Jonathan Joseph

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Notice I said "when they needed it the most".

yeah, but the game was being called tight, tight, tight right off the bat. Advantage passing team and not so good for the man coverage team.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Joseph was doing his share of pushing beyond the 5 yard zone if you are being honest...I was talking about that last night with friends.

You are right. It seems that I notice this in all games more and more. It's almost like offensive holding and defensive illegal use of the hands. And the refs seem to be becoming more and more arbitrary as to when and on which of the paired offenders they call the penalty...........many times that determining the outcome of the game.

[Errant Hothy]

Per Kubiak's presser; J-Jo day-to-day with a sore groin.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

You are right. It seems that I notice this in all games more and more. It's almost like offensive holding and defensive illegal use of the hands. And the refs seem to be becoming more and more arbitrary as to when and on which of the paired offenders they call the penalty...........many times that determining the outcome of the game.

The wider the grey area, the more leeway they have.
And that's exactly what they want.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Vinny

you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

This was a big part of the problem last night for sure. We were asking our corners to cover for 4+ seconds, 5+ on many occasions & when Rodgers got out of the box, it's over. DBs are at such a poor disadvantage in this situation it isn't funny, especially when you're talking one on one with no safety help.

That being said, Jjo has been off his game for quite some time. I mentioned a while back that he wasn't playing near the same pro-bowl level since game 2. People thought I was crazy & lacked any football sense, yet two weeks later they come public that he's been dealing with a groin issue.

This kind of thing can be bad for us. He could heal... I doubt it as long as they keep asking him to cover the other teams best WR for a whole game. Or, it could get worse & we lose him when we need him most.

His pay has gone from, "good but not as good as he has been" to "starting to get picked on" Might as well throw Ball & Harris out there, let them get some game experience & help Jjo heal. We're going to get the same level of play regardless.

[wolf123]

Fidd, You said it after he completely shut down a top WR..... He play in the denver game was lights out. He's been terrible the past two game..

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by dream_team

I know you're sort of kidding, but how does a DC get a HC job by having your defense play like crap?

Dallas' O sucked butt and the OC got promoted after wade was let go.

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by Vinny

you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

This is what I was talking about at work today. There was no safety help all game long.

My question is our ILB'ers so bad that we are having to play our safeties up?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Stemp

I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game, but from what I could tell, he DIDN't have or need a ton of time in the pocket because he was getting the ball out so fast. And his receivers were making some ridiculous catches to boot. Everything went right for Green Bay, including being on the right side of some questionable calls.

There were a couple of quick throws, but most of the time, he was having to go through his progression. He escaped several sacks & chased out of the pocket several times. He extended plays & made it very difficult for our secondary to play man coverage. He's deadly on the run.

Then some of his throws, were amazingly placed where his receiver was the only one who could get it. They had to make amazing catches, & they did.

Everything was going their way last night, which is one reason we should just put this game behind us. It's rare that everything would go the way of one team. For whatever reason, it was Green Bay's turn last night. Won't happen again.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

which by default you're giving up the slant..a staple of GB's offense.

Not necessarily. Giving up that cushion is about keeping the play in front of you. Watch the QB, watch the receiver. If it looks like a slant, drive on the ball. It could be an interception, or a highlight reel hit where the receiver can't pull the ball in because he's got a 200lb man running through him.

[Texan_Bill]

Play JJo this weekend v. the Ravens because Uni-brow guy (aka Flacco) hits the broad-side of a barn once in a while. After that we have a bye week. Next game after that is Marion, errrrr Marilou Williams supposed "Judgement Day"... Sit JJo for that game and let him rest up his groin for the final half of the season. In effect that would be nearly three weeks of rest.

I don't care what the JJo or the Texans are saying, he is clearly still suffering from the groin. He doesn't go from one of the top two or three corners to what we've seen over the last two or three weeks without a reason.

REST HIM!!!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Joseph was doing his share of pushing beyond the 5 yard zone if you are being honest...I was talking about that last night with friends.

That's what I hate most about the PI call on Kj... they were letting them play for the most part. Should have called PI on a lot of plays, both ways, but they didn't.

Makes you wonder how they decide when to call it & when not to. Then on the Kj PI, the ref that was right in front of him didn't call it, but some guy on the other side of the field who saw nothing but Kj's back. He couldn't see if he touched him or not.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Not necessarily. Giving up that cushion is about keeping the play in front of you. Watch the QB, watch the receiver. If it looks like a slant, drive on the ball. It could be an interception, or a highlight reel hit where the receiver can't pull the ball in because he's got a 200lb man running through him.

Folks around here used to get down right livid with richard smith b/c he'd always keep his cb's back with that 5+ yard cushion for the exact same reason you describe above. & Manning used to eat us alive with quick slants right in front of the cb all the way down the field. Then Smith would get desperate late in the game & put them in press man & we'd watch Faggins & god knows how many other scrubs we had playing for us then get beat over the top.

So while in theory i agree with you, Any decent qb is still going to complete those quick slants with that much cushion 7 out 10 times. If that's the percentage for qb's of schaub's caliber, how much more would you wager that elite qb's like rodgers would complete that pass? 8 out of 10? 9 out of 10?

KJ knows. Drew Brees & Lance Moore ate him alive with quick slants/whip routes in 2 seperate drives last year.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

He was listed as having a groin issue in weeks 3 and 4. Week 5 he disappeared from the injury list altogether and reappeared in week 6 as a knee. Despite this, I have heard people and announcers keep talking about his groin slowing him down. Who knows how really accurate any of the injury reports are. However, groin issues can easily turn into or add to knee issues through compensation.

Kubiak yesterday:

(on if CB Johnathan Joseph has been bothered by a sore groin in recent weeks) “He’s missed a little practice time. We’ve given him some Wednesdays off, given him some time off. He’s had some soreness, nothing to keep him from playing. He’s played with it before. The biggest thing is we’re about 350 to 400 snaps into this season, so it’s a lot of snaps and obviously he’s on the field all the time covering their best. We may have to be smart with him this week and get him to Sunday. We think he’ll be okay. It’s something that he’s been able to work through before, and hopefully he’ll work through it again.”

And how has that "work through" worked out for him and the team in the past 2 games? Again, then. How has he escaped being listed "groin" in the past 2 weeks on the official Injury Report, coach Kubelichick?

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Kubiak yesterday:



And how has that "work through" worked out for him and the team in the past 2 games? Again, then. How has he escaped being listed "groin" in the past 2 weeks on the official Injury Report, coach Kubelichick?

ehh, that goes both ways though. These guys don't want to miss any games and the coaches sure as hell don't want them to miss any either. So him not being listed might be J Jo saying..."im alright coach, nothing major"..& who is coach kubes to argue with the guy?

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

This is what I was talking about at work today. There was no safety help all game long.

My question is our ILB'ers so bad that we are having to play our safeties up?

Wade was in Dime probably >50% of the game at minimum. Dobbins probably saw the least amount of snaps, followed by the tandem of Cody/Mitchell (if we count that position and not the players themselves). They had Quin lining up in the ILB spot a bunch in these particular Dime packages.

From what I saw at the game, we just couldn't get in Rodgers's face enough to keep him from taking advantage of singled up CB's. Reed, Barwin, and Smith were all basically duds in terms of pass rushing, which put us in a hole defensively. Watt was pretty good, even getting doubled and tripled, but you have to have at least one of those guys beating their block on a good amount of the plays if they are using long developing passing routes.

In our wins, most of the time, Reed or Smith would be the guys who would at least get close if Watt wasn't getting home, but in this game the normally subpar Packers O-line did pretty well protecting Rodgers. They did have some timely running plays, but overall their line basically played spectacularly and that made it very hard for the back to keep up with those Packer receivers, even if they were missing Jennings.

[Mr teX]

Yeah, vinny said it in another thread i believe but Wade got outcoached. Once you saw how they were attacking you, (running right at Quinn), you should've took your chances with leaving Dobbins and James in..That way Quinn and Manning could stay back over the top.

You take the chance of Finley killing you, but at least you can take the run away completely & keep safety help over the top. You can also blitz a bit more effectively.

I think wade realized this, I saw a few times James/Dobbins came on blitzes straight up the middle & flushed Rodgers, but by then it was too late.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

ehh, that goes both ways though. These guys don't want to miss any games and the coaches sure as hell don't want them to miss any either. So him not being listed might be J Jo saying..."im alright coach, nothing major"..& who is coach kubes to argue with the guy?

No argument there. Then I would strongly suggest that McNair consider saving some big bucks and just eliminate the team medical staff.

[disaacks3]

Originally Posted by Errant Hothy

Per Kubiak's presser; J-Jo day-to-day with a sore groin.

I guess that explians why he wasn't even on the field for the TD pass when Ball got torched. (I never noticed it at the game, but rewound several times on replay to confirm).

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Folks around here used to get down right livid with richard smith b/c he'd always keep his cb's back with that 5+ yard cushion for the exact same reason you describe above.

Again, just because they play off the receiver isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a technique that works well, even against the slant. The problem in the past, is that our corners weren't good enough to stop the slant working with as much cushion as was given. Then they weren't any good, playing press.

Originally Posted by Mr teX

So while in theory i agree with you, Any decent qb is still going to complete those quick slants with that much cushion 7 out 10 times. If that's the percentage for qb's of schaub's caliber, how much more would you wager that elite qb's like rodgers would complete that pass? 8 out of 10? 9 out of 10?

It's not about the QB. IT's more about the reciever knowing he's going to get blown up.

Originally Posted by Mr teX

KJ knows. Drew Brees & Lance Moore ate him alive with quick slants/whip routes in 2 seperate drives last year.

eh.... he used that same technique at different points during that game & held Brees in check for most of them. For whatever reason, he played those two drives poorly. It wasn't that he was off the receiver, but he wouldn't attack the ball.

Jjo has been using that a lot lately, I assume because of his groin. He can't run like he used to, so he's trying to get an edge.... cheat a little on the deep routes. If he were 100%, it would have been a totally different game & he'd have played it totally different.