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Old 11-14-2012   #21
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

bit steep in my opinion, cutler should pay half of it. head hunting a quarterback in the pocket is one thing, but when he's moving forward outside of the pocket in what could easily be a running situation, all bets should be off. if dobbins had lowered his head and used the crown as a weapon, or left his feet to launch into cutler - sure, 30k. as is, this should've topped out at 15k.
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Old 11-14-2012   #22
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
He went high at Cutler on purpose. Maybe that played into the fine.

Heres what he said:



http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...s-chicago-that
Not that it really matters rules wise, but this also clarifies that Dobbins viewed Cutler as a passer as opposed to a runner (and if you look at the replay, it's crystal clear that Cutler was stepping up in the pocket and never displayed any intent to run).
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Old 11-14-2012   #23
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Not that it really matters rules wise, but this also clarifies that Dobbins viewed Cutler as a passer as opposed to a runner (and if you look at the replay, it's crystal clear that Cutler was stepping up in the pocket and never displayed any intent to run).
BS. Cutler was running. He threw at the last second before he got smacked. Since when is the pocket at/over the LOS anyways? I didn't even see a pocket anymore, it had collapsed and he had scrambled out of there. If Dobbins wouldn't have been coming for his grill, Jay would have kept running. The guy scrambles. He ran again a play or 2 later. The only debate is which one caused the concussion.
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Old 11-14-2012   #24
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
So your saying if the NFL (meaning the Owners) were to be the party to financially benefit from the fine that it would improve things?
Fine them and have the amount count against the salary cap for the team?

At least Dobbins can feel good that some charity will benefit from his hit on Cutler.
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Old 11-14-2012   #25
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Cjeremy635 View Post
BS. Cutler was running. He threw at the last second before he got smacked. Since when is the pocket at/over the LOS anyways? I didn't even see a pocket anymore, it had collapsed and he had scrambled out of there. If Dobbins wouldn't have been coming for his grill, Jay would have kept running. The guy scrambles. He ran again a play or 2 later. The only debate is which one caused the concussion.
I"m sorry, I'm looking at this video
LINK
And I don't believe he for one second contemplated running that football.
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Old 11-14-2012   #26
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Just don't tackle him high or low.

And don't rep me, rep Champion Texan. He's the one who did the research and posted the actual text from the rulebook.
I have now repped him as well.

I don't agree though. It isn't as simple as don't tackle high or low. Guys are moving so fast on a football field that we have to at least have some semblance of consistency. If you can hit high past the LOS, then it shouldn't matter if it is a QB or not. That should not even factor into it. A slide is designated specifically for a QB. This is done to protect the QB. Now they want to throw a new wrinkle into that says, "Oh yeah even though you can hit any other player past the LOS up high, well sorry you can't do that to a QB even though he is essentially a RB at that point."

It's a BS rule, and I would feel the same way if it was Schaub. This isn't the same as a QB back in the pocket where the defender knows the QB is trying to pass the ball.
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Old 11-14-2012   #27
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I"m sorry, I'm looking at this video
LINK
And I don't believe he for one second contemplated running that football.
Well....watch this one instead and tell me where the pocket it?
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Old 11-14-2012   #28
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
Fine them and have the amount count against the salary cap for the team?

At least Dobbins can feel good that some charity will benefit from his hit on Cutler.
The cash has to go somewhere - who's pocket does it end up in under your proposal?
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Old 11-14-2012   #29
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
That is an absolutely ludicrous rule then. Rep to you though for clarifying.

A QB could then just start running, get past the LOS, still act like he is going to pass, and suddenly the defense can't tackle him like they would anyone else. This could be a huge advantage, if they were to ever utilize it, for guys like Vick, Newton, and others that can start running, freeze a defense with a fake pass forcing the defender to go low, and then juke out of the way and off he goes. This is all part of the game when the QB is behind the LOS, but it is asinine to allow it past the LOS.
I think the Dobbins play proved that there is no advantage to doing this for the QB. Cutler got passed the LOS, got lit-up, got a concussion out of it; and the result of the play? Offsetting penalties. Definitely not worth the concussion.
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Old 11-14-2012   #30
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
This is getting out of control.

Did anyone ever determine what the rule is for a QB once he is past the LOS? I thought if he was past the LOS and was not sliding that he could be treated like any other player.

It is almost to the point that the QB just needs to run the ball every damn time because if he gets hit, it will be a flag on the defense. Just put flags on the weenies already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
The rule states that a QB is a QB if he's throwing a pass (even an illegal pass) and you can't hit him high. By rule, Dobbins committed a foul.
To clarify a little bit more, there are two rules in play here. One says being beyond the LOS doesn't change the other rules. The other is any player not just a QB is a defenseless player when in the act of throwing or immediately afterward.
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Old 11-14-2012   #31
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I"m sorry, I'm looking at this video
LINK
And I don't believe he for one second contemplated running that football.
I'm astonished sometimes at what different people see. Sure, he was still attempting to throw the ball, but so does almost every damn QB in these situations. It doesn't mean he doesn't still have the option of tucking and running it, and that was what Dobbins had to be certain did not happen.
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Old 11-14-2012   #32
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

IMO he was fined so much because of his comments after the game. Sometimes it's better to just say you didn't intend to hurt him and hope he's OK.
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Old 11-14-2012   #33
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

IMO he was fined because too many qbs went out with concussions this weekend. Knee jerk reaction from the NFL
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Old 11-14-2012   #34
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Exascor View Post
IMO he was fined so much because of his comments after the game. Sometimes it's better to just say you didn't intend to hurt him and hope he's OK.
Yup. Saying:

Quote:
“But it was good that he was out, though. I mean you always want to take the quarterback out of the game.
After your hit gives the QB a concussion is asking for a fine
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Old 11-14-2012   #35
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
The cash has to go somewhere - who's pocket does it end up in under your proposal?
It would go to The Human Fund.
http://www.80stees.com/products/Huma...FSWoPAodUUkA4Q
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Old 11-14-2012   #36
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
To clarify a little bit more, there are two rules in play here. One says being beyond the LOS doesn't change the other rules. The other is any player not just a QB is a defenseless player when in the act of throwing or immediately afterward.
That is a little better, but I still have to wonder what stops the QB from being 10 yards down the field, act like he is going to throw the ball right before he gets hit, and suddenly it's a penalty? Sure, it is fairly unlikely he would do this, but it has to be settled. It either is or isn't illegal to throw the ball past the LOS. If it is illegal, then any QB past the LOS should be treated just like any other player unless he is in the act of sliding.

There would not even be a discussion here if Cutler had been behind the LOS. But he wasn't. He was in the open field and even though he was still acting like he might pass, he could break away running at any moment. I think the call was BS, and the fine is BS.
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Old 11-14-2012   #37
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Cjeremy635 View Post
Well....watch this one instead and tell me where the pocket it?
Being out of the pocket negates the low hit rule - not much else.

Cak's post actually addressed this point better than I just did.
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Old 11-14-2012   #38
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
That is a little better, but I still have to wonder what stops the QB from being 10 yards down the field, act like he is going to throw the ball right before he gets hit, and suddenly it's a penalty? Sure, it is fairly unlikely he would do this, but it has to be settled. It either is or isn't illegal to throw the ball past the LOS. If it is illegal, then any QB past the LOS should be treated just like any other player unless he is in the act of sliding.
Hey, I've seen QBs WAY past the line of scrimmage still hold up the ball faking like they're going to throw it to get people to hold up.

But, ultimately, there is what the rule is and there is what the rule "should" be.

Personally, I'm with you. If a guy is past the line of scrimmage, then he's a runner and can be hit helmet to helmet. Shouldn't matter if he's a QB who's just thrown a pass or not.

But that's not what the rule is. And you've got to play by the rules or accept the fines and penalties associated with breaking them. Dobbins broke that rule and was penalized.

Now it's time to petition the league to change the rule if we feel that strongly about it or to just move on with a better understanding of the rules for the future.
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Old 11-14-2012   #39
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Being out of the pocket negates the low hit rule - not much else.

Cak's post actually addressed this point better than I just did.
I wasn't disputing the fact that he knocked him in the jaw with his helmet, that's illegal. I was just disagreeing with your statement which was:

Quote:
Not that it really matters rules wise, but this also clarifies that Dobbins viewed Cutler as a passer as opposed to a runner (and if you look at the replay, it's crystal clear that Cutler was stepping up in the pocket and never displayed any intent to run).
I know you are familiar with what a "pocket" is. Cutler was nowhere in/near a pocket. The guy was wide open, getting ready to run down the field if Dobbins wasn't bearing down on him. He took a risk and threw the ball at the last second. Was it gutsy, or was is stupid? Guess it depends on the outcome of the play. With this outcome, it looks like a dumb move.

Also, I don't agree with Dobbins' comments after the game. Guy should have more class than that. Even "if" his intent was to knock him out of the game, and "if" that's something that the defense celebrates amongst themselves, then that is something that should be kept to himself. Statements like that only bring retaliation from other players and Schaub has had his fair share of questionable hits.
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Old 11-14-2012   #40
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Default Re: Dobbins Fined 30K

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
That is an absolutely ludicrous rule then. Rep to you though for clarifying.

A QB could then just start running, get past the LOS, still act like he is going to pass, and suddenly the defense can't tackle him like they would anyone else. This could be a huge advantage, if they were to ever utilize it, for guys like Vick, Newton, and others that can start running, freeze a defense with a fake pass forcing the defender to go low, and then juke out of the way and off he goes. This is all part of the game when the QB is behind the LOS, but it is asinine to allow it past the LOS.
I think that is what you are confusing. QBs out of the box or past the LOS canbe tackled like any other player; just no head shot & that goes for any player not just QBs. NFL has got to reduce head injuries and all the law suits are a result of NFL ignoring concussions.

Does Dobbins have any historical incidents that might have increased this amount from$15k?
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