Kareem Jackson allowing only 2.5 receptions and 35 yards per game

[C Madd]

Kareem is continuing to impress me week in and week out. Whatever Wade Phillips and Kareem have done together, let's hope they keep it up!

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by C Madd

Kareem is continuing to impress me week in and week out. Whatever Wade Phillips and Kareem have done together, let's hope they keep it up!

Hmm! That doesn't sound right! LOL!

[IlliniJen]

Kareem has definitely been a pleasant surprise and many here have noted that it's a position you simply have to mature at to get better.

But has anyone mentioned David Gibbs maybe being detrimental to KJ in his rookie year?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

But has anyone mentioned David Gibbs maybe being detrimental to KJ in his rookie year?

We mentioned that at the time, when they were talking about shuffling technique & what not.

But it's rare for a rookie Corner to come into this league & set the world on fire, especially since the rules nowadays favor the WR. Some guys have done it, McCourty had a great rookie season.

But you start a rookie corner on a bad nfl defense & you're just asking for trouble.

I thought it was coach-speak when Kubiak would comment on Kareem's confidence, that he had a short memory & wasn't letting all the bad stuff & negative talk affect him. But watching him play now, with confidence, I don't think it was coach-speak at all. He's got to have it together between the ears, to play the way he's playing now.

[JamesBill]

This is the craziest improvement I have seen in any NFL player, ever. No one needs to eat crow here because he was historically bad in his rookie year and still below average last year making big mistakes.

If a player makes a historically improbable improvement in his play, it takes crow off the menu. I am not taking anything away from how he is playing now, just saying don't forget how bad he was, even just last year.

[IlliniJen]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

This is the craziest improvement I have seen in any NFL player, ever. No one needs to eat crow here because he was historically bad in his rookie year and still below average last year making big mistakes.

If a player makes a historically improbable improvement in his play, it takes crow off the menu. I am not taking anything away from how he is playing now, just saying don't forget how bad he was, even just last year.

Only one player comes to mind: Drew Brees. He was hot garbage his first 3 or so years, and then the switch flipped on.

[foo82]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

This is the craziest improvement I have seen in any NFL player, ever. No one needs to eat crow here because he was historically bad in his rookie year and still below average last year making big mistakes.

If a player makes a historically improbable improvement in his play, it takes crow off the menu. I am not taking anything away from how he is playing now, just saying don't forget how bad he was, even just last year.

Bull****. Some of us had been defending KJAX for quite a while now. We few kept saying he did not look as bad as you guys had made him out to be, and that he was steadily progressing.

This is just another one of those "I don't want to admit I'm wrong" posts. There was no doubt in my mind that Kareem could turn it around by the third year.

Way to take the coward's way out. Man up. You were wrong.

THis wasn't a sudden transformation. THe progression he made game to game from his first game until now was pretty steady. He did not jump leaps and bounds all of a sudden for his third season.

His first 8 games, he was regularly getting burned and beaten. By the end of his rookie year, he was playing fairly decently (not great, but pretty serviceable).

By his second year, he worked on his big weakness, which was technique, and getting beat on deep routes. He stuck to his man on deep routes stride for stride, but did not make any play on the ball.

This year, he focused on making plays on the ball and turning around at the right moment.

He did what anyone should do. Focus on one weakness, and turn it into a strength. Once you have that down, you move on to the next weakness.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

This is the craziest improvement I have seen in any NFL player, ever. No one needs to eat crow here because he was historically bad in his rookie year and still below average last year making big mistakes.

If a player makes a historically improbable improvement in his play, it takes crow off the menu. I am not taking anything away from how he is playing now, just saying don't forget how bad he was, even just last year.

Nah, as the famous EllisUnit was fond to say, "if a guy is bad to start with, he can never improve enough to worth a darn".

[76Texan]

I wrote a long-A addendum to Fiddler's post but didn't really want to "rehash" so I put it off.

Guess I should have gone ahead with it, so here goes.

....

I have never liked the fact that they (the Texans) threw too much out there for the young guys to learn.

I had talked at length how the Pats used McCourty in the first half of his rookie season.
They played cover 2 for the most part and relied on the pass rush of the front four (or front three, depending).

As little as they blitzed, their front did an adequate job (they were as "efficient" as we were without as much blitzing.)

This allowed them to "almost always" have a safety over the top to help McCourty.
This in turn, gave McCourty the freedom to play aggressive without fear of getting burned deep whether in zone or in man under.

In the second half of the season, they gave McCourty more responsibilities and he looked bad.

On the other hand, I can guarantee with you that in the second half, KJax was already ahead of the learning curve.
Most of the bad plays occured in the first half of the season.


Which came back to how they threw KJax into the fire from the get-go.
(So much that Kubiak had to admit to some reporter at the 2011 combine that they put KJax in some bad situations.)

Not only did they install him as the #1 CB, they also left him on an island quite a bit.
And when he wasn't supposed to be on an island, his safety help failed him on many occasions.

I had also made comparison with Patrick Peterson who was a high draft choice for the Cardinals the following year (2011).
The Cards did put him in a tough situation just the same; however, his safety help was better than what KJax got.
Yet, he got burned even worse as ProFootballFocus charged him as the third guy on the list of "marked men" in 2011, giving up 869 yards on 67 receptions.
(McCourty was the second man on the list, giving up 1,004 yards on 62 receptions.)

Neither McCourty nor Peterson had to spend time learning "new" stuffs like the shuffle.

The learning curve between McCourty and KJax couldn't have been any more different.
It was like one guy was going to regular school, and the other was in advanced placement classes.

[JamesBill]

Originally Posted by foo82

Bull****. Some of us had been defending KJAX for quite a while now.

This is just another one of those "I don't want to admit I'm wrong" posts.

Way to take the coward's way out. Man up. You were wrong.

THis wasn't a sudden transformation. THe progression he made game to game from his first game until now was pretty steady. He did not jump leaps and bounds all of a sudden for his third season.

By his second year, he worked on his big weakness, which was technique, and getting beat on deep routes. He stuck to his man on deep routes stride for stride, but did not make any play on the ball.

I give your rant 2/5. Deduct points for misdirected rage and repeating what I said.

He went from historically bad to subpar to average to plus. I didn't say any different, and not sure why I am a coward. He in no way deserved to start his rookie year, and last year was still getting pulled off the field.

What was I wrong about? If you were defending him his rookie year, YOU were wrong. He sucked and was a huge part of us wasting a year of productive offense. Not his fault, but still a fact.

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Nah, as the famous EllisUnit was fond to say, "if a guy is bad to start with, he can never improve enough to worth a darn".

Historically accurate, especially considering how bad #25 was initially.

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Not only did they install him as the #1 CB, they also left him on an island quite a bit.
And when he wasn't supposed to be on an island, his safety help failed him on many occasions.

Well Glover was the #1, and Jackson could never play bump and run because he would just fall down after any contact. By this time his rookie year Jason Allen had arrived. Obviously poor coaching and technique, but still his production was baaaaaaaaad......

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

Only one player comes to mind: Drew Brees. He was hot garbage his first 3 or so years, and then the switch flipped on.

I would hear that argument, I don't think I agree but people probably rank Brees higher than I would today. Another point is QB is the hardest position to learn and big improvements are expected. Look how much better Schaub is.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

Well Glover was the #1, and Jackson could never play bump and run because he would just fall down after any contact. By this time his rookie year Jason Allen had arrived. Obviously poor coaching and technique, but still his production was baaaaaaaaad......

I'm not sure I understand what you meant in reference to EllisUnit and historically accurate; so if you can make it a little clearer I would appreciate it.

On the part about Glover being #1, that was simply not true.

Like I've said many times before, I don't rely on memory.
I had done play by play break down of several games in 2010 and I had posted some during that season.

Now, I still have all the games; I just went through the first two games.
With the shortcut version (no commercial, no stoppage) you can go through the offense in about 15 minutes.

Against the Colts, KJax played LCB while McCain played RCB.
Quin played the nickel as the Colts were strictly a one-back offense.

Against the Skins, KJax was the true #1 CB and Quin was the #2.
The Skins was more of a 2-back offense.
With a single receiver on the field, it would be KJ in coverage.
With two receivers, when they lined up on the same side, KJ would be the outside CB with Quin as the inside CB.
Occasionally, when the Skins went with a one-back formation, Quin moved inside to nickel; KJax and McCain manned the outside.

That said, the part about how he would fall down after any contact can only be thought of as your relying too much on your memory.

In the off-season after that year, I had already pointed out that several Texans defenders fell down. Quin fell down as regularly as KJax. And if you pro-rate the numbers of snaps they were out there, there was no telling who fell down the most (it could have been McCain, it could have been Allen, it could have been Quin, it could have been KJax.)

The problem was many people concentrated solely on KJax so they turned a blind eye on the other DBs.
And many never conceded the fact that the safety play was so bad such that Wade let them go with very little to no care at all when he first joined the Texans.

[JamesBill]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

On the part about Glover being #1, that was simply not true.

Like I've said many times before, I don't rely on memory.
I had done play by play break down of several games in 2010 and I had posted some during that season.

Now, I still have all the games; I just went through the first two games.
With the shortcut version (no commercial, no stoppage) you can go through the offense in about 15 minutes.

Against the Colts, KJax played LCB while McCain played RCB.
Quin played the nickel as the Colts were strictly a one-back offense.

Against the Skins, KJax was the true #1 CB and Quin was the #2.
The Skins was more of a 2-back offense.
With a single receiver on the field, it would be KJ in coverage.
With two receivers, when they lined up on the same side, KJ would be the outside CB with Quin as the inside CB.
Occasionally, when the Skins went with a one-back formation, Quin moved inside to nickel; KJax and McCain manned the outside.

That is the first two games, his snap counts went down and roles changed during the season when he seemed to actually regress. Jason Allen
came in and McCain didn't even suit up late in the season.
After the first two games we were all mostly just pumped about Arian and Andre. We obviously were a BIT suspicious watching joey galloway run right past Jackson all day.

Originally Posted by 76Texan

That said, the part about how he would fall down after any contact can only be thought of as your relying too much on your memory.

I said they couldn't play bump and run. He stopped falling down because the genius coaching staff "adjusted" by playing the corners 10-15 yards off the line to avoid those devastating deep balls which came after being run over or being run by. I think it became obvious you didn't have to knock him over to get by him so they stopped trying.

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The problem was many people concentrated solely on KJax so they turned a blind eye on the other DBs.
And many never conceded the fact that the safety play was so bad such that Wade let them go with very little to no care at all when he first joined the Texans.

Glover was the best DB that year and the rest were all poor save Jason Allen, but #25 had the ability to make guys who never played in the NFL again look like superstars.

[JamesBill]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I'm not sure I understand what you meant in reference to EllisUnit and historically accurate; so if you can make it a little clearer I would appreciate it.

That for the most part, the rule rings true. In life and in football, someone who starts off as bad as #25 does, very rarely makes these types of improvements.

Originally Posted by foo82

Bull****. Some of us had been defending KJAX for quite a while now. We few kept saying he did not look as bad as you guys had made him out to be, and that he was steadily progressing.

Well you weren't here in 2010 (in this form) but I found this after the Texans slaughtered the Titans.

Originally Posted by foo82

Hm. I keep thinking Kareem would make a good Safety. He doesn't react well with his back to the ball, but man can he tackle well.

No one has ever questioned his tackling ability, and his YAC allowed has always been good. A first round CB being converted to safety in his 2nd year is a big time bust though. So I am not sure how much you consider yourself having his back.

[foo82]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

No one has ever questioned his tackling ability, and his YAC allowed has always been good. A first round CB being converted to safety in his 2nd year is a big time bust though. So I am not sure how much you consider yourself having his back.

Saying he would make a good safety does not mean he is a bust as a CB. I'm simply commenting that he has the tools to be a good safety. He is both physical and a great tackler. I also did not say he 100% should be converted to safety, just that imo he would make a great safety.

[Playoffs]

ProFootballFocus has a signature statistic they measure called Coverage snaps per reception. It is the amount of times a cornerback is the primary man in coverage relative to how many receptions he allows. Kareem Jackson (15.0) is rated 5th out of 73 CBs who have taken at least 50% of a team's snaps.

The Bears game was his highest coverage & overall ratings this year.

Kareem is rated 11th out of 106 CBs in coverage for CBs that took at least 25% of their team's snaps. Interesting that a couple of CBs many think will excel are at the bottom of the list: Patrick Robinson (32nd pick) 104th, Janoris Jenkins 106th (39th pick). It can take time for some guys to figure it out.

Also at the bottom of the coverage rating list is Dumbta Robinson, at 100/106.

[buddyboy]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

This is the craziest improvement I have seen in any NFL player, ever. No one needs to eat crow here because he was historically bad in his rookie year and still below average last year making big mistakes.

If a player makes a historically improbable improvement in his play, it takes crow off the menu. I am not taking anything away from how he is playing now, just saying don't forget how bad he was, even just last year.

Disagree.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that people need to come in and eat crow. I'm not, don't interpret this as such.

What I disagree with is that because of his play in his first year (FIRST. YEAR.), that somehow, people are/were justified in calling him a bust or saying he'd never amount to anything.

You said it yourself, based on his play, it looked that way, and that historically, it was unlikely to happen. And I agree. But that does NOT mean we should judge him as a player, or more specifically, label him as a bust after a year of play. Even two years of play.

Basic patience tells us to wait at least 3 years to make a decision on a player. Knee jerk, instant gratification fans tell us they can tell how good a player will be after their first year, their first game sometimes.

So no, you don't need to eat crow. It was unlikely. But don't justify people's villification of Kareem the historically bad CB on a historically bad defense (chicken or the egg, by the way?).

[noxiousdog]

The Texans did Jackson no favors his rookie year. In addition to him being a rookie, the safety play was historically bad (even for us). I know there were many times that KJ looked awful but was supposed to be getting help that never arrived.

[Texn4life]

Most people say when judging rookies that you need to give them 3 years before you can evaluate them. Kareem was terrible his first year and no one will argue that for the most part, but I thought because he was so bad his first year he got a bad rap in his second. He only had 1 flaw in his game at all last year and that was making plays on the ball.

Fast forward to year 3 and it seems like the game has slowed down so much for him now. He's playing much faster because his understanding has increased. Its been hammered home here, but I don't know many elite Corners in the game today that didn't have struggles early on. Just last year people were questioning whether Patrick Peterson was ever gonna be an elite corner. I've liked Kareem's game dating back to Alabama and thought his ceiling was much higher than Javier Arenas which is why he was drafted in front of him. Arenas was successful for KC early on because of the positions they put him in, but now KJax is the much better player because his talent is taking over. Its kind of why I wish Brandon Harris was getting some run now because I think year 3 could be good for him as well. Without experience though I don't know how much he can develop.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by playoffs

profootballfocus has a signature statistic they measure called coverage snaps per reception. It is the amount of times a cornerback is the primary man in coverage relative to how many receptions he allows. Kareem jackson (15.0) is rated 5th out of 73 cbs who have taken at least 50% of a team's snaps.

The bears game was his highest coverage & overall ratings this year.

Kareem is rated 11th out of 106 cbs in coverage for cbs that took at least 25% of their team's snaps. Interesting that a couple of cbs many think will excel are at the bottom of the list: Patrick robinson (32nd pick) 104th, janoris jenkins 106th (39th pick). It can take time for some guys to figure it out.

Also at the bottom of the coverage rating list is dumbta robinson, at 100/106.

msr

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by JamesBill

That for the most part, the rule rings true. In life and in football, someone who starts off as bad as #25 does, very rarely makes these types of improvements.

Or could it be that #25 was never bad to start with.

Think about that for a moment.

The Texans have finally been proven that they had been pretty good with their draft choice.

What is it that the Texans scouts and coaches saw in KJax when they drafted him?
A BAD player?
For them to go out and select a BAD player with their first round pick makes as much sense as... well, it doesn't any sense.