Andre Johnson

[Thorn]

AJ has been rather luke warm this season so far, even still he's better than most recievers in the league and I'm still happy as hell he's a Texan.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Alright Doc, I'm sure there is credence to your diagnosis but I don't think that's why they aren't throwing to Andre as in years past. I think it's as simple as this:

The "engine" that powers the 2012 edition of the Texans' offense is the running game, not the passing game as in years past. Back in 2009 & 2010 when Schaub kinda HAD to pass he averaged 298 & 273 yds/game, respectively. This year he's averaging 231 yds/game. And Schaub's QB rating is still up around 99-100 so it's not like he sucks.

Given that Foster, so far, is averaging over 100 yds/game plus whatever Tate gets to chip in (25-25 yds maybe) why pass?

I just think Kubiak has taken a lesson from Parcells: build a formidable running game and a strong defense. Let that running game grind down the opposing defense and pass just often enough to keep them from piling 8-9 guys in the box. Depend on your strong D to give you the ball back with 3-&-outs or turnovers and get back to work grinding the down with your running game.

I don't think there's much wrong with A.J. I think his numbers are down due to the success of Foster, Tate, and the O-line.

Thoughts?

I won't even try to argue that factors like our success with the running game and having other receiving options haven't potentially lent itself to Andre being left with less targets. However, the observation, at least to date, of his routes not being explosive and apparently significantly devoid of his signature sharp-cutting ins and outs, hitches and hooks, is none-the-less valid. These characteristic patterns in the past, allowed Andre to be "money," especially on 3rd and necessary yardage. There were times this season that the Texans needed those same important 3rd downs converted with minimal risk of turnover and seemed to shy away from what was once believed to be almost a "sure thing." The season is still young, and I have no problem if you wish to consider my observational comments "young" as well.

[robroy72]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Problem solved; route 9 it is!

[SheTexan]

Originally Posted by Marcus

If you don't think Rick Smith has the stones to make AJ the next salary cap casualty, you must not remember what he did with Demeco Ryans.

BINGO!!

That means our team has gotta do everything in their power to make it to the top this year, if they want AJ to be there with them!! Yes, AJ needs to do his part, and I believe he will, but, his time is running out. RS will see to that. He has no loyalty when it comes to the heart and soul of our team. It's all BUSINESS to him. BUT, I guess that's his job.

As for the topic of the thread, AJ has been nothing but a CLASS act for this organization. I truly believe that WHEN the day comes that AJ believes he can no longer be a productive member of our team, he willl be the first to say so. Until then, I will continue to have faith that for this year, the best is yet to come. Kubiak, Wade, and Dennision have a plan that has been set in motion. NOW, we just gotta believe they can follow through. IMHO, they're not stressing out over AJ this early in the season. Save him for the big games, which start with the Ravens! JMO!!

[rush2112mn]

I dont know if it has anything to do with the injuries he had over the past few years. He says that he is healthy. I heard recently he was having slight groin issue.
Look, Andre is not getting any younger. He is not the Andre we had back a few years ago.
I still think he has some good years left in him.
I think having Jean back is going to open things up for Andre. Andre likes to run the slant routes and would rather have someone else run the post routes.

Also, the Texans have such a diverse way they can attack you.....with Foster and Tate running the ball for over 50 percent of the plays
That leaves less throws to go around.
Daniels has really blown back up this year. He is playing at a probowl level I think. This is leading to less throws to Andre.
Andre is also usually taking 2 defensive players with him still I think.
So someone is going to be open or single coverage.

I know Andre can still make the big play when he is called upon.....
I hope he breaks the 10,000 yard mark Sunday......

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by rush2112mn

I hope he breads the 10,000 yard mark Sunday.

Does this mean he butters both sides of his bread?

[PapaL]

Originally Posted by Blake

What does that have to do with the price of watermelon in Africa?

Great insightful post.

You are the company you keep. He use to be up there with the Megatron and Fitz. Now, due to injuries age whatever, look who he is with. He's made plays 1/5 weeks. I love him as much as anyone else here but something is up.

I'm not so inclined to blame the offense. It's the same offense he's been in since Kubiak got here; now the weapons have improved. To me that means he's not always going to have a S over top because they do have to respect the run and the TE/FB catching passes.

[Playoffs]

Teams are putting a safety over the top on Andre... that's why you see this:

RK PLAYER .................. REC TAR YDS AVG TD
10 Calvin Johnson, WR ... 29 . 43 . 423 14.6 1
11 Percy Harvin, WR ...... 38 . 48 . 407 10.7 1
12 Dwayne Bowe, WR .... 31 . 57 . 402 13.0 3

17 Torrey Smith, WR ..... 19 . 32 . 370 19.5 3

23 Larry Fitzgerald, WR .. 30 . 53 . 337 11.2 2

28 Julio Jones, WR ......... 26 . 46 . 313 12.0 4
29 Owen Daniels, TE ...... 23 . 33 . 311 13.5 3

42 Andre Johnson, WR .... 17 . 31 . 283 16.6 2

When your TE compares favorably to most of the big WR names of the year, it tells you 1) defenses are committed to taking away AJ and 2) AJ may be less able to beat double teams.

Let's see how the rest of the year shakes out before we put Andre in mothballs.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

I won't even try to argue that factors like our success with the running game and having other receiving options haven't potentially lent itself to Andre being left with less targets. However, the observation, at least to date, of his routes not being explosive and apparently significantly devoid of his signature sharp-cutting ins and outs, hitches and hooks, is none-the-less valid. These characteristic patterns in the past, allowed Andre to be "money," especially on 3rd and necessary yardage. There were times this season that the Texans needed those same important 3rd downs converted with minimal risk of turnover and seemed to shy away from what was once believed to be almost a "sure thing." The season is still young, and I have no problem if you wish to consider my observational comments "young" as well.

I noticed on Schaubs int that AJ was running an out and up or 10 route. He rounded off the out part of the route so Cromartie didn't bite and was waiting on Schaub to throw the deep ball. AJ used to be able to go up and make plays even if he was covered. Not so much anymore.

I dont know why AJ is rounding his routes. It could be that his Hamstring/Groin/Knee/ankle injuries have caught up to him. Or it could've been that AJ just had a bad game.

But there's little doubt Gary has changed the way he's using AJ. Gary may be nursing AJ through the season so that he will be healthy for the playoffs. (Hopefully this is the case.)

[76Texan]

OK, let's do a quick comparison here.

This year, so far, we have been targeting AJ on the average 6 times per game.
He caught 17 balls for 283 yards and 2 TDs in 5 games.

In 2010, in 13 games, AJ was target an average of nearly 11 times per game.
He caught 86 balls for 1,226 yards and 8 TDs

Similarly, in 2009, in 16 games, AJ was targeted nearly 11 time per game.
He caught 101 balls for 1,569 yards and 9 TDs.

From basic math, if AJ is being targeted as much as he did in 2009, he would end up having a better year than 2009.

Is it because that AJ can't no longer get open that we don't throw the ball to him as much? No. I rewatched the Jets game (with the all-22 and end-zone views) and this is what happened:

- On the first four pass attemptes by Schaub, AJ was double-teamed on all four.

- On the fifth pass - the TD to OD - AJ was also wide open underneath on a speed out route (that requires a hard jab step to the inside before cutting to the outside); AJ's cut was sharp and he could have gained at least 10 yards. But since O.D. was so side open deep, Schaub went to him for the TD.

- On the sixth pass, Cromartie did a good job not biting on AJ's double move; Schaub threw the ball away.

- On the seventh pass, AJ was ahead of the receiver on a shallow crossing route, but Schaub went to Foster because there was a LB in the middle of the field at the time AJ crossed the middle of the field.

- On the eight pass, Schaub threw an INT when he tried to fit the ball into double coverage. This is the exact post route that AJ had ran a couple of times earlier and the coverage was exactly the same (double-team.)

- On the ninth pass, AJ was open with a stop and go move as the CB gave him plenty of cushion; Schaub already went to Casey underneath for 5 yards.

- He was not on the field for the next pass.

- On the eleventh pass, AJ was triple-teamed on a similar post route. Schaub went to Casey for 7.

- On the twelfth pass, AJ was wide open on a deep in route, but Schaub had already decided to go quickly to Foster underneath for a 17-yd catch and run.
His sharp cut on this route cannot be denied. He got a ton of seperation from the DB. He left Cromartie in the dirt just as OD did on the TD pass. This one could have gone for at least twenty yards.

....

And so on and so on... You get the drift.

[DaTruthExplodes]

andre has been done as a elite receiver 2 years ago.

He's been skating by on reputation alone the past couple years.

[PapaL]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

OK, let's do a quick comparison here.

This year, so far, we have been targeting AJ on the average 6 times per game.
He caught 17 balls for 283 yards and 2 TDs in 5 games.

In 2010, in 13 games, AJ was target an average of nearly 11 times per game.
He caught 86 balls for 1,226 yards and 8 TDs

Similarly, in 2009, in 16 games, AJ was targeted nearly 11 time per game.
He caught 101 balls for 1,569 yards and 9 TDs.

From basic math, if AJ is being targeted as much as he did in 2009, he would end up having a better year than 2009.

Is it because that AJ can't no longer get open that we don't throw the ball to him as much? No. I rewatched the Jets game (with the all-22 and end-zone views) and this is what happened:

- On the first four pass attemptes by Schaub, AJ was double-teamed on all four.

- On the fifth pass - the TD to OD - AJ was also wide open underneath on a speed out route (that requires a hard jab step to the inside before cutting to the outside); AJ's cut was sharp and he could have gained at least 10 yards. But since O.D. was so side open deep, Schaub went to him for the TD.

- On the sixth pass, Cromartie did a good job not biting on AJ's double move; Schaub threw the ball away.

- On the seventh pass, AJ was ahead of the receiver on a shallow crossing route, but Schaub went to Foster because there was a LB in the middle of the field at the time AJ crossed the middle of the field.

- On the eight pass, Schaub threw an INT when he tried to fit the ball into double coverage. This is the exact post route that AJ had ran a couple of times earlier and the coverage was exactly the same (double-team.)

- On the ninth pass, AJ was open with a stop and go move as the CB gave him plenty of cushion; Schaub already went to Casey underneath for 5 yards.

- He was not on the field for the next pass.

- On the eleventh pass, AJ was triple-teamed on a similar post route. Schaub went to Casey for 7.

- On the twelfth pass, AJ was wide open on a deep in route, but Schaub had already decided to go quickly to Foster underneath for a 17-yd catch and run.
His sharp cut on this route cannot be denied. He got a ton of seperation from the DB. He left Cromartie in the dirt just as OD did on the TD pass. This one could have gone for at least twenty yards.

....

And so on and so on... You get the drift.

Great write up, seriously.

Rolling coverages and double triple teaming him isn't anything new. He's dealt w this when he was our only weapon and HWSNBN was the QB yet he still made plays. Maybe before Schaub would force more balls and AJ had to make a play - but not Schaub see's someone else wide open; I don't know. All I know is that when AJ is barreling through the secondary and dragging DBs w him we are damn near unstoppable. I want THAT guy back.

[run-david-run]

Originally Posted by DaTruthExplodes

andre has been done as a elite receiver 2 years ago.

He's been skating by on reputation alone the past couple years.

And Kareem Jackson is the worst starting CB in the league....

[HJam72]

We all have to deal with the inevitable fact that we are getting older. AJ will have to do this as well, whether now or later. It wouldn't bother me at all if we had our next great receiver in a few years and AJ was the best #2 receiver in the game for a while.

I think CnD is right and I just hope that it will heal eventually, but he won't be the GOAT forever.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by DaTruthExplodes

andre has been done as a elite receiver 2 years ago.

He's been skating by on reputation alone the past couple years.

You mean in 2010 when he caught 1300 receiving yards on one leg? Ok then.

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

Teams are putting a safety over the top on Andre... that's why you see this:



When your TE compares favorably to most of the big WR names of the year, it tells you 1) defenses are committed to taking away AJ and 2) AJ may be less able to beat double teams.

Let's see how the rest of the year shakes out before we put Andre in mothballs.

Your argument fails on the basis that teams also put safety help over Calvin Johnson and he is #1 on your chart along with many other of the WRs on that list.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by PapaL

Great write up, seriously.

Rolling coverages and double triple teaming him isn't anything new. He's dealt w this when he was our only weapon and HWSNBN was the QB yet he still made plays. Maybe before Schaub would force more balls and AJ had to make a play - but not Schaub see's someone else wide open; I don't know. All I know is that when AJ is barreling through the secondary and dragging DBs w him we are damn near unstoppable. I want THAT guy back.

Well, we all saw what happened when Schaub tried to force that ball into double coverage in the Jets game.

For the most part, however, I think Matt had done a great job to find the open man rather than forcing the ball like before.

There were too many times that AJ had to win those balls in the past.
I think we don't have to do that now with a more mature Schaub.
Look at his QB rating; Schaub can find an open man most of the time.

I'd rather him go for the safe throws unless we really need him to.
So far we don't have to risk that, and it's great news!

BTW, no team has been able to stop us yet; knock on wood.
We made it hard for ourselves here and there; otherwise, it would have been a blow-out in each and every single game we've played so far.

[hradhak]

I'd agree that AJ is probably not the best he has been. Still, even at his best AJ has never been a player that beats you every game. He's had games with huge numbers and catches and others with little.

What bothers me more at this point is that we are getting no production from our trio of #3 receivers. Martin, Jean, and Posey have done nothing to inspire confidence. Their lack of production pretty much puts it all on the TEs, AJ, and KW

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by hradhak

I'd agree that AJ is probably not the best he has been. Still, even at his best AJ has never been a player that beats you every game. He's had games with huge numbers and catches and others with little.

What bothers me more at this point is that we are getting no production from our trio of #3 receivers. Martin, Jean, and Posey have done nothing to inspire confidence. Their lack of production pretty much puts it all on the TEs, AJ, and KW

That raises a question of how often we are in 3 or 4 WR sets, how much Schaub is targetting them, are they getting seperation etc.

There are so many factors to consider when talking about WR production.

Not to mention the fact we do like to run the ball a whole lot.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan

Your argument fails on the basis that teams also put safety help over Calvin Johnson and he is #1 on your chart along with many other of the WRs on that list.

I'll go watch me some Lions game to see what happens there.

For now, I remember when Orvlosky was with the Lions, he forced a lot of balls to CJ. (I remember watching those games when we first signed Orvlosky to see how he performs.)

Sometimes CJ made plays, and sometimes the defenders made plays.