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Old 11-26-2012   #1
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Default AFC Tie-breaker

So, listening to 610 this morning something was mentioned that confused me.

It was mentioned that if the Texans lose in a couple weeks to the Pats, the Texans lose the tie breakers they have already against BAL and DEN or something like that?? Basically they were saying those tie breakers we already own could be potentially blown with a loss to the Pats (perhaps something additionally has to happen to add to this to cause that?).

My question....is there any truth in that? All my years in watching football, I don't remember losing a head to head tie breaker to a team we beat by losing to another team???? Of course it's been years and years since any of that mattered for a Houston team so maybe I am forgetting something..
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Old 11-26-2012   #2
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
So, listening to 610 this morning something was mentioned that confused me.

It was mentioned that if the Texans lose in a couple weeks to the Pats, the Texans lose the tie breakers they have already against BAL and DEN or something like that?? Basically they were saying those tie breakers we already own could be potentially blown with a loss to the Pats (perhaps something additionally has to happen to add to this to cause that?).

My question....is there any truth in that? All my years in watching football, I don't remember losing a head to head tie breaker to a team we beat by losing to another team???? Of course it's been years and years since any of that mattered for a Houston team so maybe I am forgetting something..
I'm betting you misheard. You can't lose a head-2-head tiebreaker, but in a 3 way tie, assuming the teams have beaten each other, that tiebreaker goes out the window.
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Old 11-26-2012   #3
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Eh, talking heads trying to take up radio silence.

If they are talking about this kind of crap, they wasting airtime.
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Old 11-26-2012   #4
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
I'm betting you misheard. You can't lose a head-2-head tiebreaker, but in a 3 way tie, assuming the teams have beaten each other, the tiebreaker goes out the window.
At first I was thinking I misheard as well but I perked up and listened to the rest of the conversation and while I don't remember the details, they definitely laid out some convoluted explanation of how that could potentially lose us the tie breakers and #1 seed.
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Old 11-26-2012   #5
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by Hagar View Post
Eh, talking heads trying to take up radio silence.

If they are talking about this kind of crap, they wasting airtime.
This is what I am hoping but checking to see if I am missing something here...
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Old 11-26-2012   #6
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
This is what I am hoping but checking to see if I am missing something here...
Like Stemp already pointed out-the only way the Head to Head doesn't count it in the case of a three way tie. I'm betting that is what they were looking at-more than one team (including the Texans) finishing 13-3.
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Old 11-26-2012   #7
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

An example of what they were saying is this scenario:

Texans, Ravens, and Patriots all finish the season 13-3.

In the regular season:
Texans beat Ravens
Ravens beat Patriots
Patriots beat Texans


In this scenario, each team is 1-1 against the teams with the tied overall records, so the head to head tie breaker is thrown out, and next next tie breaker is used, which I believe is record against the AFC conference.
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Old 11-26-2012   #8
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
An example of what they were saying is this scenario:

Texans, Ravens, and Patriots all finish the season 13-3.

In the regular season:
Texans beat Ravens
Ravens beat Patriots
Patriots beat Texans


In this scenario, each team is 1-1 against the teams with the tied overall records, so the head to head tie breaker is thrown out, and next next tie breaker is used, which I believe is record against the AFC conference.
Yeah I must have misheard them because I know if we all finish say 13-3 then then it gets dicey but I didn't realize each team was 1-1 in this scenario either. I believe you are correct that the AFC record comes in to play after that which as of now our only loss was NFC which I am thankful for so obviously if the Pats beat us that tarnishes that.

Clearly I missed them probably mentioning the 1-1 issue if finishing at 13-3 which is what confused me and made me think they were saying something totally different.

Thx for the clarification.
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Old 11-26-2012   #9
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
An example of what they were saying is this scenario:

Texans, Ravens, and Patriots all finish the season 13-3.

In the regular season:
Texans beat Ravens
Ravens beat Patriots
Patriots beat Texans


In this scenario, each team is 1-1 against the teams with the tied overall records, so the head to head tie breaker is thrown out, and next next tie breaker is used, which I believe is record against the AFC conference.
If we lose to New England, we would go to 9-1 in the conference (if we beat Tennessee). New England & Baltimore could possibly be 9-1 at that time as well. So it's possible for all three teams to finish 11-1 in the conference.

FYI, Denver is also sitting there with 3 loses. They could possibly end the season 13-3 as well. They have Baltimore on their schedule, a win against Baltimore would assure Baltimore doesn't finish better than 13-3, then Baltimore would also have another loss in the conference meaning they won't finish better than 10-2, so we need to root for Denver to beat Baltimore, but lose somewhere else (so there is no 13-3 three-way tie).
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Old 11-26-2012   #10
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Here ya go.

Quote:
Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
1.Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
3.Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4.Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
5.Strength of victory.
6.Strength of schedule.
7.Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8.Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9.Best net points in conference games.
10.Best net points in all games.
11.Best net touchdowns in all games.
12.Coin toss
http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures
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Old 11-26-2012   #11
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
An example of what they were saying is this scenario:

Texans, Ravens, and Patriots all finish the season 13-3.

In the regular season:
Texans beat Ravens
Ravens beat Patriots
Patriots beat Texans


In this scenario, each team is 1-1 against the teams with the tied overall records, so the head to head tie breaker is thrown out, and next next tie breaker is used, which I believe is record against the AFC conference.
That's correct. Of course your scenario could get even more convoluted if Denver beats the Ravens and also finishes 13-3.

I think in any scenario where we lose to the Pats and end up 13-3 along with them and anyone else I think New England would end up with the top seed.

In a multiple team tie-breaker, though, once one team has been placed the tie-breaking rules go back to head-to-head.

Also in the case of multiple teams tied with the same record if one team swept the others or was swept they would be either eliminated or be the top seed.

I think the safest thing to do is beat New England and this is all moot. I'm hoping SF beats them after we play them either way. It would give us a cushion if we do lose.

I don't want it to come down to the final Sunday against the Colts.
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Old 11-26-2012   #12
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Here ya go.

Quote:
2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures
So Baltimore would be eliminated since they lost to both the Texans & the Patriots.
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Old 11-26-2012   #13
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by texanbacker93 View Post
i don't want it to come down to the final sunday against the colts.
^^^^^^^^^this
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Old 11-26-2012   #14
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
So Baltimore would be eliminated since they lost to both the Texans & the Patriots.
They beat the Patriots.
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Old 11-26-2012   #15
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
So Baltimore would be eliminated since they lost to both the Texans & the Patriots.
Ravens beat the Patriots.
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Old 11-26-2012   #16
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
If we lose to New England, we would go to 9-1 in the conference (if we beat Tennessee). New England & Baltimore could possibly be 9-1 at that time as well. So it's possible for all three teams to finish 11-1 in the conference.

FYI, Denver is also sitting there with 3 loses. They could possibly end the season 13-3 as well. They have Baltimore on their schedule, a win against Baltimore would assure Baltimore doesn't finish better than 13-3, then Baltimore would also have another loss in the conference meaning they won't finish better than 10-2, so we need to root for Denver to beat Baltimore, but lose somewhere else (so there is no 13-3 three-way tie).
Bleh , we just need to beat the Pats .... Problem solved!
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Old 11-26-2012   #17
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
They beat the Patriots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Ravens beat the Patriots.
Damn...... I was looking at the Broncos schedule. My bad.
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Old 11-26-2012   #18
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Bleh , we just need to beat the Pats .... Problem solved!
Then we still may be in a three way tie with Denver & Baltimore. Just going through all the scenarios.





But since we beat both teams, we'll win the tie breaker.
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Old 11-26-2012   #19
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

If the Texans finish 4-1 with the only loss being that MNF game at NE, they will still win the #1 seed regardless of what everyone else does. They'll be 14-2 and the best Baltimore can finish is 14-2, with Houston winning the tiebreaker.

The OP must have definitely misheard what they were saying.
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Old 11-26-2012   #20
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Default Re: AFC Tie-breaker

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Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
At first I was thinking I misheard as well but I perked up and listened to the rest of the conversation and while I don't remember the details, they definitely laid out some convoluted explanation of how that could potentially lose us the tie breakers and #1 seed.
Not the case with a loss only to NE. That can definitely happen assuming the Texans lose another game in addition to the Pats game and both Baltimore and New England win out. However, in order for the Patriots to win out they will have to beat us and San Francisco in consecutive weeks. Likewise, the Ravens would have to beat the Broncos, Giants, and Redskins.

I like our chances at the top seed overall.
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