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Old 09-11-2012   #201
kwayshauntay
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
A few plays later, at 7:40, Jones caught a 28-yd pass on Culliver.
On this play, Culliver was also in-phase (side by side) with the receiver; he never turned around to locate the ball.
Jones, however, extended his arm on the DB to get seperation and was called for offensive PI.
Yes and on that play you'll notice Culliver was roundly chastised by Aikman for failing to turn around to find the ball, as well he should be.
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Old 09-11-2012   #202
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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I'm going to have to agree with 76 on this one. We can't expect the corner to turn his head every time. Some times it's just not practical. Since he first mentioned it, I've been watching & too many times the CB doesn't turn his head & there appears to be commonalities between those instances. Like the TD fade to Andre. Unless that CB has major ups, turning his head would have made it much worse. Instead, he kept his eyes on AJ & made it a difficult catch. (perfect throw by the way).



I've never played DB (too slow) so I've never been coached. But on the Hartline catch we're talking about, Kj was more or less behind the receiver who was being led pretty good. Had he turned to find the ball, I don't think he would have had a shot at it or the tackle.

In that case, I can see a coach telling his player to play the man, watch his eyes, get his hands in the receivers view. Don't touch the receiver, but get his hands between the receivers elbows or something to make it difficult for him to pull the ball in.
Single frames don't tell you the whole story. Re-watch that play again, and you'll see Sean Smith at least attempts to turn his head to locate the ball. He first turns his head right, but is unable to locate the ball. He then turns his head left, and is unable to locate the ball, before finally Andre catches it. Sometimes, you get beat. He still displayed the basic instinct that all good cornerbacks have, which is to turn your head and try to locate the ball.
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Old 09-11-2012   #203
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

Like I said, overall the Miami game was a decent one for Kareem. He did more good than bad.


Among the good was this:



Well I'll be, he turned to locate the ball, how 'bout that. You can't overstate the importance of turning to locate the ball. Because he did so in this instance, he was not called for PI even though he bumped into Hartline. When you turn to locate the ball, you are given more leeway if contact occurs, because you have just as much right to the ball as the receiver, provided that you turn your head to locate the ball.


Among the few bad things he did this game was this, which should be old hat to all Texans fans:

(Two views of the same play)





For the past two seasons Texans fans have been subjected to far too much of the latter (not to mention Faggins and Reeves having that same shortcoming) and not enough of the former.

We need more of the former, and less of the latter.

The Miami game was a good start, so on to the next game...
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Old 09-11-2012   #204
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
Antoine Cason (2008 1st round pick, 27th overall)





Cason was clearly ahead of the receiver at the start when he first saw the ball.
Even though he ended up a little bit in the trail position, he was really close enough.
He had a pretty good idea where the ball is going to go from the beginning.
This is one instance that the DB has to look for the ball.

Another reason here is that Cason was playing outside technique with safety help in the middle.
He didn't have to worry about the post route, and probably not the skinny post either (look at how far outside the numbers the safety got to.)

Reps for all the videos.
Great job!
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Old 09-11-2012   #205
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

Joseph talked about this on the radio this morning and said the same thing I've said before. Locating the ball is something you can work on, but being able to make plays on the ball consistently is something you either can do or can't do.

And you can't compare what Shawn Smith is doing while covering Andre Johnson to what Kareem is doing covering freaking Hartline...

But 76 is right. You aren't supposed to look for the ball when the receiver has a step or two on you. Not unless you see him start to slow down for the ball or once you have made up enough ground to comfortably do so.

That is when your instincts come into play...

Where I agree with others is that Kareem hasn't been great at finding the ball when running down field. When he's facing the action he's pretty good, but once he has to flip his hips and run he is lacking....BUT he has gotten much better in that area which is what's most important...
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Old 09-11-2012   #206
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
Yes and on that play you'll notice Culliver was roundly chastised by Aikman for failing to turn around to find the ball, as well he should be.
This is an instance where the DB should turn his head, we all agreed on that.
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Old 09-11-2012   #207
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Single frames don't tell you the whole story. Re-watch that play again, and you'll see Sean Smith at least attempts to turn his head to locate the ball. He first turns his head right, but is unable to locate the ball. He then turns his head left, and is unable to locate the ball, before finally Andre catches it. Sometimes, you get beat. He still displayed the basic instinct that all good cornerbacks have, which is to turn your head and try to locate the ball.
Like I said before, and Rey agreed, this is another instance where the DB should look for the ball.

He was all over AJ with his left hand, and he was somewhat ahead of the receiver.

However, he should not have turn his head twice.
He might have been able to play through the receiver after the first turn of the head (and unable to locate the ball).
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Old 09-11-2012   #208
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
I remembered incorrectly. It was Tarell Brown (2007 5th round pick) that had the head-turn, locate-the-ball play that stuck out in my mind (2:05 1st Quarter).






Culliver (2011 3rd round pick) did have that play you mentioned where he got away with a jersey grab. The point is, he still turned his head to locate the ball. He demonstrated that he has that basic cornerback instinct, at least on this play.





And also on this play





On similar plays, where the ball was underthrown, how many times the last two years have we seen Kareem never turn his head to locate the ball, and instead just flail and run into the guy?
Again, look at the position between the DB and the receiver.

In play one, the DB had a hand on the receiver's shoulder pad.
He was in phase with the receiver.

In play two, the DB was ahead of the receiver.

Both of those instances indicate that the DB can afford to turn his head.
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Old 09-11-2012   #209
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Again, look at the position between the DB and the receiver.

In play one, the DB had a hand on the receiver's shoulder pad.
He was in phase with the receiver.

In play two, the DB was ahead of the receiver.

Both of those instances indicate that the DB can afford to turn his head.
So why didn't KJ turn his head on that Hartline completion? Or countless other completions the past two years?
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Old 09-11-2012   #210
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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So why didn't KJ turn his head on that Hartline completion? Or countless other completions the past two years?
Read Rey's post.
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Old 09-11-2012   #211
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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So why didn't KJ turn his head on that Hartline completion? Or countless other completions the past two years?
First let me say it takes for E--V--E---R to arrow past the video snaps you guys post but my point is if the defender is within say arm's reach of WR and a jump could impact the flight of ball, he should look back. If not at that distance he should be making up ground not looking for ball as he will not be part of the play.
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Old 09-11-2012   #212
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Read Rey's post.
I assume you mean this part of Rey's post:

Quote:
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But 76 is right. You aren't supposed to look for the ball when the receiver has a step or two on you. Not unless you see him start to slow down for the ball or once you have made up enough ground to comfortably do so.
So Brian freaking Hartline (Rey's words, but I share the sentiment) got a step or two on him, and he was unable to make up enough ground on Brian freaking Hartline to comfortably be able to turn and locate the ball. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Kareem?

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Joseph talked about this on the radio this morning and said the same thing I've said before. Locating the ball is something you can work on, but being able to make plays on the ball consistently is something you either can do or can't do.
So is JJo implying there is no hope for Kareem?
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Old 09-11-2012   #213
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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First let me say it takes for E--V--E---R to arrow past the video snaps you guys post but my point is if the defender is within say arm's reach of WR and a jump could impact the flight of ball, he should look back. If not at that distance he should be making up ground not looking for ball as he will not be part of the play.
I agree with this post.
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Old 09-11-2012   #214
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
I assume you mean this part of Rey's post:



So Brian freaking Hartline (Rey's words, but I share the sentiment) got a step or two on him, and he was unable to make up enough ground on Brian freaking Hartline to comfortably be able to turn and locate the ball. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Kareem?



So is JJo implying there is no hope for Kareem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
I agree with this post.
Badboy was saying that a DB should not blindly turn his head back to look at the ball.

I am not discussing about anything else the last couple of days, except for when a DB should look back for the ball.

BTW, I'm going back to watch some games from last year, and I noticed that on a PI call against Clyde Gates (Dolphins), KJ did look back to locate the ball.
This is another classic 2-man route where Quin was late to get back in the deep middle (the crosser was already taken care of).
This is at the 5:01 mark in the 2nd quarter.

At 13:19, Hartline almost pulled in a toe-tap 25-yd catch on pretty much the same route and defense as the one in the game this year.
Dan Fouts called it "good coverage by KJ... Perfect throw and catch."
Almost an incompletion.
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Old 09-11-2012   #215
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
I assume you mean this part of Rey's post:



So Brian freaking Hartline (Rey's words, but I share the sentiment) got a step or two on him, and he was unable to make up enough ground on Brian freaking Hartline to comfortably be able to turn and locate the ball. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Kareem?



So is JJo implying there is no hope for Kareem?
I think JJo was just being honest.

Is Kareem elite? No. He's not. Are there corners with better ball skills and natural instincts than Kareem? Absolutely.

But football isn't played in a vacuum. It helps when you are a well rounded player. While KAreem doesn't have the deep coverage skill of some guys, when teams run out on the edge or throw short routes in front of him, he is almost money. Kareem does a lot of good things, and honestly I love his physicality out on the edge and in coverage. He's more physical than Joseph, but he doesn't have the ball skills, speed or fluidity.

But Joseph sometimes gets out-bodied by receivers if you haven't noticed. What makes Joseph a top corner IMO is that he consistently is able to make plays on the ball and his elite athleticism.

Revis even gets beat at times and he is like the perfect mixture or what you'd want in a corner. Physical in coverage, good speed, quickness, fluidity and tremendous ball skills.

If Kareem had those ball skills and all that other stuff he'd be an top tier or elite corner.

My main argument with 76 over Kareem was about his rookie year and how I felt like he was trying to excuse Kareem's shortcomings. I never felt like he couldn't improve. And well, he has. He is a decent to good starting corner in the NFL.

Can we find a corner with better ball skills? Probably. Can we find an overall better player there? Maybe.
IF the opportunity arises to possibly upgrade the position, we should do it.
But Kareem is no longer the liability he used to be. I think we should appreciate that. He's going to have some bad moments...All corners do.
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Old 09-11-2012   #216
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

Against the Saints, there was a play at 9:35 in the fourth where Brees threw a 27-yd TD to the TE Graham in the left corner of the end zone.

Graham lined up as a wide out with Quin playing as the RCB.
He (Quin) was in the trail position and never turned his head around.

With 3 mins left, Brees threw an incompletion to the right to Meachem.
JJo got beat on that out route; he never turned his head around.
(No time).

On both 2-point conversions, JJo was beaten by the receiver and never had time to look for the ball.
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Old 09-11-2012   #217
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by kwayshauntay View Post
I assume you mean this part of Rey's post:

So Brian freaking Hartline (Rey's words, but I share the sentiment) got a step or two on him, and he was unable to make up enough ground on Brian freaking Hartline to comfortably be able to turn and locate the ball. Is that supposed to make me feel better about Kareem?
Hartline doesn't have a lot of straight speed, but the dude is quick off the cut, placing first in all wide receivers in the 60 yard shuffle drill. It simply looks like Kareem underestimated him a bit.

Hartline finished tops among all wide receivers with a 10.92 in the 60-yard shuttle. In the three cone drill, he finished second among his position with a time of 6.65, while taking home fourth place in the 20-yard shuttle (4.12). Robiskie was fifth and eighth respectively, while not having an official time in the 60-yard shuttle. For comparison purposes, Georgia’s Knowshon Moreno clocked in at 11.63.
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Old 09-11-2012   #218
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

Against the Ravens, with 2:31 left in the half, McCain was in trail position but turned his head to try to locate the ball.
He gave up more separation from Torrey Smith; luckily, Flacco's pass was long.
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Old 09-11-2012   #219
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

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Like I said, overall the Miami game was a decent one for Kareem. He did more good than bad.

We need more of the former, and less of the latter.

The Miami game was a good start, so on to the next game...
Couple point heres:
- Kareem bit a bit on the out and up, and then got
- The pass was perfectly thrown, and a great catch.
- Daniel Manning was lined up over the top it seems, KJ was lined up inside which leads me to believe he might have help over the top.
- LOL Quinn straight up mugged his guy (side note)

It was a pretty damn nice throw and catch the one thing KJ did was try to play to the receivers hands/eyes and swat the ball out.

The one thing you guys aren't talking about as well that I think is overlooked is KJ is a very good tackler for a corner as well. He's not afraid to make the hard tackle, and he had several of them early on in the game and a nice hit on the receiver later in the game.

I agree he's not perfect, but I don't think the sky is falling with him either.
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Old 09-11-2012   #220
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Default Re: The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

Against the Panthers, JJo gave up a 26-yd TD to Steve Smith in the first quarter.
He didn't pin the receiver to the side line; instead he was looking at the ball, hoping that Newton would make a mistake. There's a poor decision to try to locate the ball way too early.

With 8:58 to go in the third, KJ was step for step with the receiver LaFell; he didn't look back because the slot receiver was running a wheel route and KJ has yet to arrive to a point where he can pin the receive to the side line (too early in the stem - but he was about to); Newton had to throw the ball out of bound. The commentator called it "good coverage".
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