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Old 11-11-2005   #121
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Originally Posted by DRAMA
Look, let's call a spade a spade. For whatever reason, WHATEVER reason, Carr is an average quarterback right now.
Average? I would love it if Carr were average. Average QB's don't sack themselves more than the kid at Randall's. He is about to break Strahan's single season sack record. Avg QB's have more yards than my lawnboy. Average QB's don't consistently make dumb plays, and can read coverages better than the 4th grade level. If only he was average. No, he has a long ways to go to be average. He was nearing average the first half of last year, and then the bottom dropped out.
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Old 11-11-2005   #122
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Upon further review it is all Carr's fault. If he would have ran down field and placed the ball in Corey "Don't throw it to stonehands" Bradford hands, then maybe, just maybe, he would have been able to hang on to the ball.

This is a bad team having a bad year. An average team that is having a good year will find ways of winning. Take the patriots, average offense, average defense, no running game, average recievers. But some one is always there to make a play, whether it is a clutch catch, throw, pick or fumble recovery.

What do we do, fumble the fumble recovery, drop the pick, miss the throw. No one is stepping up to make plays. Thats everyone. The defense, the offense, the recievers, the running backs, recievers, QB, o-line, d-line, linebackers, DB's, safteys, Head coach, assistant coach, assistant to the assistant coach, GM, owner, my mom, your mom, everybody's mom. No one is going to come out of this year smelling like roses.
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Old 11-11-2005   #123
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What needs to come out is ... why are things so simple and controlled for Carr ? Who dropped the ball on the OL ? Did Capers do a decent coaching job with OK players before or did Capers take good players and make them bad ?
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Old 11-11-2005   #124
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Originally Posted by Porky
...He was nearing average the first half of last year, and then the bottom dropped out.
In your opinion, why did the bottom drop out?
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Old 11-11-2005   #125
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Originally Posted by Lucky
In your opinion, why did the bottom drop out?
That's sort of the $20,000 question, isn't it? I don't know, but I suspect that teams just caught on to what his strengths were, and went to more cover 2, etc., which he has trouble reading. I wish I had a solid 100% answer. All you have to do is look at his stats from the 1st half, to the 2nd half of last year. The stats don't tell the whole story, but it's easy to see there was a dramatic difference.
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Old 11-11-2005   #126
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Thanks for rehashing some internet hack (aka someone just like MB members here who decided to have a web site) for me.

Now go back and read what I asked for--any specific examples from the last 4 games that anything the guy said is true in any way that adversely affected the game. Running out of bounds at the LOS simply doesn't hurt the team even if it becomes an unnecessary sack stat. For example, going from 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 5 against Cleveland is the same thing as throwing the ball away--loss of a down, same field position. So other than generalizations which may or may not be true, where are the examples.
One example? Against the Browns this year, 3rd and 10, he had 3 receivers running deep routes, all were under the secondary and well behind the LBs. All were open by NFL standards and an intentional "short" throw to any of them would have been a completion for a first down. He received mild pressure from his right side, the defensive end speed rushed Wade. All Carr had to do was step up into the pocket and look downfield to make the throw. Instead, he instantly takes off running to his left. The rest of the pass protection breaks down because they don't know where their QB is and in what direction to try to block their respective men. Carr runs out of bounds for a 7 yard gain. Translation, 1st down throw becomes a 7 yard gain leading to 4th down punt. Would the receiver have dropped the ball for an incompletion and hold up your theory? We'll never know because we have a QB without pocket presence.

Don't start up with the, "Our O-line sucks so bad he has to run on every play," stuff because that just supports the fact he is scared in the pocket. Whether he is rightly scared due to the pounding he took early in the season doesn't matter. You can't have someone without confidence in the pocket at the QB position. Over the last 3 or so games, rarely have you seen the entire pocket collapse on him. He gets speed rushed by the ends and rather than step-up away from the pressure into the pocket, he holds the ball behind him in the classic QB pose to get it swatted away. On both of the sacks on the last drive against the Jags, he fumbled the ball. Was it because he took a devastating blow or because he held the ball out to get swatted from him?

Last edited by mean mark8; 11-11-2005 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 11-11-2005   #127
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Originally Posted by Porky
That's sort of the $20,000 question, isn't it? I don't know, but I suspect that teams just caught on to what his strengths were, and went to more cover 2, etc., which he has trouble reading. I wish I had a solid 100% answer. All you have to do is look at his stats from the 1st half, to the 2nd half of last year. The stats don't tell the whole story, but it's easy to see there was a dramatic difference.
I'll start by saying "I don't know" also. The drop-off seemed to be across the board though. For instance last year Wade looked a lot better in the first half of the season than the last half. At the time I thought that was due to the lingering effects of his (ankle?) injury, but after seeing him this year it may have been something else.
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Old 11-11-2005   #128
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Originally Posted by mean mark8
One example? Against the Browns this year, 3rd and 9, he had 3 receivers running deep routes, all were under the secondary and well behind the LBs. All were open by NFL standards and an intentional "short" throw to any of them would have been a completion for a first down. He received mild pressure from his right side, the defensive end speed rushed Wade. All Carr had to do was step up into the pocket and look downfield to make the throw. Instead, he instantly takes off running to his left. The rest of the pass protection breaks down because they don't know where their QB is and in what direction to try to block their respective men. Carr runs out of bounds for about a 2 yard loss. Translation, 1st down throw becomes a 2 yard loss. Would the receiver have dropped the ball for an incompletion and hold up your theory? We'll never know because we have a QB without pocket presence.
There isn't a play that comes close to looking like what you just described in the Full Play by Play at NFL.com. Can you identify what you are talking about--even a guess of quarter anything else since you were able to see and remember everything all the WR's, OL and QB were doing? There is a 3rd and 10 where Carr gets 7 scrambling to the left. There is also a 2nd and 20 play (that the game film doesn't show the coverage on the WR's at all) where Carr could have stayed in the pocket longer but ended up running left for a 1 yd gain but would have had a bunch more if DD hadn't whiffed a block. That was the play immediately before the throw to Gaffney over the middle for a 1st down.
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Old 11-11-2005   #129
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
There isn't a play that comes close to looking like what you just described in the Full Play by Play at NFL.com. Can you identify what you are talking about--even a guess of quarter anything else since you were able to see and remember everything all the WR's, OL and QB were doing? There is a 3rd and 10 where Carr gets 7 scrambling to the left. There is also a 2nd and 20 play (that the game film doesn't show the coverage on the WR's at all) where Carr could have stayed in the pocket longer but ended up running left for a 1 yd gain but would have had a bunch more if DD hadn't whiffed a block. That was the play immediately before the throw to Gaffney over the middle for a 1st down.
My bad, he got 7 yards when we could have had a first down. Might note, he fumbles the ball out of bounds which I didn't see from my seats at the game as it was on the opposite side of the field. Also, on the play before, which I don't remember from being at the game, he ran up the middle for 1 yard on 2nd and 11.

Last edited by mean mark8; 11-11-2005 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 11-11-2005   #130
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Originally Posted by mean mark8
My bad, he got 7 yards when we could have had a first down. Might note, he fumbles the ball out of bounds which I didn't see from my seats at the game as it was on the opposite side of the field.
Well, I will just compliment you on your ability to watch Carr, the OL and all 3 WR's to know they were all open (amazing that would happen, but OK) all in real time at the game. Be nice if there was an example we could actually go look at rather than rely on a memory and opinion that all 3 WR's were open. Of course if they were, then Carr should have thrown the ball.

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Also, on the play before, which I don't remember from being at the game, he ran up the middle for 1 yard on 2nd and 11.
Wade let the LDE in almost unimpeded. Carr broke an arm tackle from him. The RDE was inside Pitts and the NT collapsed the middle of the pocket--basically a stampede to Carr. Carr avoided the NT to get back to the LOS and avoid the sack.
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Old 11-11-2005   #131
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Well, I will just compliment you on your ability to watch Carr, the OL and all 3 WR's to know they were all open (amazing that would happen, but OK) all in real time at the game. Be nice if there was an example we could actually go look at rather than rely on a memory and opinion that all 3 WR's were open. Of course if they were, then Carr should have thrown the ball.
Yeah, I know you get a much better vantage point from tv rather than mid-level seats in the end-zone.
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Old 11-11-2005   #132
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Originally Posted by mean mark8
Yeah, I know you get a much better vantage point from tv rather than mid-level seats in the end-zone.
I was at the game as I have been at every home game thank you very much. Personally I find it impossible to watch 3 WR's, the QB and OL all at the same time in real time but hey more power to you if you want to claim that ability.
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Old 11-12-2005   #133
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
wow...I didn't think we could get this low.
The season is still young.... plenty of room to fall.

I hear Mr. Couch is still looking for a job....

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Old 11-12-2005   #134
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Me neither. Very pathetic and immature.....

I wish we could talk football.
Lighten up Francis... it's all in fun.
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