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Old 10-13-2012   #61
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
If you don't think Rick Smith has the stones to make AJ the next salary cap casualty, you must not remember what he did with Demeco Ryans.
It's not the same situation. He let Meco go because we already had Brian Cushing playing at an elite level. Who's gonna fill in for AJ? Keyshawn Martin?
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Old 10-13-2012   #62
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
That raises a question of how often we are in 3 or 4 WR sets, how much Schaub is targetting them, are they getting seperation etc.

There are so many factors to consider when talking about WR production.

Not to mention the fact we do like to run the ball a whole lot.
I would argue that we don't go to 3 and 4 WR sets because Kubes has no confidence in these guys. The only time I see Martin / Jean etc out on the field is to spell AJ and KW. On some level these guys are limiting our playcalling.
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Old 10-13-2012   #63
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

This Packers game sets up perfectly for a litmus test of sorts. Andre was rather embarrassed by Cromartie, if not in performance (haven't seen the film) at least in production.
Combine that with a (potentially) high scoring team coming in against a D that just lost Cush. I've kept myself positive by saying AJ hasn't been getting the numbers because we haven't needed him to. Now I think we need him to. If the offense is struggling, the D is getting lit up and Andre doesn't come to the rescue, we can probably call it the end of an era (not a career, calm down).

But I really think he's showing up Sunday night.
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Old 10-13-2012   #64
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
This Packers game sets up perfectly for a litmus test of sorts. Andre was rather embarrassed by Cromartie, if not in performance (haven't seen the film) at least in production.
Combine that with a (potentially) high scoring team coming in against a D that just lost Cush. I've kept myself positive by saying AJ hasn't been getting the numbers because we haven't needed him to. Now I think we need him to. If the offense is struggling, the D is getting lit up and Andre doesn't come to the rescue, we can probably call it the end of an era (not a career, calm down).

But I really think he's showing up Sunday night.
David, read my post here:

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
OK, let's do a quick comparison here.

This year, so far, we have been targeting AJ on the average 6 times per game.
He caught 17 balls for 283 yards and 2 TDs in 5 games.

In 2010, in 13 games, AJ was target an average of nearly 11 times per game.
He caught 86 balls for 1,226 yards and 8 TDs

Similarly, in 2009, in 16 games, AJ was targeted nearly 11 time per game.
He caught 101 balls for 1,569 yards and 9 TDs.

From basic math, if AJ is being targeted as much as he did in 2009, he would end up having a better year than 2009.

Is it because that AJ can't no longer get open that we don't throw the ball to him as much? No. I rewatched the Jets game (with the all-22 and end-zone views) and this is what happened:

- On the first four pass attemptes by Schaub, AJ was double-teamed on all four.

- On the fifth pass - the TD to OD - AJ was also wide open underneath on a speed out route (that requires a hard jab step to the inside before cutting to the outside); AJ's cut was sharp and he could have gained at least 10 yards. But since O.D. was so side open deep, Schaub went to him for the TD.

- On the sixth pass, Cromartie did a good job not biting on AJ's double move; Schaub threw the ball away.

- On the seventh pass, AJ was ahead of the receiver on a shallow crossing route, but Schaub went to Foster because there was a LB in the middle of the field at the time AJ crossed the middle of the field.

- On the eight pass, Schaub threw an INT when he tried to fit the ball into double coverage. This is the exact post route that AJ had ran a couple of times earlier and the coverage was exactly the same (double-team.)

- On the ninth pass, AJ was open with a stop and go move as the CB gave him plenty of cushion; Schaub already went to Casey underneath for 5 yards.

- He was not on the field for the next pass.

- On the eleventh pass, AJ was triple-teamed on a similar post route. Schaub went to Casey for 7.

- On the twelfth pass, AJ was wide open on a deep in route, but Schaub had already decided to go quickly to Foster underneath for a 17-yd catch and run.
His sharp cut on this route cannot be denied. He got a ton of seperation from the DB. He left Cromartie in the dirt just as OD did on the TD pass. This one could have gone for at least twenty yards.

....

And so on and so on... You get the drift.
There was one time AJ was open in the end-zone, but Schaub saw the safety getting ready to cut him off, so he went to the left side (and ended up throwing the ball away.)

On that particular play, a quick throw to AJ would have gotten the job done; however, we can't ask Schaub to be perfect.
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Old 10-13-2012   #65
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I noticed on Schaubs int that AJ was running an out and up or 10 route. He rounded off the out part of the route so Cromartie didn't bite and was waiting on Schaub to throw the deep ball. AJ used to be able to go up and make plays even if he was covered. Not so much anymore.

I dont know why AJ is rounding his routes. It could be that his Hamstring/Groin/Knee/ankle injuries have caught up to him. Or it could've been that AJ just had a bad game.

But there's little doubt Gary has changed the way he's using AJ. Gary may be nursing AJ through the season so that he will be healthy for the playoffs. (Hopefully this is the case.)
I'll have to go back and take a look at that. I thought he was running a 12 or a 6.

Other than that, I agree with your post. I think something's wrong with AJ and I'm not sure what. And it's eating away at his confidence.

I think Schaub forces the ball to Andre because he trusts Andre and wants to get him involved. And you never know when Andre's going to make an incredible play on a ball.

I think Gary's using him differently than in the past because of whatever issue he's dealing with.
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Old 10-13-2012   #66
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by rolyat93 View Post
It's not the same situation. He let Meco go because we already had Brian Cushing playing at an elite level. Who's gonna fill in for AJ? Keyshawn Martin?
Rick Smith could have care less who filled in for Demeco. He let him go because he thought (rightly or wrongly) his salary didn't match his skills.

And if he lets AJ go, it will be for exactly the same reason. That's what general managers do.
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Old 10-13-2012   #67
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'll have to go back and take a look at that. I thought he was running a 12 or a 6.

Other than that, I agree with your post. I think something's wrong with AJ and I'm not sure what. And it's eating away at his confidence.

I think Schaub forces the ball to Andre because he trusts Andre and wants to get him involved. And you never know when Andre's going to make an incredible play on a ball.

I think Gary's using him differently than in the past because of whatever issue he's dealing with.
It was a post route all the way.

I don't see anything wrong with AJ.

He has always been hard on himself.

If you catch an interview on HT.com, AJ talked about always wanting to go out there and be perfect. There was also an interview that I saw on the local news where he said the same thing.
But he has never been perfect. He dropped some balls every year.

He might be pressing a little bit and ended up dropping a few balls already this year. That's more than what normally happened with him (based on the number of balls thrown his way.)
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Old 10-13-2012   #68
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
David, read my post here:



There was one time AJ was open in the end-zone, but Schaub saw the safety getting ready to cut him off, so he went to the left side (and ended up throwing the ball away.)

On that particular play, a quick throw to AJ would have gotten the job done; however, we can't ask Schaub to be perfect.
Very well broken down. The interception (which was a bad read and a bad throw from Matt, behind AJ when Cromartie was trailing underneath the throw) definitely made us go more conservative in the passing game. Against the Jets, that made sense, their one offensive TD came following the great field position that pick gave them.
After that, it was a matter of not letting their defense beat us when their offense couldn't. It will be very interesting to see how we do against the Packers and Ravens in this regard.

Even if it's just as a possession receiver with the occasional double move, AJ can still be a force in this league. Just ask Miami.
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Old 10-13-2012   #69
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by DaTruthExplodes View Post
andre has been done as a elite receiver 2 years ago.

He's been skating by on reputation alone the past couple years.
Horse pucky. In 2010 AJ led the league in yards per game.

In 2011 he played the 1st 3 games with Schaub. In those he was on pace to 116 rec. for 1685 yds. In the playoffs he was - 13 rec. for 201 yds.
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Old 10-13-2012   #70
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

Either Andre Johnson's sore/injured groin is hobbling him, or he has lost explosion for other reasons (hamstring tear and subsequent surgery, for example)...

Regardless of what the stats may or may not show, any honest view of AJ's movement this season will see he is physically quite limited. Hopefully, it is a current injury that he can recover from. Or, he will be able to rehab or strengthen whatever the lingering issues are and eventually regain most of his explosiveness. Either way, we are good. No need to lie to ourselves. He isn't right but we are 5-0 despite that.
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Old 10-13-2012   #71
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Your argument fails on the basis that teams also put safety help over Calvin Johnson and he is #1 on your chart along with many other of the WRs on that list.
This game rewind thing is pretty good.
It has a list of all the plays that you can scroll through to pick the one you want to watch.

I watched the Lions/Vikings game, and here are some of the things I observed:

The safety broke up 3 deep passes to CJ.
The safety turned the wrong way and wasn't able to help the CB on one play (he was expecting Stafford to go to a different receiver.)
CJ ran into the zone between two safeties on one play.
Basically, if the safety(ies) play(s) it correctly, the double-team stop CJ from making plays every time.
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Old 10-13-2012   #72
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

This is coming from the guy that call our QB Matt Shwab
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Old 10-13-2012   #73
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Either Andre Johnson's sore/injured groin is hobbling him, or he has lost explosion for other reasons (hamstring tear and subsequent surgery, for example)...

Regardless of what the stats may or may not show, any honest view of AJ's movement this season will see he is physically quite limited. Hopefully, it is a current injury that he can recover from. Or, he will be able to rehab or strengthen whatever the lingering issues are and eventually regain most of his explosiveness. Either way, we are good. No need to lie to ourselves. He isn't right but we are 5-0 despite that.
There's no need to lie just like I didn't need to in the KW's thread.

There's nothing majorly wrong with AJ; we just haven't been targeting him as much as before, that's all.
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Old 10-13-2012   #74
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
There's no need to lie just like I didn't need to in the KW's thread.

There's nothing majorly wrong with AJ; we just haven't been targeting him as much as before, that's all.
"Lie"? (I'm suggesting that watching AJ without bias makes it clear he is not right. I was not suggesting anything else. As fans, we all struggle to not allow our biases to color what we are seeing)

Whether there is something majorly wrong or not, I do not know. What I do know is that he has not been able to accelerate and separate from defenders this season as he has in the past. I am not basing that on his targets. I am basing that on watching him run his routes... I don't doubt that we are targeting him less for reasons beyond his lack of explosiveness. If you watch him running in the Jets game without efforting to win an argument, you will clearly see that he is hobbled. Other games this year, it has clearly been the case as well. It has been noticeable a few times this year. Again, hopefully, it is the groin issue and nothing more.
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Old 10-13-2012   #75
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
"Lie"? (I'm suggesting that watching AJ without bias makes it clear he is not right. I was not suggesting anything else. As fans, we all struggle to not allow our biases to color what we are seeing)

Whether there is something majorly wrong or not, I do not know. What I do know is that he has not been able to accelerate and separate from defenders this season as he has in the past. I am not basing that on his targets. I am basing that on watching him run his routes... I don't doubt that we are targeting him less for reasons beyond his lack of explosiveness. If you watch him running in the Jets game without efforting to win an argument, you will clearly see that he is hobbled. Other games this year, it has clearly been the case as well. It has been noticeable a few times this year. Again, hopefully, it is the groin issue and nothing more.
Rewatch the TD against the Broncos.
The CB Tracy Porter never caugh up with AJ.
Look at the distance between them when AJ caught the ball all the way to when AJ reach the end zone.

This guy (Porter) ran a 4.37 at the combine in 2008.

Also read my break-down post for the Jets game up in this thread.
AJ made a couple of very sharp breaks (once on a speed out and another on a deep square in) and got good seperation both times.
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Old 10-13-2012   #76
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Rewatch the TD against the Broncos.
The CB Tracy Porter never caugh up with AJ.
Look at the distance between them when AJ caught the ball all the way to when AJ reach the end zone.

This guy (Porter) ran a 4.37 at the combine in 2008.

Also read my break-down post for the Jets game up in this thread.
AJ made a couple of very sharp breaks (once on a speed out and another on a deep square in) and got good seperation both times.
I've gone both ways on this. I don't think it's an every play thing. For instance, on OD's TD catch and run against the Titans, they showed a zoomed out replay and AJ was on the other side of the field. He smoked his corner on fly route and had an easy TD, but Schaub checked down earlier.
In the same game, his two big plays, I though he looked a little slow. I remember being surprised at how sluggish the whole play looked, even though it was a big gain.

He's not at 100%, I think it's safe to assume. But he's also not crippled or useless. He's a couple breaks away from having about 4 or 5 TDs and bunch more yards and everyone talking about how he's back to the old AJ.

For the record, those breaks being (long catch against Dolphins that went out of bounds at the 4, two sort-of-drops against the Broncos that would have been big yards and touchdowns, and 2 drops against the Jets that could have been big plays). He just needs to get his hands and his confidence back in order.
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Old 10-13-2012   #77
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

I think a ton of you sound like a bunch of complete fickle fans in this thread. I'd usually expect this kind of stuff out of non Texans fans who don't watch the Texans that often, but this "AJ is no more" stuff is ridiculous and laughable honestly.

Did you guys not watch the first two games of the season and also the pre season? There has been nothing wrong with AJ at all. I've noticed no difference at all. We've had a very conservative offense especially in the 2nd halves and they haven't gone to AJ nearly enough. To suggest that AJ somehow lost it after one off season is just silly. He isn't 36 years old or anything. We're a run oriented team big time, and we don't have hardly any other receiving threats outside of AJ other then Owen Daniels. In pre season AJ looked like the same beast he has always been. He did in the first game as well after the first half even when a pretty good CB was covering him.

If Kubiak wasn't so conservative and wasn't so afraid of losing leads where he just wants to run, run, run, we'd probably see a lot more of AJ. I'm not going to be bothered to much about it as of now, because we're 5-0. However I've said all season long that our offense is not near as good as people think it is this season. We can run the ball well, but the play calling hasn't been the type of play calling from a dynamic step on your throat type of play calling to do that. AJ not getting the ball as much right now also might be a good thing to some degree, because he isn't taking near as many hits as usual. Hopefully he'll be a lot more healthy by playoffs time when we'll need him the most.
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Old 10-13-2012   #78
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

From NFL.com.

Quote:
At 31, it's fair to speculate leg injuries have robbed Johnson of the explosiveness that made him a star. That said, a decline in production doesn't necessarily signal an erosion of talent.

Johnson now finds himself in an offense that prays at the altar of the run game. Arian Foster is on pace to set an NFL record for rushes in a season. That type of dedication doesn't leave a ton of opportunity for monster receiving numbers.

NFL.com and NFL Network's Ian Rapoport -- in Houston for the Texans' Week 6 matchup against the Green Bay Packers -- asked Johnson about his slow start. Johnson explained that he was shut down by the Jets because cornerback Antonio Cromartie was allowed to play under him with help over the top.

According to Rapoport, Johnson seemed resigned to that technique working.
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Old 10-13-2012   #79
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
According to Rapoport, Johnson seemed resigned to that technique working.
It opens up other options, but I still think we'll see Matt throw into double coverage on AJ sometimes and let him go up & get it. Up to now, we haven't needed to force it into him.
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Old 10-13-2012   #80
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Default Re: Andre Johnson

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Originally Posted by DaTruthExplodes View Post
andre has been done as a elite receiver 2 years ago.

He's been skating by on reputation alone the past couple years.
Wow. Two years ago?? You bash Schaub and now AJ?


I'm starting to wonder if you're really a fan of this team, and I've never said that to another member. I know you're new, so I'll hold off, but suggesting that AJ has been done as an elite guy for two years is something that only someone would say who barely follows the Texans. AJ looked awsome last season when he was healthy and the season before he looked damn good and played hurt the majority of the season.
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