Some encouraging news on Brooks!

[badboy]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

To me he has done OK. The only guys that graded better than him, for me, are Myers and Brown. It's kinda somewhat close to call among Wade Smith, Newton, and Caldwell (considering we can't be sure what they are supposed to do on every snaps).

Jones is still raw and therefore inconsistent.
Harris doesn't have enough snaps to be evaluated fairly.

And what do you mean by both rookies having to play well for us not to draft RG/RT?

Who is the rookie at RT?

Although by CBA Newton is a vet second year guy, he has only 17 snaps on Oline 2011. I think most fans believe Jones is outplaying Caldwell this year.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Wade Smith has not practiced in the past 2 days. He had his knee drained yesterday.

very helpful info doc and supports the rumors last season.

[Premier]

Originally Posted by badboy

I think

stop thinking...

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Premier

stop thinking...

Comes across as an insult Premier. Say what you mean and do not be so vague.

[SAMURAITEXAN]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Wade Smith has not practiced in the past 2 days. He had his knee drained yesterday.

Doc, how long it takes to recover fully from knee drain? A day or two?

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by SAMURAITEXAN

Doc, how long it takes to recover fully from knee drain? A day or two?

It's not the recovery from a knee drain that you primarily worry about. That can be 48 to 72 hours, if it doesn't recur. What you really have to be concerned about is what is the CAUSE of the knee effusion (fluid). The most common causes would be a meniscus tear or a knee ligament sprain. And, of course the third would be arthritis. A knee ligament sprain probably carries the best immediate prognosis, but needs rest. A meniscus tear depending on type and severity can sometimes be conservatively treated with rest and rehab, but eventually requires surgery. If the fluid re-accumulates following drainage, you know that the offending anatomic problem has not been healed (sprain) or overcome (meniscus). And arthritis will be progressive. They should have an idea by now what the source of the fluid is. They will watch his progress as far as if the fluid rebuilds and if other signs and symptoms appear or resolve to determine the approach to allowing him to play. Of course, they could choose to ignore the body messages and try to see if he can physically play through the problem. That approach may stop gap, but it seldom ultimately leads to the long-term good of the player or the team.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by badboy

Although by CBA Newton is a vet second year guy, he has only 17 snaps on Oline 2011. I think most fans believe Jones is outplaying Caldwell this year.

OK, so let's give you the part about two rookies.

...
I don't know how you know it, the part about Jones outplaying Caldwell as a general thought of "most fans". Are you Obama? J/K

At any rate, in my eyes, Jones has not done that.
He has not outplayed Caldwell.
I always believe that the best man should win the job.
And right now, Caldwell is the better man.

[SAMURAITEXAN]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

It's not the recovery from a knee drain that you primarily worry about. That can be 48 to 72 hours, if it doesn't recur. What you really have to be concerned about is what is the CAUSE of the knee effusion (fluid). The most common causes would be a meniscus tear or a knee ligament sprain. And, of course the third would be arthritis. A knee ligament sprain probably carries the best immediate prognosis, but needs rest. A meniscus tear depending on type and severity can sometimes be conservatively treated with rest and rehab, but eventually requires surgery. If the fluid re-accumulates following drainage, you know that the offending anatomic problem has not been healed (sprain) or overcome (meniscus). And arthritis will be progressive. They should have an idea by now what the source of the fluid is. They will watch his progress as far as if the fluid rebuilds and if other signs and symptoms appear or resolve to determine the approach to allowing him to play. Of course, they could choose to ignore the body messages and try to see if he can physically play through the problem. That approach may stop gap, but it seldom ultimately leads to the long-term good of the player or the team.

Thank you for info as always Doc. You would think its more of lighter side of injury and hearing from Doc really make you think twice about injury. Again, thank you.

Go Texans!!!

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

OK, so let's give you the part about two rookies.

...
I don't know how you know it, the part about Jones outplaying Caldwell as a general thought of "most fans". Are you Obama? J/K

At any rate, in my eyes, Jones has not done that.
He has not outplayed Caldwell.
I always believe that the best man should win the job.
And right now, Caldwell is the better man.

Right now Caldwell is going to be out for awhile. So right now Jones is the better option. Caldwell has chronic ankle problems. IMHO (Doc could speak better about this) So it would be foolish to count on Caldwell to be your starting RG.

Caldwell and Jones have played about the same so far this yr. IMHO Jones has a much better upside and should be the much better RG by the end of the season.

Jones is a smart tough player. He is the future of the Texans interior OL. Caldwell not so much, BTW Brooks is a stud that just needs to learn what it takes to be a professional football player. The reason Brooks has been inactive is the Texans have only been playing 7 guys on gameday. Jones is the OG/C backup and Harris OT backup.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

OK, so let's give you the part about two rookies.

...
I don't know how you know it, the part about Jones outplaying Caldwell as a general thought of "most fans". Are you Obama? J/K

At any rate, in my eyes, Jones has not done that.
He has not outplayed Caldwell.
I always believe that the best man should win the job.
And right now, Caldwell is the better man.

My comment on most fans should be qualified as most fans I have contact with or read about or hear about. My take on comments posted in this forum by fans is most think Jones is better than Caldwell. I know fans in my social sphere think Jones is playing better.

You have your opinion on RG and I have mine.

Sir, never confuse me with Obama in any manner! lol

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Right now Caldwell is going to be out for awhile. So right now Jones is the better option. Caldwell has chronic ankle problems. IMHO (Doc could speak better about this) So it would be foolish to count on Caldwell to be your starting RG.

Caldwell and Jones have played about the same so far this yr. IMHO Jones has a much better upside and should be the much better RG by the end of the season.

Jones is a smart tough player. He is the future of the Texans interior OL. Caldwell not so much, BTW Brooks is a stud that just needs to learn what it takes to be a professional football player. The reason Brooks has been inactive is the Texans have only been playing 7 guys on gameday. Jones is the OG/C backup and Harris OT backup.

Texans coach Gary Kubiak addressed the media on Saturday following the team's final practice in preparation for the New York Jets on Monday Night Football.
Head Coach Gary Kubiak
(opening statement) “Practice-wise, (RB Ben) Tate did practice. (RG Antoine) Caldwell did practice. I would rule out (WR) Lestar Jean and (FS Quintin) Demps as of today, but Caldwell is definitely ready to go. I’ll go back and look at Tate. I expect him to go but I am very comfortable with (RB) Justin (Forsett) and the practices he’s had if he’s our two in the game. He will do a good job for us. We’ll see.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...4-30561400f0cd

I've already said many times that I like Ben Jones better as a prospect out of college.
However, as of right now, I still see Caldwell as the better player on the field, despite playing with some kind of injury to his knee and ankle.
He was already listed with an ankle injury before the Jaguars game.
Kubiak liked him enough to make him the starter.

I'm not a team doctor, so I can't comment on his injuries, whether they will be recurring or not. I won't label him injury-prone just like I didn't label Schaub as such some years back.

All I can comment on is his plays.
We have been moving the ball better with Caldwell than with Jones.
Take the number of subpar plays divided by the total number of snaps a player took and one can see that Caldwell's ratio is better.

Or you can go back and find one of Kubiak's presser; you will find that Kubiak did note that Jones played "like a young guy, like a rookie."
That pretty much sums it up.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by badboy

My comment on most fans should be qualified as most fans I have contact with or read about or hear about. My take on comments posted in this forum by fans is most think Jones is better than Caldwell. I know fans in my social sphere think Jones is playing better.

You have your opinion on RG and I have mine.

Sir, never confuse me with Obama in any manner! lol

Well, if Jones is playing like a rookie, the way Kubiak put it, and Caldwell is playing not as well (at the same time that Newton also his bumps) I don't see how we can move the ball and score the way we've been doing.

And I'm sorry I didn't know that you look prettier than Obama!

[Playoffs]

ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

Thanks for stats. BTW, love the way you color coded to try to make those dang offset cut and paste stats more readable.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

I find it's hard to justify Ben Jones grades.

His overall grade is -2.8.
Based on Football Outsiders, his snap counts were as followed:
- 38 offensive snaps in week 2
- 29 in week 3
- 47 in week 4

Now, in week 4, PFF gave him a grade of -5.4 (on 47 snaps).

"Making life as easy as they could for quarterback Matt Schaub (+2.8), the Texans’ offensive line was nearly flawless in pass protection. Only right guard Ben Jones (-5.4) finished the game with a negative grade and he was also the only Houston lineman to allow any pressure (one hit and two hurries)."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...texans-week-4/

That means he has to grade out at 8.2 in week 2 and 3 (on 67 snaps) to bring his score up to -2.8

That means he would have stood out such that PFF would have named him in a very positive ways in those two weeks, but they didn't.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...aguars-week-2/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...roncos-week-3/

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

Note that the majority (2/3) of Caldwell's grade (-2.6) was in the first game, against the Dolphins.
Their strength were in the two interior guys.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...texans-week-1/

If Jones had played in this game, it's pretty much a given that he wouldn't have received a good grade.

Secondly, the Texans "protected" Jones quite a bit, especially in his first two appearances.
In the passing game, he received plenty of help.
In the running game, the combo block tend to stay with him a little longer.
On other occasions, he was asked to go to the second level or to cut block (more than Caldwell.) These two tasks don't expose the O-lineman as much.

[GP]

Originally Posted by badboy

GP speaking about Brooks said he needed to get a nasty going on and let that be his inner self (which I happen to agree with). Nasty Nate said who would be afraid of an OG. GP was not talking about an untested rookie but a rookie with all the skills bringing out his toughness & wanting to dominate his opponent. At least that is how I interpreted GP. I guess if I'm wrong he will come in and set me straight.

I guess two opposite examples: JJ Watt and Kareem Jackson.

One guy started off immediately and hasn't done anything but climb since day 1.

The other guy, who was similarly gifted albeit in a different position on the field, has spent some time growing into himself and his abilities. Nobody doubted his talents. We questioned his ownership and application of those talents.

Brooks hasn't struck me as being ready. A lot of people talk about his size, his talent, etc. Yes, cannot disagree with that at all. Readiness? He's not there. Unless he somehow made a big leap in the past month. I saw him in the preseason, and liked some things and then would see him be late on an assignment on the next play. Inconsistency, looked a little unsure of himself, etc. Then the next play he's blocking straight ahead and driving two guys across from him like 10 yards into the secondary.

IF the guy gets it figured out? He could be the nastiest OL we've ever seen.

[hradhak]

It's interesting that our team now drafts 3rd round picks and they are bench players that struggle to get in. 3-4 years ago, those guys were starting from day 1. Granted we are a better team and have more depth, but still.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by hradhak

Granted we are a better team and have more depth, but still.

That is why 3rd rounders and even a 1st rounder are not getting on the field. I will not be surprised next year when our 5th rounders and later guys don't even make the opening day roster. The 4th rounders will be hard pressed to make this team.

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by painekiller

That is why 3rd rounders and even a 1st rounder are not getting on the field. I will not be surprised next year when our 5th rounders and later guys don't even make the opening day roster. The 4th rounders will be hard pressed to make this team.

Well, this year's first rounder was a unique situation of BPA and at a need spot with MW departure. Merciless is still pretty raw compared to the two guys outside ahead of him and he's going to get worked into the rotation at some point more heavily this year.

For a team whose philosophy is centered around building through the draft I think we're always going to see guys up and down the draft making an impact and even starting here and there.

I do think right now it's going to serve us better in the long term to get Brooks and Jones reps because both are the future and present at guard.