---6'8" 275 lbs

Will probably rise after the combine...But I'd still look to grab him and let him learn behind the guys we have.
Like his length, reminds me of Brandon Bair, 6-7 272 who went undrafted then bounced around the league trying to make a roster spot, even Texans brought him in this year to workout but did not sign him. Both lack athletic ability both are hard workers, 6 sacks reflects a good motor but low tackle numbers. Given the number of picks already on DL. pass

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2012 Draft was Mercilus

Last edited by beerlover; 12-02-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 12-02-2012   #38
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

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5) Johnny Adams, CB, Michigan STATE---5'11" 178 lbs

Just a good overall player IMO. Hard nosed. Good in man and zone coverage. Not overly flashy, but gets the job done. Has come up with a few picks as a college ball player, but the thing I like most is how he attacks QB's on blitzes and RB's on runs. The guy is a baller. I don't see McCain back here next year and this guy would bolster the CB position.
Replacing a 6th rd. nearly fully developed league ready CB with late 5th College DB that will have to repeat learning cycle, I just don't think that is good trade off. Like your player, great value here (if he slips this far) & Texans must add depth @ position regardless. Keeper

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6) Corey Fuller, WR, VA Tech---6'2" 196 lbs

Low 4.4 guy, good size. Transfer guy that walked onto the football team. Ran track before playing football but this is his second year and he has been productive. I really like this guy as a late round prospect.
Good depth player to throw into the mix for another position of need, just don't know if would even make this roster? Even if only practice squad material first year he would have time to develop & possibly make roster in 2 or 3. Since he is your only WR prospect then it's a no brainer. Keeper

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7) Manase Foketi, OT, West Texas A&M---6'5" 320 lbs

Started off at Kansas State. Went through an ugly divorce with the school and Eventually wound up in Texas. Played left tackle. Has good feet and good strength. Big time project but the ability is there. Needs help with technique.
This years Mondek? Honestly we see team needs completely opposite. Another solid but late offensive linemen who probably doesn't stand a chance in hell of helping this team next year with best case rotational depth player for future. Bring him into camp & see if he can become Texan back-up RT. Another good developmental prospect. Keeper

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2012 Draft was Mercilus

Last edited by beerlover; 12-02-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012   #39
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Default Re: New Mock 11/30/12

I do like Jordan but he has not ended the regular season as I hoped. If I were to go OLB in first, probably be Ansah. Mario Williams received disdain from fans for playing like Barwin has this season. In Wade's system, not the one we see cobbled together due to injuries, the OLB disrupts the QB. The only way I want Barwin back is with a small bonus, first two years no more than $2-3m each cap hit. Mercilus has 5 sacks and two fumbles in miminal playing time. He will gain confidence as he finishes out the season and playoffs & be an excellent starter '13. I am content with a Reed/Mercilus starting tandem and a later OLB pick. I will be posting some thoughts later today in a mock thread.
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Old 12-03-2012   #40
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Ive watched a bit of Oregon and they drop Jordan in coverage a lot. I'd be interested in seeing how often he actually rushes the qb.
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