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Old 11-21-2012   #101
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I haven't seen much of him on anything other than special teams.

I agree, can't get much worse than Barwin/Reed. Let those guys get some rest, kick them in the pride. Let Merci & Braman get some extra snaps over the next few weeks & see if that helps Barwin & Reed step their games up.
The problem with letting Braman and Merci get more snaps is that they seem to be undisciplined in run responsabilities. There's more to playing OLB in a 3-4 than just rushing the passer.

I'm all for working them into the game plan, but the defense is doing a fantastic job, overall. Just because the sack numbers aren't there for a couple of positions doesn't mean that they aren't being productive in other areas.

If I were the Lions, I'd be scared shatless. I'm sure they watched the Packer game and the Baltimore game. The Texans absolutely destroyed the Ravens after the Packers made the D look like chumps.
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Old 11-21-2012   #102
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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The problem with letting Braman and Merci get more snaps is that they seem to be undisciplined in run responsabilities. There's more to playing OLB in a 3-4 than just rushing the passer.

I'm all for working them into the game plan, but the defense is doing a fantastic job, overall. Just because the sack numbers aren't there for a couple of positions doesn't mean that they aren't being productive in other areas.

If I were the Lions, I'd be scared shatless. I'm sure they watched the Packer game and the Baltimore game. The Texans absolutely destroyed the Ravens after the Packers made the D look like chumps.
Great post. You are soooo right. Probably why I'm not a coach.
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Old 11-21-2012   #103
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

We're 9-1 and the defense is (statisticly) 4th best in the NFL.

Yes, I'm sure there is room to *****, there always is. But damn, when was the last time the Texans had the (tied) best record in the NFL going into week 12 and consistently rated number 1?

At this point I'm getting mentally ready to go on cruise control the rest of the season, and NOT spend the mental cycles worrying about my football team.
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Old 11-21-2012   #104
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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We're 9-1 and the defense is (statisticly) 4th best in the NFL.

Yes, I'm sure there is room to *****, there always is. But damn, when was the last time the Texans had the (tied) best record in the NFL going into week 12 and consistently rated number 1?

At this point I'm getting mentally ready to go on cruise control the rest of the season, and NOT spend the mental cycles worrying about my football team.
It's great, you should join me over here, I haven't been fretting this year just enjoying the ride.
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Old 11-21-2012   #105
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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It's great, you should join me over here, I haven't been fretting this year just enjoying the ride.
Hey now, I'm enjoying the ride. Just like to discuss football. "Yeah, the Texans are the Bees-knees" gets kind of old.

I don't think I'm going on cruise control until we beat the Patriots. I think that's our last real test, to beat them when there is something on the line, for them just as much as for us. That game may determine HFA for both teams.

Detroit & Tennessee stand between now & that game, hopefully we'll emerge from that game at 12-1, then I can go on cruise control... well, I'd hate to go into the play-offs on a 3 game losing streak.

dammit, screw cruise control.
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Old 11-21-2012   #106
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

These last couple weeks the pressure has been no existent. Is we let Henne chop us up like that I can't imagine Brady and his short pass game will do to us. This D line better wake or were not getting past the AFCC. Simple as that Mercilus needs to learn some dang moves and I like what Crick is doing Barwin is ok but it seems like the opposing O Line has no splits at all and we can't by em' and thats just not going to cut it. Remember 2010 with the amount of time other QB's had.. same thing this year if the pressure doesn't get there
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Old 11-21-2012   #107
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I was only addressing the size comment in your post which is why that was all I quoted.

I'm sure Wade can work with either style NT. I think if he has to pick between ability to penetrate v. ability to clog the middle he favors the former but like every coach he would love an over sized athletic NT who can do both.
^^^ This!

Wolf, if you use google (I did but forgot to bookmark it so I don't have the link) you should find an article somewhere that talked about Jamal Williams' ability to bat down pass.

Also, when I did the thread on Wade's defense over the years, I also mentioned that Ted Washington was also good at that and he can penetrate too.

That was why I also like Hebron Fangupo; he has a good first step and is quick enough to penetrate. Too bad, his injury gets the better of him.
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Old 11-21-2012   #108
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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Originally Posted by Hardcore Texan View Post
It's great, you should join me over here, I haven't been fretting this year just enjoying the ride.
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Old 11-21-2012   #109
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
^^^ This!

Wolf, if you use google (I did but forgot to bookmark it so I don't have the link) you should find an article somewhere that talked about Jamal Williams' ability to bat down pass.

Also, when I did the thread on Wade's defense over the years, I also mentioned that Ted Washington was also good at that and he can penetrate too.

That was why I also like Hebron Fangupo; he has a good first step and is quick enough to penetrate. Too bad, his injury gets the better of him.
My only issue is trying to blame the lack of consistent outside pressure on the scheme. Saying they are suppose to just set the edge and let the inside guys clean up is wrong in my opinion.
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Old 11-21-2012   #110
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

The Texans D and Watt should have a field day swatting passes away tomorrow. Stafford has begun commonly trying to thread passes sidearm in between the D linemen.
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Old 11-22-2012   #111
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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My only issue is trying to blame the lack of consistent outside pressure on the scheme. Saying they are suppose to just set the edge and let the inside guys clean up is wrong in my opinion.
I've been thinking about this long and hard, and it's really difficult to try to explain what I want to say.

Let's think of it this way, we're the DC and DL coach and the LB coach sitting together to come up with a way to generate pass rush.

We realize that's there are many ways to do things.
Somebody suggests that we have guys who can penetrate the interior gaps (Watt, Antonio, Mitchell) and we also have ILBs who have quick first step and short burst.
The shortest distance to the QB is a straight line; ie. to the inside.

If we can somehow set a guy free or going against a one-on-one match up, we have plenty of opportunity to cause have in the backfield.

On first and second down, when the run is still in play, this will also help disrupt the mesh point (if the QB hand the ball of to the RB).
By not having an OLB taking an edge rush all the time, we can also guard the outside run or reverse better.
In passing situation, it's also effective against the occasional draw play.

Another plus is that we can drop an OLB back into coverage instead of our ILB, giving the defense more variations in disguising the pass rush and coverage.

Sometimes, it can help against the screen pass if one of the OLB doesn't sell out to go all in. There's also benefit against the bootleg or roll-out.

Obviously, we can still rush both OLBs whenever we want to.
But with the personnel we had inside, it might be the more effective way to go about it.

I don't know how much sense that makes, just my thinking is all.


Go Texans.
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Old 11-22-2012   #112
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I've been thinking about this long and hard, and it's really difficult to try to explain what I want to say.

Let's think of it this way, we're the DC and DL coach and the LB coach sitting together to come up with a way to generate pass rush.

We realize that's there are many ways to do things.
Somebody suggests that we have guys who can penetrate the interior gaps (Watt, Antonio, Mitchell) and we also have ILBs who have quick first step and short burst.
The shortest distance to the QB is a straight line; ie. to the inside.

If we can somehow set a guy free or going against a one-on-one match up, we have plenty of opportunity to cause have in the backfield.

On first and second down, when the run is still in play, this will also help disrupt the mesh point (if the QB hand the ball of to the RB).
By not having an OLB taking an edge rush all the time, we can also guard the outside run or reverse better.
In passing situation, it's also effective against the occasional draw play.

Another plus is that we can drop an OLB back into coverage instead of our ILB, giving the defense more variations in disguising the pass rush and coverage.

Sometimes, it can help against the screen pass if one of the OLB doesn't sell out to go all in. There's also benefit against the bootleg or roll-out.

Obviously, we can still rush both OLBs whenever we want to.
But with the personnel we had inside, it might be the more effective way to go about it.

I don't know how much sense that makes, just my thinking is all.


Go Texans.
This is the "Cushing Effect" as Texans adjust to life with Brian rest of this season into the playoffs. As a collective, we tend to under estimate the value he brought to the table, coaching staff made adjustments & players role/assignment influenced to fill gaps.
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Old 11-22-2012   #113
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

Also, Wolf, I went back and looked at the numbers of all Wade's teams.

There were only the number of sacks that we can go by, but boy even I was somewhat surprise.

The Cowboys are the only true anomaly where the OLBs collect more sacks than the interior guys.

The Chargers are next.
In 04, their interior guys combined for 13.5 sacks, the ILBs had 3.5, and the OLBs had 12.
In 05, the splits were 14.5, 5.5, and 16.5

The rest of the teams that Wade was with, those figures leaned quite a bit toward the interior guys, sometimes with vast discrepancy.

Most notably was the 98 Bills.
The split was a humongous 33.5 to 6.5
Bruce Smith led the way with 10 that year (not even his highest number.)
LOLB Sam Rogers played in 15 games and recorded 4.5 sacks.
ROLB Gabe Northern played in 16 games and recorded 2 sacks.
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Old 11-22-2012   #114
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Problem is our olb's do rush. They just don't do a whole lot when they do.

It's obvious when they are not rushing or playing the run. But when you see them rushing the passer they aren't getting there very often.
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Old 11-22-2012   #115
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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This is the "Cushing Effect" as Texans adjust to life with Brian rest of this season into the playoffs. As a collective, we tend to under estimate the value he brought to the table, coaching staff made adjustments & players role/assignment influenced to fill gaps.
Now that you mention it, I wonder why we haven't seen as many threads & posts about how we don't need Brian Cushing similar to the threads & posts we had last year after losing another impact player on defense.

I mean we're playing better offensive teams than we did last year & we're still top 5.

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Problem is our olb's do rush. They just don't do a whole lot when they do.

It's obvious when they are not rushing or playing the run. But when you see them rushing the passer they aren't getting there very often.
Most of the time, not even close
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Old 11-22-2012   #116
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

Lions have one of the lesser quality OL's so expect Barwin in particular (Backus out?)to breakthrough & appease you pesky, relentless fans who insist cannot "get there" syndrome for Texans DL. Similar to Manning coming home to Chicago, Barwin is coming home to Detroit. Now if he does not perform up to my expectations under these circumstances guess I will have admit DL minus Watt just not getting it done. There is a lot riding on this game.

Three sacks Barwin & Brooks adds another
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Old 11-22-2012   #117
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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Problem is our olb's do rush. They just don't do a whole lot when they do.

It's obvious when they are not rushing or playing the run. But when you see them rushing the passer they aren't getting there very often.
It certainly looks that way; however, when I look at the numbers from the time Wade was with the Saints, the Broncos, the Falcons, and especially the Bills, the number of sacks generated from the interior positions far exceeded those of the OLBs. This strongly suggests that schemes were involved. We don't know how those various schemes were implemented so it's hard to pinpoint the reason.

JJ Watt certainly looks like a hybrid Reggie White/Bruce Smith/Clyde Simmons type of guy though.
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Old 11-22-2012   #118
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

The Texans sack distribution closely parallels that of the Bills of Wade's past with the OLBs contributed little in all those years; that I think we really need to keep in mind.
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Old 11-22-2012   #119
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

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It certainly looks that way; however, when I look at the numbers from the time Wade was with the Saints, the Broncos, the Falcons, and especially the Bills, the number of sacks generated from the interior positions far exceeded those of the OLBs. This strongly suggest that schemes were involved. We don't know how those various schemes were implemented so it's hard to pinpoint the reason.

JJ Watt certainly looks like a hybrid Reggie White/Bruce Smith/Clyde Simmons type of guy though.
Well that just brings up other questions. We know Jj is doing his part, where are the other guys? Antonio with 4..... that's about right for an interior. But who is Terrell McClain & where is Jared Crick?
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Old 11-22-2012   #120
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Default Re: Besides Watt, D-line simply just not getting done this year

Here's the sack distribution list of the Bills during Wade's tenure.
(Note that the interior included big Ted Washington who "shouldn't" figure much.)

95:
25.5 - 19.5

96:
26.5 - 10

97:
24 - 12.5

98:
33.5 - 6.5

99:
28.5 - 6.5

2000:
21.5 - 13.5

It was not just a one-year anomaly.
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