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Old 10-13-2012   #81
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
According to Rapoport, Johnson seemed resigned to that technique working.[/url]
Doc, you know that Johnson always "seemed resigned" right?

Obviously, nobody can deny Mother Nature.
The effects of multiple injuries eventually will catch up to Andre, but right now, I think he's fine.

In one of the interview, he even said that he thought he would play ten years and retire, but now that the tenth years comes, he feels like he can still play some more.

He seems like the kind of guy who will tell you whether he feels like he's starting to slow down.
At least, I hope so!
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Old 10-13-2012   #82
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

Dre is done as an elite WR. No biggie. He's still the best we have and teams know it
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Old 10-13-2012   #83
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

For those who have pointed out that AJ has been thwarted by the CB playing under and the Safety playing over the top, he has been presented with this type of coverage from day one........and this never curtailed his performance. The thing that has changed is that the classic counter moves for this type of coverage which he successfully typically used............cutting sharply on an in or out to get away from being caught directly within the CB/Safety "sandwich", or turning back on an abrupt hitch or hook to get in front of the CB........has disappeared.
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Old 10-13-2012   #84
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
For those who have pointed out that AJ has been thwarted by the CB playing under and the Safety playing over the top, he as been presented with this type of coverage from day one........and this never curtailed his performance. The thing that has changed is that the classic counter moves for this type of coverage which he successfully typically used............cutting sharply on an in or out to get away from being caught directly within the CB/Safety "sandwich", or turning back on an abrupt hitch or hook to get in front of the CB........has disappeared.
Yeah, but how many other times in games would Schaub force the ball to AJ on a lot more plays allowing him to out muscle and size guys up?? I watched AJ make a ton of bad ass plays in pre season and in game 1 especially in that 2nd half. I did not see any slowing down of AJ.

You guys are forgetting that we've been holding leads over every team practically and Kubes is running the ball and we're not having to throw down the field nearly as much, because Kubes is calling a much more conservative game plan to hold the lead. AJ simply isn't being targeted as much from what I've observed. As far as AJ's physical abilities and positioning to get open, I don't see any differences here. In year's past we were always having to have shootouts with teams and playing from behind, so AJ had to do a lot more.
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Old 10-13-2012   #85
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

I am with Tex on this one. I don't agree he hasn't been able to cut this year (maybe with a slight cautiousness against the Jets). He has jocked several DB's on wicked double moves this season. His production is down because of less targets and a hopefully very temporary case of dropsies. Without those drops he would be at 400 yds and 4 TD's. That we be a better pace than his best year and that's with lower targets.
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Old 10-13-2012   #86
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Yeah, but how many other times in games would Schaub force the ball to AJ on a lot more plays allowing him to out muscle and size guys up?? I watched AJ make a ton of bad ass plays in pre season and in game 1 especially in that 2nd half. I did not see any slowing down of AJ.

You guys are forgetting that we've been holding leads over every team practically and Kubes is running the ball and we're not having to throw down the field nearly as much, because Kubes is calling a much more conservative game plan to hold the lead. AJ simply isn't being targeted as much from what I've observed. As far as AJ's physical abilities and positioning to get open, I don't see any differences here. In year's past we were always having to have shootouts with teams and playing from behind, so AJ had to do a lot more.
Then I'd have to ask what happened when Cromartie intercepted the ball in front of AJ while AJ kept watching the ball which was obvious to him and everyone else that it was going to be short but didn't make any attempt to sharply stop and hook back around or go over Cromartie to try to catch or even deflect the ball. It would be hard bent to think that if he could have, he wouldn't have.
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Old 10-13-2012   #87
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Then I'd have to ask what happened when Cromartie intercepted the ball in front of AJ while AJ kept watching the ball which was obvious to him and everyone else that it was going to be short but didn't make any attempt to sharply stop and hook back around or go over Cromartie to try to catch or even deflect the ball. It would be hard bent to think that if he could have, he wouldn't have.
I have been saying for 4-5 years one defect in AJ's game is aggressiveness back to under thrown balls and on hook routes. He has long not done as much as he could to prevent INT's by getting in between the ball and the DB even enough to interfere.
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Old 10-13-2012   #88
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
For those who have pointed out that AJ has been thwarted by the CB playing under and the Safety playing over the top, he has been presented with this type of coverage from day one........and this never curtailed his performance. The thing that has changed is that the classic counter moves for this type of coverage which he successfully typically used............cutting sharply on an in or out to get away from being caught directly within the CB/Safety "sandwich", or turning back on an abrupt hitch or hook to get in front of the CB........has disappeared.
OK, Doc.
I've already mentioned him running the speed out and deep in routes in the Jets game with sharp cuts.

Here, I'm going to do the first half of the Dolphins game.
I will only mention certain routes that seem to be in question.

1st quarter:

11:27 AJ ran a deep out and caught the ball for 11 yards.

7:58 AJ ran an 18-yd deep comeback toward the inside (at 45%).
This is pretty much a hook/hitch type of route to beat double coverage that you were asking for.
Schaub was sacked, however.

2nd quarter:

13:53 AJ ran 23-yd deep comeback, this time, toward the side line.
Schaub was on a bootleg and couldn't set up quick enough to throw a good ball.
CB had time to react back to knock the ball away.

11:51 AJ ran a 10-yd deep in and left the CB on the ground.
However, Schaub went to OD who beat the LB right off the bat.

2:30 AJ ran a 6/7-yd quick hook.
He got separation, but Schaub was pressured and scrambled for 2.

2:03 AJ ran a 5-yd quick in.
He was also open, but Schaub went to OD right in front of him for 11.
The LB turned the wrong way.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with AJ.

In the Jets game, he ran more post routes to take away the double team and open it up for the other guys.
It's just different game planning.

I only hope that he doesn't suffer a groin/hamstring type of injury, that's all.
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Old 10-13-2012   #89
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying our 31 year old wide receiver fresh off an injury plagued season and surgery doesn't look the same.

In fact, to say "there's nothing wrong with him" is probably the more illogical statement.

Fact of the matter is he decided to undergo a surgery that would benefit him short term and hinder him long term, and there's a chance that short term may be coming to an end.

HOWEVER, that doesn't take away from the fact that he's the best we've got, and still the guy we fans expect to be there when we need him the most.
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Old 10-13-2012   #90
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Then I'd have to ask what happened when Cromartie intercepted the ball in front of AJ while AJ kept watching the ball which was obvious to him and everyone else that it was going to be short but didn't make any attempt to sharply stop and hook back around or go over Cromartie to try to catch or even deflect the ball. It would be hard bent to think that if he could have, he wouldn't have.
The ball just got there too quickly, Doc.
He did make the tackle right away.
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Old 10-13-2012   #91
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Against Denver Andre broke up a pass that was almost intercepted.

The pass against Miami on fourth down a few years ago where Andre reached around a guy and caught the ball was one of the best catches I've ever seen. This was the qb draw on the goal line game. Earlier on that last drive Aj made that catch on 4TH DOWN to keep the drive a live. That catch is seared in my brain and that is the catch that to me symbolizes andres greatness. That catch and the one against Arizona where he ran through the lb and safety for the TD.
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Old 10-13-2012   #92
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by ATXtexanfan View Post
Dre is done as an elite WR. No biggie. He's still the best we have and teams know it
You sound so certain of yourself, well you shouldn't be.

Andre at 75% is still an elite receiver, I thunk early on this year and off to a 5-0 start we have had no reason to rely on him so they are letting him take it a bit easier. When the time comes I have no doubt he will rise to the occasion. I agree Tex with the conservative play calling also being a factor.

O ya and that old guy is about to have 10,000 yards receiving.
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Old 10-13-2012   #93
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I haven't seen anything wring with Andre by the way. Before the game me and another poster (sorry I can't remember who it was to give proper credit) mentioned how we thought cromartie matched up well with Andre.

Cromartie can more than keep up with him speed wise, and he has the size and athleticism to challenge him for balls that are thrown his way. Cromartie would likely struggle to guard a guy like Martin who can change direction on a dime because his stride isn't as long.

As far as the drops go, andre has dropped a few catchable balls in his career. He always has. That is not new. That's not to say it's a problem, but he just drops a few easy ones every now and then.

I dint have a huge problem with any if our wrs so far. I couldn't see all the routes against the jets, but it seemed like we were running a bunch of vertical routes, or routes that were designed to go over ten yards.

I would have liked to have seen kmart used more as a short passing option like the patriots use welker. Even if he only gets 3-5 yards it still has it's purpose.
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Old 10-13-2012   #94
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
OK, Doc.
I've already mentioned him running the speed out and deep in routes in the Jets game with sharp cuts.

Here, I'm going to do the first half of the Dolphins game.
I will only mention certain routes that seem to be in question.

1st quarter:

11:27 AJ ran a deep out and caught the ball for 11 yards.

7:58 AJ ran an 18-yd deep comeback toward the inside (at 45%).
This is pretty much a hook/hitch type of route to beat double coverage that you were asking for.
Schaub was sacked, however.

2nd quarter:

13:53 AJ ran 23-yd deep comeback, this time, toward the side line.
Schaub was on a bootleg and couldn't set up quick enough to throw a good ball.
CB had time to react back to knock the ball away.

11:51 AJ ran a 10-yd deep in and left the CB on the ground.
However, Schaub went to OD who beat the LB right off the bat.

2:30 AJ ran a 6/7-yd quick hook.
He got separation, but Schaub was pressured and scrambled for 2.

2:03 AJ ran a 5-yd quick in.
He was also open, but Schaub went to OD right in front of him for 11.
The LB turned the wrong way.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with AJ.


In the Jets game, he ran more post routes to take away the double team and open it up for the other guys.
It's just different game planning.

I only hope that he doesn't suffer a groin/hamstring type of injury, that's all.
I get the feeling that you feel that I'm making a case for Andre is essentially done. That is the furthest thing from what I am trying to present. He can certainly still be a very productive player on this team. But I do see some physical limitations that he is and likely will be dealing with from here on out. I will respectfully leave you to your own conclusion when you say that you don't see anything wrong with AJ. But knowing what the type of injuries he has incurred and their implications, along with what I continue to observe in general, you'll have to excuse me if I choose to believe my lying eyes.
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Old 10-13-2012   #95
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To me, in the jets game...there were two passes where I think Schaub expected his WR to make a bigger effort to get to a spot on the field.

One was the AJ target where Cromartie picks it off. I will maintain that I think AJ was not running as hard as Schaub might have expected AJ to, which means Schaub was leading him a bit more than he should have. Watching that play in real time, AJ looked sluggish and wasn't (IMO) running hard enough.

A second play was a scramble by Schaub where there was tons of own field to the sideline, Schaub throws it there and Walter never really understood that's where Schaub was wanting him (Walter) to get to, to bail them out. Granted, it was busted and all players are scrambling...but still, Walter half-assed that scramble and should have known to go there and to get there quickly.

Those are the two types of plays that Owen Daniels thrives on, he's so instinctual and seems to hit overdrive very quickly. He's Schaub's most reliable receiver when it comes to bring not only in the right spot on any given situation, but also gets there quick enough to get separation to make the catch AND get crazy YAC too.

I think we'll see a "return to form" by AJ this week. He's going to want to have a do-over.
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Old 10-13-2012   #96
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by DaTruthExplodes View Post
andre has been done as a elite receiver 2 years ago.

He's been skating by on reputation alone the past couple years.
You're so wrong it hurts. It's like listening to my 6 year old try to explain theorhetical physics.
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Old 10-13-2012   #97
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I get the feeling that you feel that I'm making a case for Andre is essentially done. That is the furthest thing from what I am trying to present. He can certainly still be a very productive player on this team. But I do see some physical limitations that he is and likely will be dealing with from here on out. I will respectfully leave you to your own conclusion when you say that you don't see anything wrong with AJ. But knowing what the type of injuries he has incurred and their implications, along with what I continue to observe in general, you'll have to excuse me if I choose to believe my lying eyes.
Like I said, Doc, if the Texans had targeted AJ as many times as they did in 09 and 2010 (nearly 11 targets per game), when you pro-rate this year production (6 targets per game), he will have a better year than either of those two years (both in number of catches, number of yards, and number of TDs.)

And like I said, he's been getting open.
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Old 10-13-2012   #98
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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To me, in the jets game...there were two passes where I think Schaub expected his WR to make a bigger effort to get to a spot on the field.

One was the AJ target where Cromartie picks it off. I will maintain that I think AJ was not running as hard as Schaub might have expected AJ to, which means Schaub was leading him a bit more than he should have. Watching that play in real time, AJ looked sluggish and wasn't (IMO) running hard enough.
What are you talking about GP?

The ball was at best a hair late and quite short.
If AJ had run any harder, he would have overran the ball by a mile.
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Old 10-13-2012   #99
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Against Denver Andre broke up a pass that was almost intercepted.
This is probably the pass to start the second half.

This one should have been a PI of 40 some yards.

AJ ran a skinny post from the slot (more like a post corner route, but not really that sharp.)

AJ beat both the corner and the safety.
The CB (#20 Adams) ran into AJ back (but he managed to stop himself before it became too obvious.)
It was enough to cause AJ to lose a bit of balance.
Also, the ball was a little short and late (or AJ was "too fast"), AJ had to wait for it.
The ball then grazed AJ's shoulder pad (as he lost some balance) such that he couldn't pull it in cleanly; the ball bounced around in the air.

The safety came, and AJ had to play defender to break up that INT.

If the CB didn't bump into AJ, that one would have been at least a 50yd completion.
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Old 10-14-2012   #100
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

AJ is looking mortal this season. Hopefully he's saving up his mojo for a major playoff push.
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