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Old 11-21-2012   #21
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That's debatable.

"Reaches" aren't that big of a deal IMO outside of the top ten. Look at Seattle last year taking Irvin. Some people thought we reached on JJ Watt. Now people are saying he should have been taken higher.

I don't think you should base picks so much on who you think will be reaches, but base it on who you think is talented and can help the team. BPA is overrated by people outside of the top 10. And even in the top ten it's debatable sometimes. At pick #32 is shouldn't even enter the discussion IMO.
Brooks and Jones are Rookies. I just don't believe they are going to make those type of investment in players and then basically relegate them to back up duty after their rookie year. Even Caldwell got his chance to start

And Brooks has a ton of potential. I believe they see him as a future starter next to Duane Brown.
To be fair, I was on the Watt bandwagon. Irvin... yea, it appears I missed there. Aldon Smith too, I thought he would be no more than a 8-10 sack 3rd down specialist.

So we agree on Brooks. No problem there. But Jones was a 4th rounder. Sure mid and late round picks turn out, but that late in the draft you are not thinking "starter". You are thinking depth player, potential injury starter. I think the future OL (based on the mock) looks like Brown/Cooper/Myers/Brooks/Winters. I feel a lot better with that compared to Brown/Jones/Myers/Brooks/Newton.
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Old 11-21-2012   #22
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

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To be fair, I was on the Watt bandwagon. Irvin... yea, it appears I missed there. Aldon Smith too, I thought he would be no more than a 8-10 sack 3rd down specialist.

So we agree on Brooks. No problem there. But Jones was a 4th rounder. Sure mid and late round picks turn out, but that late in the draft you are not thinking "starter". You are thinking depth player, potential injury starter. I think the future OL (based on the mock) looks like Brown/Cooper/Myers/Brooks/Winters. I feel a lot better with that compared to Brown/Jones/Myers/Brooks/Newton.
ties up p a boatload of cap space OL side of the cap equation, that is what I'm saying which seems a bit out of Texans character. I mean look what Texans have done will less expensive & lower draft picks, with exception of Duane Brown who is this franchise LT.

Really doubt Barwin is going to cost even what the Texans offered him last off season. However Texans will offer him the opportunity to be set for life which should sway his decision this time around.

I feel everybody on this board has been too hard on our OLB production. Funny time & place to voice this personal complaint but sure 65 won't mind. I have a theory, call it the "Cushing Effect" everybody has had to be more responsible & accountable for assignments each area of the field as compensation because Cushing is not there wrecking havoc or having their backs. So instead of pinning their ears back, hell bent after the QB they have to step back a little read the play & react to what the offense is doing more. Those split seconds count for something, they're called sacks. I also see a much higher ceiling than most for Mercilus, they have really been careful bringing him along, hopefully they remove his training harness & let him do his thing which is get after the QB then all this nonsense of drafting back to back OLB first/second day will be put to bed
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Old 11-21-2012   #23
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

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ties up p a boatload of cap space OL side of the cap equation, that is what I'm saying which seems a bit out of Texans character. I mean look what Texans have done will less expensive & lower draft picks, with exception of Duane Brown who is this franchise LT.

Really doubt Barwin is going to cost even what the Texans offered him last off season. However Texans will offer him the opportunity to be set for life which should sway his decision this time around.

I feel everybody on this board has been too hard on our OLB production. Funny time & place to voice this personal complaint but sure 65 won't mind. I have a theory, call it the "Cushing Effect" everybody has had to be more responsible & accountable for assignments each area of the field as compensation because Cushing is not there wrecking havoc or having their backs. So instead of pinning their ears back, hell bent after the QB they have to step back a little read the play & react to what the offense is doing more. Those split seconds count for something, they're called sacks. I also see a much higher ceiling than most for Mercilus, they have really been careful bringing him along, hopefully they remove his training harness & let him do his thing which is get after the QB then all this nonsense of drafting back to back OLB first/second day will be put to bed
If Barwin does leave, what will be different next draft than last draft when they used a first on Mercy? Instead of Barwin and Reed. It would be Mercilus and Reed with Mercy having only one year & Barwin more. With a less seasoned OLB corps would it not make even more sense to draft an OLB again?
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Old 11-22-2012   #24
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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I cant make up my mind on the RT / RG arguement. I think in the coming draft it needs to be one or the other early and a developmental player at the opposite position later.


Wouldnt mind a NT but the top tier will be long gone by the time the Texans pick in the first round and there are several guy's in that second group that are relatively close in terms of talent. I think you get more value at the position later in the draft , maybe make a move up to the middle of the 3rd round.
I agree with your bolded section, RT or RG confuse me as well. I keep flopping back and forth on the replacement of Newton at RT, but BB pointed out to me in a PM that Newton has only given up 3 sacks and 6 penalties this season and that's pretty damn good for a guy in only his 2nd season and first year really playing. Jones and Newton both show potential for the future along with Brooks but the hard part for us all is being patient while waiting for their development. We expect replacements to step in and be better than Brisiel and Winston but it doesn't work that way, they need time to learn. I know it's hard to be patient.
As for OLB I don't think it's a 1st round need even if we lose Barwin in FA, which I really hope doesn't happen. I think Reed and Barwin are doing a good job, sacks aren't the only measure of an OLB. Both of them set the edge against the run and direct the run to the middle of the D-line very well, all the more reason to get better at NT. We drafted Merci as insurance against losing Barwin because Barwin was in the last year of his contract. If we lose Barwin, OLB is not a 1st round need because neither Reed or Merci are going to be a FA at the end of next season, thus no need for insurance against them leaving.
I think our 1st round pick will most likely be at NT or CB if a really good CB falls to us, doubtful. I think Cody will be gone at the end of the season which leaves a huge hole in the D-line which Mitchell is not prepared to fill by himself. I think the early rounds of the draft go something like this: JMO...
1. NT or CB.
2. WR
3. OT/OG, a guy like Wagner that can most likely play both.
3b. ILB
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Old 11-22-2012   #25
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I agree with your bolded section, RT or RG confuse me as well. I keep flopping back and forth on the replacement of Newton at RT, but BB pointed out to me in a PM that Newton has only given up 3 sacks and 6 penalties this season and that's pretty damn good for a guy in only his 2nd season and first year really playing.
I pretty much agree with BL's assessment of Newton playing rather well for a guy in only his second season as a late round pick.

He blocks well in space and does a really good job when he gets in space. My only issue is that he doesnt get a whole lot of push in the trenches ... and thats big considering how much of the Texans offense goes thru the run game and play action.





Quote:
As for OLB I don't think it's a 1st round need even if we lose Barwin in FA, which I really hope doesn't happen. I think Reed and Barwin are doing a good job, sacks aren't the only measure of an OLB. Both of them set the edge against the run and direct the run to the middle of the D-line very well, all the more reason to get better at NT. We drafted Merci as insurance against losing Barwin because Barwin was in the last year of his contract. If we lose Barwin, OLB is not a 1st round need because neither Reed or Merci are going to be a FA at the end of next season, thus no need for insurance against them leaving.
This is a good point and I pretty much agree with it but if a guy falls to them that they have rated highly , I could see them taking an OLB.


Quote:
I think our 1st round pick will most likely be at NT or CB if a really good CB falls to us, doubtful. I think Cody will be gone at the end of the season which leaves a huge hole in the D-line which Mitchell is not prepared to fill by himself. I think the early rounds of the draft go something like this: JMO...
I can see a scenario where they take a combination of NT/CB in the forst two rounds, isnt McCain a FA too ?

Quote:
1. NT or CB.
2. WR
3. OT/OG, a guy like Wagner that can most likely play both.
3b. ILB
Not feeling the WR pick , hard to imagine a guy they get that far down is going to take a roster spot from one of the current group of recievers.
If they do take a reciever that high , one of Walter or Jean is gone.
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Old 11-22-2012   #26
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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I can see a scenario where they take a combination of NT/CB in the forst two rounds, isnt McCain a FA too ?



Not feeling the WR pick , hard to imagine a guy they get that far down is going to take a roster spot from one of the current group of recievers.
If they do take a reciever that high , one of Walter or Jean is gone.

McCain will be a FA as well and I think he's gone, even average CB's are expensive. I could see NT/CB in the first 2 rounds as well and wouldn't be upset by it. I think it all depends on how many 2nd round picks we end up with. Like BB has mentioned, I'd like to see Rick trading up for extra 2nd round picks, using Tate and our own picks since we should have alot of comp. picks.

We disagree on WR. I can see a 2nd round WR taking a roster spot from either Jean, Posey, or possibly Walter. Jean has had 2 yrs. and proven nothing yet, Posey has done nothing and could be fighting for a roster spot next training camp, and depending on a training camp assessment of the WR corp Walter could possibly be fighting for a spot as well.
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Old 11-22-2012   #27
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I agree with you on Ansah being better than Mercilus in long run and we have only to look at most recent draft of Mercilus to add to rotation. If Barwin leaves (and I'm glad to see you considering that)we know Texans could use #1 on OLB let alone a second rounder.
Don't know about being better than Mercilus in the long run. (What makes you say that?) but if you want Ansah you are going to have to spend a 1st. He will shoot up the draft boards at the combine. He has a rare combination of size, speed and agility. He weights 270 and has run an 11 sec 100 meter. Still don't see him as just an edge rusher.

He plays all over the line at oregon. He is more a mix of JJ Watt and Mercilous. His style reminds me alot of Watt's. He gets off the line really fast and gets his long arms extended into the OL with a good jolt and when he sheds he doesn't loose ground, he does it with explosion and exceleration. When he shoots gaps he knows how to get skinny and get through the gap. He is very good in the open field because of his speed. What makes all this even more impressive is the fact that he has only been playing football for a couple of years.

He would be a very valuable player to have for this particular defense because of his versatility.
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Old 11-22-2012   #28
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

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Don't know about being better than Mercilus in the long run. (What makes you say that?) but if you want Ansah you are going to have to spend a 1st. He will shoot up the draft boards at the combine. He has a rare combination of size, speed and agility. He weights 270 and has run an 11 sec 100 meter. Still don't see him as just an edge rusher.

He plays all over the line at oregon. He is more a mix of JJ Watt and Mercilous. His style reminds me alot of Watt's. He gets off the line really fast and gets his long arms extended into the OL with a good jolt and when he sheds he doesn't loose ground, he does it with explosion and exceleration. When he shoots gaps he knows how to get skinny and get through the gap. He is very good in the open field because of his speed. What makes all this even more impressive is the fact that he has only been playing football for a couple of years.

He would be a very valuable player to have for this particular defense because of his versatility.
Ansah plays at BYU. Jordan plays at Oregon.

Anyway, I dont know if Ansah goes in the first. Everything you said (whether you are talking Ansah or Jordan) is correct on Ansah- he is a physical freak, and plays all over the field. However, he wont make much of an impact his first year. He is a project, just look at his technique- it has a long way to go. Plus, there are some other DE/OLBs that, while they have a lower ceiling, have a higher floor.

That said, it only takes one team to fall in love with his measurables.
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Old 11-22-2012   #29
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

Ansah has JPP ability, if he falls I would take him. However if a WR like Patterson fell to #32 taking him would be a no brainer.

Like your mock, OL would be set for yrs. I'm for drafting a RT before an OT/OG like Cooper, if Cooper was BPA I would take him. He's going to be a 10 yr starter. I've got a feeling that 1 of these 3 will be available late in the 1st.

Tell me your thoughts on Eric Fisher, he maybe availabe at 64. he an intriging RT prospect. A big guy who moves well and is light on his feet. He does need to improve his strength, but he has the frame to add strength and LBS. Perfect fit for the ZBS.
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Old 11-22-2012   #30
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Week Mock

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Ansah plays at BYU. Jordan plays at Oregon.

Anyway, I dont know if Ansah goes in the first. Everything you said (whether you are talking Ansah or Jordan) is correct on Ansah- he is a physical freak, and plays all over the field. However, he wont make much of an impact his first year. He is a project, just look at his technique- it has a long way to go. Plus, there are some other DE/OLBs that, while they have a lower ceiling, have a higher floor.

That said, it only takes one team to fall in love with his measurables.
I meant BYU. Mercilus fell to us because teams feared the one year wonder tag. That will work against Ansah also. I just hope it keeps him on the board till we pick at 32. He is perfect for this defense. I look at his technique and I am amazed that he has only been playing for two years. He is very aware of not loosing contain when it's his responsibility. When he is told to pin his ears back and get after the QB he is nearly unstoppable.
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Old 11-22-2012   #31
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I meant BYU. Mercilus fell to us because teams feared the one year wonder tag. That will work against Ansah also. I just hope it keeps him on the board till we pick at 32. He is perfect for this defense. I look at his technique and I am amazed that he has only been playing for two years. He is very aware of not loosing contain when it's his responsibility. When he is told to pin his ears back and get after the QB he is nearly unstoppable.
Mercilus fell to us because other teams thought they were drafting better players.

Teams have drafted plenty of guys that have had one big year.

Doesnt matter if you think the guy is good. Trust your scouts.

The fact that he had one big year was not the determining factor.
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Old 11-23-2012   #32
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

In post #24 I said that I see our early rounds of the draft going like this:

1. NT or CB.
2. WR
3. OT/OG, a guy like Wagner that can most likely play both.
3b. ILB

I'd like to modify that assessment to include possibly DE in the 1st round. I think it's a possibility the Texans could do much the same thing that was done in the 2012 draft, selecting a 1st round pick as insurance against losing a FA at the end of the next season. Mercilus in 2012 was insurance against losing Barwin to FA in 2013. I could see the Texans doing this in 2013 for Antonio Smith's spot at DE by selecting Sheldon Richardson-DE from Missouri. Richardson is 6'04" and 295 lbs. very quick off the snap, high motor, and doesn't give up on a play. Does that sound like anyone else we know? I see him more as a DE in our system, replacing Smith, but it's possible the Texans could play him at NT as well considering we run a 1 gap system that thrives on putting pressure on the QB, doubtful though.

Have you guys seen Sheldon Richardson-DT, I'm impressed by him.
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Old 11-23-2012   #33
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
In post #24 I said that I see our early rounds of the draft going like this:

1. NT or CB.
2. WR
3. OT/OG, a guy like Wagner that can most likely play both.
3b. ILB

I'd like to modify that assessment to include possibly DE in the 1st round. I think it's a possibility the Texans could do much the same thing that was done in the 2012 draft, selecting a 1st round pick as insurance against losing a FA at the end of the next season. Mercilus in 2012 was insurance against losing Barwin to FA in 2013. I could see the Texans doing this in 2013 for Antonio Smith's spot at DE by selecting Sheldon Richardson-DE from Missouri. Richardson is 6'04" and 295 lbs. very quick off the snap, high motor, and doesn't give up on a play. Does that sound like anyone else we know? I see him more as a DE in our system, replacing Smith, but it's possible the Texans could play him at NT as well considering we run a 1 gap system that thrives on putting pressure on the QB, doubtful though.

Have you guys seen Sheldon Richardson-DT, I'm impressed by him.
If Sheldon Richardson is available 32nd he would be BPA, IMO.
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Old 11-23-2012   #34
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

The O-Line is struggling more than it was last year because the line got younger and a bit more inexperienced.

Newton/Caldwell/Jones

Give them time and I think Brandon Brooks can really come on if he can keep his weight down, also.

I'd like to see more play makers on that defensive front 7. Without JJ Watt I don't think we'd record a sack.

ILB - Ogletree out of Georgia. Athletic and also has a knack for making plays in coverage. (Loves swatting the ball)

DL - Sheldon Richardson DE/DT Mizzou (Could play NT even), Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green. (Late Round Gem)

OLB - Cornelius Carradine FSU, Bjoern Werner FSU. (even if we won't get a shot at him)
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Old 11-23-2012   #35
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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If Sheldon Richardson is available 32nd he would be BPA, IMO.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 11-23-2012   #36
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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In post #24 I said that I see our early rounds of the draft going like this:

1. NT or CB.
2. WR
3. OT/OG, a guy like Wagner that can most likely play both.
3b. ILB

I'd like to modify that assessment to include possibly DE in the 1st round. I think it's a possibility the Texans could do much the same thing that was done in the 2012 draft, selecting a 1st round pick as insurance against losing a FA at the end of the next season. Mercilus in 2012 was insurance against losing Barwin to FA in 2013. I could see the Texans doing this in 2013 for Antonio Smith's spot at DE by selecting Sheldon Richardson-DE from Missouri. Richardson is 6'04" and 295 lbs. very quick off the snap, high motor, and doesn't give up on a play. Does that sound like anyone else we know? I see him more as a DE in our system, replacing Smith, but it's possible the Texans could play him at NT as well considering we run a 1 gap system that thrives on putting pressure on the QB, doubtful though.

Have you guys seen Sheldon Richardson-DT, I'm impressed by him.
Texans GM Rick Smith responded with fourth-round DE Jared Crick when asked to name one member of Houston's draft class to "watch out for" in 2012.
Crick will begin his career behind Antonio Smith and J.J. Watt, but he's Smith's heir apparent. "I think (Crick) will come in and get into a rotation," said Smith. "... He's a hard-nosed football player. He plays hard." Crick will have to beat out Tim Jamison to be the Texans' No. 3 defensive end as a rookie. May 2 - 3:34 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7508/jared-crick
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Old 11-23-2012   #37
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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Texans GM Rick Smith responded with fourth-round DE Jared Crick when asked to name one member of Houston's draft class to "watch out for" in 2012.
Crick will begin his career behind Antonio Smith and J.J. Watt, but he's Smith's heir apparent. "I think (Crick) will come in and get into a rotation," said Smith. "... He's a hard-nosed football player. He plays hard." Crick will have to beat out Tim Jamison to be the Texans' No. 3 defensive end as a rookie. May 2 - 3:34 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7508/jared-crick
to me it seems like crick had one of his better games against the lions. seemed like i saw and heard him more then before. I think going forward for the next year or two with jamison and crick behind smith and watt is pretty good. i wouldnt look to upgrade DE, get a NT and move earl over to create more competition at DE ,that is if we keep cody in FA.
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Old 11-23-2012   #38
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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The O-Line is struggling more than it was last year because the line got younger and a bit more inexperienced.

Newton/Caldwell/Jones

Give them time and I think Brandon Brooks can really come on if he can keep his weight down, also.

I'd like to see more play makers on that defensive front 7. Without JJ Watt I don't think we'd record a sack.

ILB - Ogletree out of Georgia. Athletic and also has a knack for making plays in coverage. (Loves swatting the ball)

DL - Sheldon Richardson DE/DT Mizzou (Could play NT even), Chris Jones DE/DT Bowling Green. (Late Round Gem)

OLB - Cornelius Carradine FSU, Bjoern Werner FSU. (even if we won't get a shot at him)
i agree but i still would like a pick at OT and OG because we might have a lot leaving in FA, players like harris, caldwell, butler, gardner could all be gone next year.
We will need another OT to give competition to newton and fill the role of Swing T.
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Old 11-24-2012   #39
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

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to me it seems like crick had one of his better games against the lions. seemed like i saw and heard him more then before. I think going forward for the next year or two with jamison and crick behind smith and watt is pretty good. i wouldnt look to upgrade DE, get a NT and move earl over to create more competition at DE ,that is if we keep cody in FA.
This.
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Old 11-24-2012   #40
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Default Re: rmartin65's Thanksgiving Day Mock

Good mock.

Problem I am coming up with, as is everyone, BPA vs reaching for a need spot.

While I think drafting OG in the first could push this OL over the top, I just have a hard time talking myself into in considering Jones seeing serious PT this year and Brooks ceiling going into next year. I will say this though, I have a hard time seeing Caldwell returning. Dude has had some mixed success and I suspect he might want a change of scenery and maybe move back to C where he was an All-American at Alabama.

Jones isn't likely to developing into an elite G, but neither was Brisiel. The team needs him to do what he's been doing show up and just get the job done.

With all the youth infused the the line the past two years I just have a hard time seeing them going OL in the first two rounds. However, the depth at ILB and with James only on a one year contract, it's a big concern for me.
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