Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > The National Football League
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


The National Football League League News & Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2012   #1
Hookem Horns
The Bill Payer
 
Hookem Horns's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,265
Rep Power: 78148 Hookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Quote:
Reportedly, the hit that hurt Roethlisberger's shoulder also damaged one of the ribs close to his heart and his aorta. If further injured, it could be extremely dangerous. This means that Big Ben will have to wait until this injury is fully healed before stepping back onto a football field.

With an injury this dangerous, one has to expect that Roethlisberger and the Steelers will give it the recovery time and the gravity that it deserves.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...entially-fatal

Probably gone for the season. I don't think this guy will be able to do anything for a while.
Hookem Horns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #2
ItsMyFault
It's on me.
 
ItsMyFault's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Chicago/Houston
Posts: 118
Rep Power: 487 ItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respectedItsMyFault is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Damn. This sucks for Steelers fans. Huge blow.
__________________
ItsMyFault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #3
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 17,276
Rep Power: 199795 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Wow. It didn't look like it would be that serious. I thought he might have a slightly dislocated/sprained shoulder and maybe some collar bone damage.

Sux for the Steelers. Byron Leftwich, with his big-assed windup delivery, is not going to make the same plays Big Ben makes.

Like... at all.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #4
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,935
Rep Power: 62987 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

The Colts path to the Wildcard most likely just got easier. Maybe a lot easier.
__________________
Everyone's an idiot, not just the people with low SAT scores. We're just idiots about different things at different times. No matter how smart you are, you spend much of your day being an idiot.
ChampionTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #5
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,500
Rep Power: 68813 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

OMG, he's not gonna play with a witttle injuwy. What a wussie.

__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #6
Showtime100
Got AJ?
 
Showtime100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin,Tx
Age: 51
Posts: 20,324
Rep Power: 110127 Showtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respectedShowtime100 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Get well Ben Roethlisberger, scary injury you need to respect and heal properly. No sports fan worth his ticket wants to see anyone hurt on the field, especially a dangerous injury.

To Steeler fans:
__________________
Showtime100 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #7
welsh texan
Lest we forget
 
welsh texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Llandudno, Wales
Age: 26
Posts: 1,621
Rep Power: 22601 welsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respectedwelsh texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Damn, whatever you think about the guy he's a good player on a team thats good to watch, wish him a speedy recovery in time for next season.

On a selfish note, thats one team who would have potentially been dangerous in the playoffs knocked off if he's out for the season.
__________________
They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the gowing down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.
welsh texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 11-14-2012   #8
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 21,345
Rep Power: 209005 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Remember how we felt last year when Schaub was out for the season? Karma is a *****, don't tempt her.
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #9
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,935
Rep Power: 62987 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal


Looks like I picked the wrong three weeks to play Baltimore two times!
__________________
Everyone's an idiot, not just the people with low SAT scores. We're just idiots about different things at different times. No matter how smart you are, you spend much of your day being an idiot.
ChampionTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #10
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 46
Posts: 48,091
Rep Power: 99691 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

While I think Rapelisberger is a POS, I certainly pray for the best for his health! Nobody should be in that much danger from a football injury..

"I'm one of the good guys but still things happen to POS's football players or otherwise, that are life threatening as well..


"I (we should) Pray for them too!"



Signed, DJ Hayden
UH Coog


*EDIT*
*My version*
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #11
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15,367
Rep Power: 165989 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Big Ben has apparently experienced a 1st rib dislocation or fracture. First rib dislocations\fractures are rarest of all rib fractures, and are a reflection of severe chest trauma since the first rib is very well protected by the shoulder, lower neck musculature, and collar bone. It requires a much higher impact force to fracture than other ribs. Fractures of the first rib raise immediate suspicion of significant chest trauma. Mortality rates as high as 36% have been reported with fractures or dislocations of the first rib, which are associated with injury vital structures located behind this rib. Such structures include the ascending aorta (one of the most commonly associated with mortality), lung, subclavian artery, and brachial plexus. Other complications associated with first rib fractures include delayed subclavian blood vessel clots and the creation of traumatic aortic aneurysm........all of these complications are of a serious nature. Because of the anatomic relationship of the first rib to the heart (heart located below the level of the first rib), it would be very unlikely that the heart would directly be injured with this type of trauma. However, the ascending aorta which comes off directly from the heart can be torn off its connection to the heart essentially leading to certain death.

For those fortunate enough to reach the hospital alive, I've had to crack my share of chests to save these patients. The first rib is dislocated or fractured most classically in a head-on auto accident with a massiive impact from a high speed steering wheel into the chest. The first rib is located in a recessed position immediately below the collar bone. The heart is not directly behind this rib........the aortic arch is.:









Big Ben is indeed very fortunate to have fared this benignly from such an injury. His physicians better be darn sure that his rib is totally stabilized by the natural long term healing process or with the help of surgical fixation before he is ever allowed back onto the field.
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #12
Fred
All Pro
 
Fred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 841
Rep Power: 28283 Fred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respectedFred is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

I understand that the first danger is ripping an aorta and being DOA. Since he is past that, is the major danger now 1) loss of protection (of aortas, heart etc) due to weakness of rib or 2) danger that the broken rib could get pushed into vital areas (half rib sticking into heart)?
__________________
Warning! If this post does not appear to contain sarcasm, someone has probably hacked my account!
Fred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012   #13
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,935
Rep Power: 62987 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Big Ben has apparently experienced a 1st rib dislocation or fracture. First rib dislocations\fractures are rarest of all rib fractures, and are a reflection of severe chest trauma since the first rib is very well protected by the shoulder, lower neck musculature, and collar bone. It requires a much higher impact force to fracture than other ribs. Fractures of the first rib raise immediate suspicion of significant chest trauma. Mortality rates as high as 36% have been reported with fractures or dislocations of the first rib, which are associated with injury vital structures located behind this rib. Such structures include the ascending aorta (one of the most commonly associated with mortality), lung, subclavian artery, and brachial plexus. Other complications associated with first rib fractures include delayed subclavian blood vessel clots and the creation of traumatic aortic aneurysm........all of these complications are of a serious nature. Because of the anatomic relationship of the first rib to the heart (heart located below the level of the first rib), it would be very unlikely that the heart would directly be injured with this type of trauma. However, the ascending aorta which comes off directly from the heart can be torn off its connection to the heart essentially leading to certain death.

For those fortunate enough to reach the hospital alive, I've had to crack my share of chests to save these patients. The first rib is dislocated or fractured most classically in a head-on auto accident with a massiive impact from a high speed steering wheel into the chest. The first rib is located in a recessed position immediately below the collar bone. The heart is not directly behind this rib........the aortic arch is.:









Big Ben is indeed very fortunate to have fared this benignly from such an injury. His physicians better be darn sure that his rib is totally stabilized by the natural long term healing process or with the help of surgical fixation before he is ever allowed back onto the field.
It's almost eery that between this and the U/H player injured in practice, I've now heard the phrase "This is an injury you see in an auto accident, not on a football field" twice in the last week.
__________________
Everyone's an idiot, not just the people with low SAT scores. We're just idiots about different things at different times. No matter how smart you are, you spend much of your day being an idiot.
ChampionTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012   #14
Hookem Horns
The Bill Payer
 
Hookem Horns's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,265
Rep Power: 78148 Hookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respectedHookem Horns is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Big Ben is indeed very fortunate to have fared this benignly from such an injury. His physicians better be darn sure that his rib is totally stabilized by the natural long term healing process or with the help of surgical fixation before he is ever allowed back onto the field.
So in your estimation he won't be back on the field this season?
Hookem Horns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012   #15
Playoffs 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Playoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,838
Rep Power: 235494 Playoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Roethlisberger has rare, potentially dangerous rib injury

Roethlisberger has rare, potentially dangerous rib injury

Quote:
Ben Roethlisberger has a rare rib injury that won't allow him to play until it heals because it could press on his aorta and kill him.


Yikes!
Playoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012   #16
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15,367
Rep Power: 165989 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
I understand that the first danger is ripping an aorta and being DOA. Since he is past that, is the major danger now 1) loss of protection (of aortas, heart etc) due to weakness of rib or 2) danger that the broken rib could get pushed into vital areas (half rib sticking into heart)?
Your scenario pretty well covers the concerns, although it would be unlikely that there would be direct puncture of the heart because of its significant lower position in relationship to the first rib. BTW, a recent report finally reveals the injury to his first rib is actually a dislocation, which essentially shares similar implications as fracture. (See below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
So in your estimation he won't be back on the field this season?
As you can see here, the 1st rib (labeled as “cervical rib” in this diagram) is located below and well behind the plane of the clavicle, which acts as sort of a first line of protection to trauma to the first rib. In order for the first rib to have been dislocated (joint identified as light blue in diagram), the massive force would have also had to create significant trauma in the form of movement, displacement, or fracture of the joint (sternoclavicular) joint that connects the inside end of the clavicle with the sternum (breast bone).



No matter what the direction of treatment is taken, and recurrent same potential life threatening scenario is to be avoided, healing must be complete. I doubt that he could again be put out there safely short of short of 4-6 weeks (and probably closer to 6 weeks).

Keep in mind that whenever the arm is moved (that’s why they initially thought it was a “shoulder” injury), there will be stress upon and movement of the sternoclavicular joint and the first rib connection to the sternum. This is an excruciatingly painful injury to begin with......but the implications to even an almost so-called “healed” QB requiring forceful throwing motion makes return to effective play potentially that much longer and unpredictable.
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012   #17
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,569
Rep Power: 69152 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Nice write up CND
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012   #18
StarStruck
Site Contributor
 
StarStruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Missouri City, Texas
Section: 115 Q6
Posts: 4,555
Rep Power: 24388 StarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respectedStarStruck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Thanks CND for the explanation. I hate to see the injuries to the players, and seemingly this past week really took a toll ofcourse with Ben's being the biggest.
StarStruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012   #19
Playoffs 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Playoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,838
Rep Power: 235494 Playoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Ben Roethlisberger Injury: Major Rib Injury Reported, Potentially Fatal

Greatly informative, Doc. Repped.

Pretty darn scary stuff, this certainly isn't one of those "gut it out" injuries. Wow.
Playoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > The National Football League
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger