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Old 09-28-2012   #21
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike02 View Post
It could be that bigger guys are just becoming more agile. It isn't like you would decline a guy because he is big, as long as he can move, the bigger the better.

Mike
Are Rashad Butler, Newton, Caldwell, Gardner and Brandon Brooks more agile than their predecessors? Newton maybe over WInston but I have not seen enough of him to say emphatically yes.
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Old 09-28-2012   #22
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
Let's just stick to what works, yeah?
Don't try to fix something that aint broke.

If they change the rules adapt then.

I can't see Kubes changing what he has done for a decade or so.
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Old 09-28-2012   #23
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Gibbs was far from a failure for the Texans. His personell was of limited experience and/or talent and "fit." There was transition from and resistance and conflict with the power run offense principles. The ZBS is not an easy system to install and certainly takes very much more difficult-to-find type of players to run it in the first place........and an even greater challenge time-wise to choreograph it so that it can run effectively and consistently. The ZBS takes extreme blood, sweat and tears......and painful commitment. That is what Gibbs left as his legacy to the team you see today.

This ARTICLE will be of historic interest to any Texans fan.
I don't know if we'll see Gibbs true legacy until we see guys like Ben Jones, Caldwell, or Newton develop. He was pretty hands off, if I remember correctly, teaching our current OL coaches. So, how well they do their job will tell us how well Gibbs did his job.
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Old 09-28-2012   #24
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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In the past thats always been an issue - finesse linemen have trouble plowing through the last 5yards or so.
If that's true, & I'm not saying it is, then why would you "plow" through the last 5 yards? Stretch them... It may be a little more difficult being on the short field, but the field is just as wide as it is on any other part of the field.
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Old 09-28-2012   #25
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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If that's true, & I'm not saying it is, then why would you "plow" through the last 5 yards? Stretch them... It may be a little more difficult being on the short field, but the field is just as wide as it is on any other part of the field.
It's "shorter" because the secondary has less ground to cover. It's like
adding extra linebackers. The throwing windows close much faster, and
so do the running lanes.
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Old 09-28-2012   #26
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Gibbs was far from a failure for the Texans. His personell was of limited experience and/or talent and "fit." There was transition from and resistance and conflict with the power run offense principles. The ZBS is not an easy system to install and certainly takes very much more difficult-to-find type of players to run it in the first place........and an even greater challenge time-wise to choreograph it so that it can run effectively and consistently. The ZBS takes extreme blood, sweat and tears......and painful commitment. That is what Gibbs left as his legacy to the team you see today.

This ARTICLE will be of historic interest to any Texans fan.
Thanks for posting that Doc. I really enjoyed reading it.

I tried, but alas, MSR
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Old 09-28-2012   #27
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
If that's true, & I'm not saying it is, then why would you "plow" through the last 5 yards? Stretch them... It may be a little more difficult being on the short field, but the field is just as wide as it is on any other part of the field.
On a regular stretch of field the zbs is out flanking the defense (or attempting to) or shooting the gaps the movement creates. By the goaline dbs are so much closer to the line of scrimmage that they can stall the flank without sacrificing to much in the pass defense. (One defender gaurds more terain against the pass.) The focus typically shifts from a flank to up the gut against a decent defense. Condensing the field against a movment offense forces it to win more one on one matchups. Does that make sense?
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Old 09-28-2012   #28
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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I tried, but alas, MSR
Got him for you.
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Old 09-28-2012   #29
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
The ZBS takes advantage of lighter, quicker of foot players that we seem not to go for in last two drafts. You mention Winston who on numerous talk radio stints said he preferred the "knock the other guy back and to manhandle him". He stated that is what offensive linemen want to do. We seem to have adapted the ZBS since Kubiak's arrival.

I am not saying I think this will happen, just seems like draft is going that way.
Two objections to that sentence.
1. The emphasis is on "quicker of foot" and, in the past, those guys tended to be "lighter" than the road-grader, hog types. If guys are bigger and have some athleticism, then they can be effective zone blockers. which brings me to #2...

2. I'm not the draftnik you are but what I've read on our picks is that they've all been "athletic" types. Duane Brown, a former TE, springs immediately to mind. Wait... maybe that's your point...

So why the thought that we'd throw all the progress we've made offensively and go to a power run scheme??
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Old 09-28-2012   #30
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Two objections to that sentence.
1. The emphasis is on "quicker of foot" and, in the past, those guys tended to be "lighter" than the road-grader, hog types. If guys are bigger and have some athleticism, then they can be effective zone blockers. which brings me to #2...

2. I'm not the draftnik you are but what I've read on our picks is that they've all been "athletic" types. Duane Brown, a former TE, springs immediately to mind. Wait... maybe that's your point...

So why the thought that we'd throw all the progress we've made offensively and go to a power run scheme??
With exception of Myers, I think the line would be better at straight ahead power blocking. As I posted earlier I think NFL in it's new safety first mode will look closely at cut blocks and perhaps add to the already illegal chop blocks. If that happens, Texans ZBS would lose some of it's effectiveness.
Here is an interesting article from a former NFL player BEWARE of profanity
http://deadspin.com/5873830/an-insid...to-chop-blocks
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Old 09-28-2012   #31
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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With exception of Myers, I think the line would be better at straight ahead power blocking. As I posted earlier I think NFL in it's new safety first mode will look closely at cut blocks and perhaps add to the already illegal chop blocks. If that happens, Texans ZBS would lose some of it's effectiveness.
Here is an interesting article from a former NFL player BEWARE of profanity
http://deadspin.com/5873830/an-insid...to-chop-blocks
Elimination of the cut block will cause affect almost every team, not just the ZBS team since most teams use it during a game. You especially see it used to counter blitzing. But it's interesting to note, that there does not seem to be any teams that allow the use of that maneuver in their practices.
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Old 09-28-2012   #32
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Elimination of the cut block will cause affect almost every team, not just the ZBS team since most teams use it during a game. You especially see it used to counter blitzing. But it's interesting to note, that there does not seem to be any teams that allow the use of that maneuver in their practices.
I think it is used when a player cannot hold off the opponent and resorts to going for the knees. I believe most players would not use it unless instructed to or unless they were in danger of losing their spot.
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Old 09-29-2012   #33
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
On a regular stretch of field the zbs is out flanking the defense (or attempting to) or shooting the gaps the movement creates. By the goaline dbs are so much closer to the line of scrimmage that they can stall the flank without sacrificing to much in the pass defense. (One defender gaurds more terain against the pass.) The focus typically shifts from a flank to up the gut against a decent defense. Condensing the field against a movment offense forces it to win more one on one matchups. Does that make sense?
Still, when you're stretching the field, you've got our big bodies on their little bodies which should still spell success for us. Trying to plow through their big bodies is not our forte....

By stretching the field, we cut their defensive front in half & attack their defense where we want.
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Old 09-29-2012   #34
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

Maybe Kubiak figured out he doesn't necessarily need lighter or faster guys. Zone blocking is more about moving as a whole. If they run a fake stretch, boot of Schaub for a big pass play to AJ down the field for a TD, who cares if the OL faked the defense 12 yards out of the way or 10? I think it all basically works as long as Myers, the lightest and quickest of foot, is able to get to the MIKE LBer.
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Old 09-29-2012   #35
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Default Re: Would Kubiak change to power O in 2013?

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Maybe Kubiak figured out he doesn't necessarily need lighter or faster guys. Zone blocking is more about moving as a whole. If they run a fake stretch, boot of Schaub for a big pass play to AJ down the field for a TD, who cares if the OL faked the defense 12 yards out of the way or 10? I think it all basically works as long as Myers, the lightest and quickest of foot, is able to get to the MIKE LBer.
I am pretty sure Kubiak said something to this effect when asked about drafting the bigger OG this draft. As I remember, he said there was never a size limitation in the zone system, but that the player needs to have the individual movement skills that could translate to learning to work within the system as a whole.

anyway, outside of the Gibbs year, the Texans have run more a mixed system they are given credit. Zone blocking is the basis of what they do, but they do mix in so-called power runs also. Zone versus power is sort a misleading debate when a mixture is real the truth of what they do.
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