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Old 08-27-2012   #261
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
You guys do know that NFL.com has highlights of every game, especially touchdown plays, right? Here's a link to the Texans/Saints highlights, I believe you can see the play you're talking about around the 20 second mark:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...nts-highlights

I'll post something awesome in the graphics and tech section in the near future this week. Just wait...

Edit: nevermind, here's the play by itself:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-presea...-Martin-for-TD
Sometimes I watch those replays, but since I have my own copy, sometimes I forgot all about those highlights.

Thanks for reminding me.
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Old 08-27-2012   #262
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.
Exactly!
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Old 08-27-2012   #263
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
You guys do know that NFL.com has highlights of every game, especially touchdown plays, right? Here's a link to the Texans/Saints highlights, I believe you can see the play you're talking about around the 20 second mark:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...nts-highlights

I'll post something awesome in the graphics and tech section in the near future this week. Just wait...

Edit: nevermind, here's the play by itself:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-presea...-Martin-for-TD
Based on this video, BOTH KW and OD created "picks" by slanting towards the right with Martin slanting left underneath them. This created a wide open void in the middle of the field.

KW was not the unsung hero here, any one could have done that specific play. Fact is Walter is diminishing in ability
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Old 08-27-2012   #264
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.
Yeah, I was concerned he was going to get a Offensive PI on that play because he reached out towards the CB that was on Martin, but he didn't. I can recall a couple times I have seen KW get tagged with an OPI, one memorably against the Jags in the end zone on a TD play. I believe it was 2010. Anyways, that sort of skill certainly has its place on our team, but I kind of doubt it's worth 2 million a year. I mean, is it really that hard to teach a young WR how to run three steps and button hook while pretending to be expecting a pass?

(Yeah, that's right, I didn't say curl route, wanna fight about it?)
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Old 08-27-2012   #265
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Whats funny is Kubiak said in his presser yesterday that he just calls the plays. He's not thinking about who's going to be getting the ball. I call BS on that one. There are certain play designs where he knows exactly who he wants to get the ball.
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Old 08-27-2012   #266
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
Based on this video, BOTH KW and OD created "picks" by slanting towards the right with Martin slanting left underneath them. This created a wide open void in the middle of the field.

KW was not the unsung hero here, any one could have done that specific play. Fact is Walter is diminishing in ability
Diminishing in what kind of ability?

I just posted some recaps of his route running in the week 7 Tenn game last year.

In less than one and a half quarter, he was open 3 times and Schaub didn't throw the ball to him.

How can a receiver has a catch if the ball wasn't thrown to him?

There was another play where Schaub threw the ball wide out of bound, not giving Walter the opportunity to catch it.
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Old 08-27-2012   #267
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Diminishing in what kind of ability?

I just posted some recaps of his route running in the week 7 Tenn game last year.

In less than one and a half quarter, he was open 3 times and Schaub didn't throw the ball to him.

How can a receiver has a catch if the ball wasn't thrown to him?

There was another play where Schaub threw the ball wide out of bound, not giving Walter the opportunity to catch it.
this is a weak attempt to try and justify your man crush on KW. Look, I like him as a person and he has a place on this team, as a 3rd or 4th wide out, give guys with big play ability the opportunity to help this team. Gary has a reputation for riding veterans too long (Chris Brown, Ahman Green, Bryant Johnson etc.). Kw is just his latest attempt.

You can go through and find "film" on every player and show examples of highlights, but capitalizing and helping the team is entirely different.
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Old 08-27-2012   #268
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Diminishing in what kind of ability?

I just posted some recaps of his route running in the week 7 Tenn game last year.

In less than one and a half quarter, he was open 3 times and Schaub didn't throw the ball to him.

How can a receiver has a catch if the ball wasn't thrown to him?

There was another play where Schaub threw the ball wide out of bound, not giving Walter the opportunity to catch it.
I think its time to bust out the Schaub/Walter conspiracy theories.
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Old 08-27-2012   #269
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
this is a weak attempt to try and justify your man crush on KW. Look, I like him as a person and he has a place on this team, as a 3rd or 4th wide out, give guys with big play ability the opportunity to help this team. Gary has a reputation for riding veterans too long (Chris Brown, Ahman Green, Bryant Johnson etc.). Kw is just his latest attempt.

You can go through and find "film" on every player and show examples of highlights, but capitalizing and helping the team is entirely different.
Capitalizing on what?

Is he supposed to be able to fly so he can zoom to the other side of the field to catch a ball that wasn't thrown to him?

He ranked number 3 in the NFL the last 3 seasons for lowest number of drops.

I would say he CAPITALIZED on plenty of his chances,
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Old 08-27-2012   #270
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.
That route combination and its execution made that score easy ..... I dont think you would ask a rookie to get away with that.
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Old 08-27-2012   #271
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That route combination and its execution made that score easy ..... I dont think you would ask a rookie to get away with that.
When that play went down I immediately thought that good OC's would grow to love the noob ref's who may not pick up on this as much as the seasoned guys.
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Old 08-27-2012   #272
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That route combination and its execution made that score easy ..... I dont think you would ask a rookie to get away with that.
I could be wrong, but I'm almost cetain the Titans used Wright to do that earlier in the preseason on a TD pass from Locker to Washington against Arizona. Different route combos, but I think Wright was the one to pick off the defender to set Washington free.

Edit: I went back and looked and it was Jared Cook that set the pick. But I do agree with Rey. I think we're overrating the skill somewhat to simply get in the way of a defender to set someone free. Look, I understand that Walter has value to the team. In all of my posts even criticizing his skill set, I've never said otherwise. You're probably overrating his skills somewhat. Somewhere in the middle of his critics and his hype men is probably where Kevin's true value and skill set lies.
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Old 08-27-2012   #273
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
I could be wrong, but I'm almost cetain the Titans used Wright to do that earlier in the preseason on a TD pass from Locker to Washington against Arizona. Different route combos, but I think Wright was the one to pick off the defender to set Washington free.

That's because people are over stating the skill level that it takes to do something like that.

Besides that I can remember a few times KW has been penalized for those types of plays and truthfully he probably should have been flagged there as Vinny alluded to...
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Old 08-27-2012   #274
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That's because people are over stating the skill level that it takes to do something like that.

Besides that I can remember a few times KW has been penalized for those types of plays and truthfully he probably should have been flagged there as Vinny alluded to...
Should we trust your memory?

Nah, I don't believe the ref can call that one.

Everybody has right of way.

Walter's defender actually blocked him into KMart's defender.


And it certainly looks to me that Kubiak didn't think his blocking skill is overrated because he's keeping on using Walter as such.
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Old 08-27-2012   #275
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

I'm gonna go ahead and finish the first half of the Titans game for those who are interested.

Yup, surely Walter can get open.

Houston Texans at 5:41

1-10-HST 6 (5:41) A.Foster right guard to HST 7 for 1 yard (K.Klug).

Block DF

2-9-HST 7 (5:07) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to HST 15 for 8 yards (J.McCourty).
Quick slant from wide out.
Had to lay out to catch the ball as Schaub led him pretty far.
Walter did not have a chance to run after the catch as he was on the ground after stretching to catch that ball.
He got a ton of separation.

3-1-HST 15 (4:29) M.Schaub pass short left to D.Mason to HST 22 for 7 yards (C.Finnegan). P12
Penalty on TEN-C.Finnegan, Defensive Holding, declined.
Ran a fly route down the left side line; had a step on CB (who was in trail position).
Had plenty of room on the side line for Schaub to throw the ball to.
Schaub only needs one yard for the first down so he went the sure thing underneath.


1-10-HST 22 (4:08) M.Schaub pass short left to A.Foster for 78 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
NILU
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Old 08-27-2012   #276
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Houston Texans at 1:52

1-10-TEN 48 (1:52) M.Schaub pass short right to O.Daniels to TEN 30 for 18 yards (J.Babineaux; J.McCourty). P14
11P
Lined up wide right and run a Hi-Lo concept with the TE OD
Titans were in a 52 zone.
LCB redirected Walter to the outside;
He would run downfield to take away the safety.
By occupying the flat defender and holding off the safety, Walter provided OD with plenty of room in the right flat on his quick out route.
Easy pass and catch.

1-10-TEN 30 (1:32) A.Foster up the middle to TEN 27 for 3 yards (K.Klug).
Run a similar route, basically clearing out as much room for the RB near the LOS while keeping the safety back


2-7-TEN 27 (1:13) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to TEN 20 for 7 yards (J.Babineaux). P15
Another Hi-Lo concept in 11 Personnel.
This time OD ran straight deep for Walter to run the quick 5-yd in route and work for a couple extra yards, making the first down in the process.

Timeout #2 by HST at 01:05.
1-10-TEN 20 (1:05) M.Schaub pass short right to A.Foster to TEN 15 for 5 yards (J.McCourty).
11 P
All receivers ran clearing route for Foster to catch a quick pass in the flat to gain some yards.
Here Foster should have gone out of bound to kill the clock.

2-5-TEN 15 (:42) M.Schaub pass incomplete short left to M.Schaub.
Schaub was pressured, ran out of the pocket and threw the ball away.
Both OD and Walter was open in the short hole and curl, but Schaub didnít quite have the time to setp up as D. Brown got beat pretty quickly.
Walter smartly ran the quick slant in front of the referee, using him to shield off the defender. He was wide open.

3-5-TEN 15 (:34) M.Schaub pass short right to A.Foster to TEN 11 for 4 yards (J.McCourty).
All receivers ran clearing route for Foster to catch a quick pass in the flat to gain some yards.

Timeout #3 by HST at 00:04.
4-1-TEN 11 (:04) (Field Goal formation) N.Rackers 29 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-B.Hartmann.
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Old 08-27-2012   #277
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Capitalizing on what?

Is he supposed to be able to fly so he can zoom to the other side of the field to catch a ball that wasn't thrown to him?

He ranked number 3 in the NFL the last 3 seasons for lowest number of drops.

I would say he CAPITALIZED on plenty of his chances,
You really do like to cherry pick stats to try and find some argument, but at the end of the day you're talking about an under performing WR. If you went onto some other forum for all teams and put this much energy into defending a nobody like Walter, you'd look like a pretty hard core homer to be putting out this much effort for a below average WR like Walter.

Lowest # of drops? Dude, he doesn't even get the ball thrown to him that often, because he struggles to get separation. That is one of the most meaningless stats you could have found to try and act like Walter is anything other then some coach favorite at this point. He'll be weeded out of this offense as the season goes on. It's inevitable.
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Old 08-27-2012   #278
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
That's because people are over stating the skill level that it takes to do something like that.

Besides that I can remember a few times KW has been penalized for those types of plays and truthfully he probably should have been flagged there as Vinny alluded to...
I will also add to that pick plays are run in every level of football. There aren't 9 year NFL vets playing high school football these days to do this. I applaud him when he makes a good block, catches a nice pass, has a nice run after a catch, but I think its stretching to just pat him on the back and jump up and down over this one.
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Old 08-27-2012   #279
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
You really do like to cherry pick stats to try and find some argument, but at the end of the day you're talking about an under performing WR. If you went onto some other forum for all teams and put this much energy into defending a nobody like Walter, you'd look like a pretty hard core homer to be putting out this much effort for a below average WR like Walter.

Lowest # of drops? Dude, he doesn't even get the ball thrown to him that often, because he struggles to get separation. That is one of the most meaningless stats you could have found to try and act like Walter is anything other then some coach favorite at this point. He'll be weeded out of this offense as the season goes on. It's inevitable.
You can go back and check the stats of the number of passes he had the last 3 years.

It's a good guess that he also had good hands in 2008.

He caught more balls in that time period than McCaffrey whom some of you guys thought to be really great.

And the first half of the Titans game I just broke down shows that Walter did get open. (And this happened in every of the 9 games I watched with the All-22 view and the end zone view).

He could have had at least 5 catches at the half easily.
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Old 08-27-2012   #280
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
Last year's Oakland Game, Shaub targeted Jacoby 11 times, not one catch.

He targeted Walter..... 0 times. We lost that game. If KW was getting open & it would have helped us win the game, I'm sure Schaub would have found a way to at least throw the ball his way.

Unless now we're saying Schaub should be replaced.
Walter had 5 catches for 81 yards and a TD in that game.
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