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Old 11-13-2012   #81
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Yes, but that runner was a QB in the act of throwing the ball. So Dobbins should have played 2 hand touch and asked to carry Cutler's handbag while he was at it.


I don't know, the referee might think that was a little bit forward of Dobbins and still thrown a flag. Best just to avoid him entirely.
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Old 11-13-2012   #82
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Yes, but that runner was a QB in the act of throwing the ball. So Dobbins should have played 2 hand touch and asked to carry Cutler's handbag while he was at it.

While I agree with you... I'm thinking of my childhood whenever my parents would say something like, "do you want me to wipe that smirk off your face?"... I'm pretty sure Dobbins did that to Cutler, albeit unintentional.
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Old 11-13-2012   #83
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

When do quarterbacks take some responsibility for these type of injuries? Never, because they are competitors just like defenders. A Cutler or RG3 are not going to slide and a linebacker is not going to back off from a QB. Dobbins was in a defensive position and Cutler had just thrown from his toes, how was Dobbins supposed to stop within 1 second and position himself as to not harm the QB? Answer: it can't be done. May as well tell the defense when the QB runs, just let him go. If he fakes a throw and runs, oh well.
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Old 11-13-2012   #84
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
That doesn't match what he said in this article - Link
Heres what he said earlier:

Quote:
“I felt like [the hit] was on time,” said Dobbins.

He wasn’t sure if it was his blow or one delivered by Jackson at the end of a Cutler scramble on the very next play that ultimately meant Jason Campbell would play the second half.

“I have no idea, I have no clue,” he said, before touching on the increasingly taboo topic of knocking a player from the game. “But it was good that he was out, though. I mean you always want to take the quarterback out of the game. I hit him in his chest. I did not hit him in his head. Nowhere near it. I did not touch his helmet.”

Typically Dobbins said he would look to hit a quarterback hip-high, but as Cutler was still trying to make a play, he felt going higher gave him more of a chance to “mess up the throw as well.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...s-chicago-that

Sure sounds like he was trying to disrupt a pass
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Old 11-13-2012   #85
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
All this talk of what should happen or what ought to be is missing the point. Cutler is a QUARTERBACK in the NFL, regardless of his location on the field of play, if he's running, passing, or playing tiddlywinks. If a defensive player hits a QB in the head, anyplace on the field, he's getting fined. It's really that simple. Btch, moan, groan, gripe and/or complain about it, but that is just the way it is. And it's going to get worse, not better.
So if the Jets run the wildcat, Sanchez at receiver, Tebow in the backfield, and direct snap to Greene, who's the QB? All three? What if Greene throws it? What if he hands to Tebow who runs? Why not stock your roster with Brad Smiths and Johnny Manziels and send 7 QBs onto the field every play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
This. We got to see the line across the field for LOS but players can't see that. NFL has to stop these type of hits to protect all players; it is not always the person being hit that goes out with injury. The ball was long gone before Dobbins hit Cutler. Helmet to helmet, enough said.

Bringing up other plays is ridiculous imo. Dobbins deserves a fine and if he is suspended, I'll keep my mouth shut.
If someone would make an honest argument that Dobbins should have gotten the penalty for a late hit that's fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
What play ared you guys watching? Dobbins helmet is on the right side of Cutlers shoulder and out of view on all instant replays suggesting there was no helmet to helmet hit. Cutler was running straight up towards Dobbins. What do you suggest Dobbins do? Should he have lowered his head and hit cutler in the chest and risk a broken kneck?

Dobbins did not leave his feet. Dobbins did not wrap up cutler and drive him to the ground. Dobbins did not hit him from the side or from behind. Dobbins reacted to a runner running straight at him and nothing more.
Cutler released the ball at the 49 1/2. Contact with Dobbins was at the 48. Dobbins stopped at the 49. If Cutler was a defenseless passer standing at the 49 1/2 instead of running forward, probably no contact occurs. Yes, Dobbins took a step towards Cutler after the ball was released but Cutler also jumped into Dobbins.
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Old 11-13-2012   #86
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

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Originally Posted by Fred View Post
So if the Jets run the wildcat, Sanchez at receiver, Tebow in the backfield, and direct snap to Greene, who's the QB? All three? What if Greene throws it? What if he hands to Tebow who runs?
What if? Who cares? If a defensive player hits them IN THE HEAD (/Vizzini), then it's going to be a penalty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying what ought to be, I'm saying if you hit a QB, or really any offensive player, IN THE HEAD, you're going to get a penalty and probably a fine. That's just the way the NFL is now.
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Old 11-13-2012   #87
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
What if? Who cares? If a defensive player hits them IN THE HEAD (/Vizzini), then it's going to be a penalty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying what ought to be, I'm saying if you hit a QB, or really any offensive player, IN THE HEAD, you're going to get a penalty and probably a fine. That's just the way the NFL is now.
I don't believe Dobbins hit Cutler in the head. The replay show Dobbins head going to the right of Cutlers helmet. His head whips back b/c of the sudden stop. I will continue to say that until I get footage that states otherwise.
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Old 11-13-2012   #88
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
What if? Who cares? If a defensive player hits them IN THE HEAD (/Vizzini), then it's going to be a penalty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying what ought to be, I'm saying if you hit a QB, or really any offensive player, IN THE HEAD, you're going to get a penalty and probably a fine. That's just the way the NFL is now.
Helmet to helmet contact is allowed against a running back while he's a runner. It's even allowed against a receiver if he's not defenseless at the time.

And that's where the problem with the definition comes in. According to the rules, as soon as a QB leaves the pocket, he's supposed to "stop" being a QB and he's supposed to become a runner with the option of sliding and giving himself up to keep from being hit.

If that's the case, then Dobbins should have been able to hit him just like he did without a penalty. If the pass was illegal, then he shouldn't have been a QB anymore, he should have been a runner. The fact that he passed should be his mistake, not Dobbins'.

BUT. That's not the way the rules are going to be called. QBs are always going to get the benefit of the doubt. You hit a QB high OR low at your own risk.
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Old 11-13-2012   #89
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I don't believe Dobbins hit Cutler in the head. The replay show Dobbins head going to the right of Cutlers helmet. His head whips back b/c of the sudden stop. I will continue to say that until I get footage that states otherwise.
Did you watch the slow motion replay after it happened? The contact seemed pretty obvious...
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Old 11-13-2012   #90
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Did you watch the slow motion replay after it happened? The contact seemed pretty obvious...
I have. I have even watched it on youtube and played it frame by frame. His helmet goes to the right. Cutlers Helmet appears to snap straight back, not off to the side. This would suggest that Dobbins misses Cutlers head and the whiplash is due to the sudden stop.
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Old 11-14-2012   #91
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Even if he didn't hit him helmet to helmet:
Quote:
(b)�� Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

(1)�� Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless
player by encircling or grasping him; and
NFL RULES
MORE NFL RULES
LINK1
LINK2

Rule 8 Section 1 Supplemental Note Section (Bottom of first page at linked site):
Quote:
2) Roughing the passer rules apply on all passes (legal or illegal) thrown from behind the line of scrimmage (12-2-8). If a
pass is thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage, unnecessary roughness may apply for action against the passer.
Rule 12 Article 2 Section 7:
Quote:
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
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Old 11-14-2012   #92
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
MORE NFL RULES

Rule 8 Section 1 Supplemental Note Section (Bottom of first page at linked site):
May apply is the key word(s).
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Old 11-14-2012   #93
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
May apply is the key word(s).
Please explain how this supports your position?
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Old 11-14-2012   #94
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Please explain how this supports your position?
May apply but also may not apply. I do not believe the Dobbins hit applies to this situation.
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Old 11-14-2012   #95
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
May apply but also may not apply. I do not believe the Dobbins hit applies to this situation.
Well, he was a passer, and while it's true that he was throwing an illegal pass, the rule says very specifically that unnecessary roughness may apply even if he is in front of the line of scrimmage. That's why I think it may and does apply to this situation. Please explain why you think it does not.
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Old 11-14-2012   #96
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
MORE NFL RULES
LINK1
LINK2

Rule 8 Section 1 Supplemental Note Section (Bottom of first page at linked site):


Rule 12 Article 2 Section 7:
msr
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Old 11-14-2012   #97
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Well, he was a passer, and while it's true that he was throwing an illegal pass, the rule says very specifically that unnecessary roughness may apply even if he is in front of the line of scrimmage. That's why I think it may and does apply to this situation. Please explain why you think it does not.
Negative sir. The QB became a runner the second he advanced the football. It's not Dobbins fault Cutler pussed out and try to pass the ball.

What happened to Cutler was acutlers fault.
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Old 11-14-2012   #98
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Negative sir. The QB became a runner the second he advanced the football. It's not Dobbins fault Cutler pussed out and try to pass the ball.

What happened to Cutler was acutlers fault.
The exact wording of the NFL rule:

Quote:
If a pass is thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage, unnecessary roughness may apply for action against the passer.
A pass was thrown. He was beyond the line of scrimmage. I absolutely cannot comprehend how this is not an instance where this rule applies.

I'm not particularly optimistic about this, but if you don't believe rule applies to this play, please give me an example of where you believe it would apply.
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Old 11-14-2012   #99
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Negative sir. The QB became a runner the second he advanced the football. It's not Dobbins fault Cutler pussed out and try to pass the ball.

What happened to Cutler was acutlers fault.


You are wrong the rules clearly to match up with what you "think" should happen but that doesnt change the actual rules and how the game is called. The QB never became a runner so from the start everything you say is wrong once you make that statement
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Old 11-14-2012   #100
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Default Re: Hit on Cutler...

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I have. I have even watched it on youtube and played it frame by frame. His helmet goes to the right. Cutlers Helmet appears to snap straight back, not off to the side. This would suggest that Dobbins misses Cutlers head and the whiplash is due to the sudden stop.
I think your keen eye needs some education on momentum perhaps. Wouldn't Cutlers head snap forward instead of backwards if Dobbins hit his body but not his head? That's what physics would suggest.
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