Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

[Grams]

Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade

Did Kevin Walter play against the Saints? That's a very good question because I didn't even hear his name mentioned even one time. Did he register a catch at all? Looking at the box score I see 11 total guys catching a pass but none of them are Walter. Hmm, very odd for a guy who should be open a lot of times.

Yes, he was out there - at least once that I saw. But no catches or thrown to that I remember.

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

Im tired of hearing about Kevin Walter's run blocking.. if this is the case let's just line a FB out wide.

His primary job is to catch footballs and make plays... so how many catches does he have this preseason? Fact is, he's being out played by two young bucks.. young bucks who are much better playmakers and much more explosive. Also from what I've seen so far, it looks like they know where to be as well.. it's not like they need a map in order to line up.

This offense needs more players who can score from anywhere on the field. Where we don't have to rely on stringing together a bunch of plays. Walter is not that guy.

Not really in our offense. His job is to do the little things and maybe catch a ball a game. Kubiak loves him so he will be here this year. Not saying im in love with the idea, just stating how they feel about him.

[HOU-TEX]

He had a very good block on Foster's TD run. Just throwing it out there

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade

Did Kevin Walter play against the Saints? That's a very good question because I didn't even hear his name mentioned even one time. Did he register a catch at all? Looking at the box score I see 11 total guys catching a pass but none of them are Walter. Hmm, very odd for a guy who should be open a lot of times.

He was out there with the first team almost the entire first half. He came off for a few plays here and there.

He did not make a catch. But he did draw coverage and allow other people to be open and he did block. I don't recall him being targeted at all.

A lot of this offense isn't based on who's open but on who's supposed to be open. That's dictated by Schaub's reading of the defense.

KW has his role on this team. But by mid-season, I don't expect him to be the #2 anymore. And like last year, I don't expect him to end up with the second most catches... I don't expect him to finish in the top 4 in terms of receiving on this team this year.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

So watch the All-22 and come with something specific. Because so far, he's the only one in here selling anything of substance. Everyone else (myself included) is selling speculation and conjecture based on things they haven't been able to see before this year, because the TV feed doesn't show it all. I'm not saying 76Texan can't be wrong, but I'd like to see All-22 compared between him and someone who is trying to refute what he's saying, instead of what I've seen so far.

Nope, not doing it. You shouldn't be required to go pay for a service and waste valuable time breaking down every single play just for people to listen to a opinion around here. That's rediculous.. I'll do something like that only if I'm getting compensated to do so.

Watchng all-22 isn't going to change anything around here.. you'll still have two different people watchng the same thing and forming two completely different opinions.. it'll just be with a different medium.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by BigBull17

Not really in our offense. His job is to do the little things and maybe catch a ball a game. Kubiak loves him so he will be here this year. Not saying im in love with the idea, just stating how they feel about him.

He is a WR.. #1 duty listed on his job description should be the ability to get seperation and consistently be a available target. If all he's able to do is block down on someone then he needs a much smaller role in the offense ( which I'm sure he'll be getting this season).

With a healthy Andre you can get away with Walter's deficiencies in the passing game, but when 80 went down they became a liability.. one of the reasons why WR was one of the top priorities this offseason.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

Nope, not doing it. You shouldn't be required to go pay for a service and waste valuable time breaking down every single play just for people to listen to a opinion around here.

I listened to your opinion. So did everyone else. We also listened when you said you weren't changing your opinion no matter what. At the end of the day, I hear your opinion and everyone else's, but if I'm weighing them, I'm giving more credence to the guy who's actually watched what's going on vs. the guy sitting around saying he didn't see Walter doing anything. That's all.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

See, that's pretty much /thread for me, guys. You can come with all the opinions you want, but this man has watched the film.

Last year's Oakland Game, Shaub targeted Jacoby 11 times, not one catch.

He targeted Walter..... 0 times. We lost that game. If KW was getting open & it would have helped us win the game, I'm sure Schaub would have found a way to at least throw the ball his way.

Unless now we're saying Schaub should be replaced.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Last year's Oakland Game, Shaub targeted Jacoby 11 times, not one catch.

He targeted Walter..... 0 times. We lost that game. If KW was getting open & it would have helped us win the game, I'm sure Schaub would have found a way to at least throw the ball his way.

Unless now we're saying Schaub should be replaced.

You're sure? We have a guy in the thread who has watched 9 games from last year on the All-22 and said Walter was open, and you're sure?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

You're sure? We have a guy in the thread who has watched 9 games from last year on the All-22 and said Walter was open, and you're sure?

Are you saying we need to replace Schaub? Because I can find 72,000 fans who knew Jacoby wasn't going to catch those 11 passes. If nothing else, he should have figured it out after the third one... & hit the open KW.........


just saying.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Are you saying we need to replace Schaub? Because I can find 72,000 fans who knew Jacoby wasn't going to catch those 11 passes. If nothing else, he should have figured it out after the third one... & hit the open KW.........


just saying.

haha

C'mon Eriadoc....

You have to admit, that's pretty funny...

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

I listened to your opinion. So did everyone else. We also listened when you said you weren't changing your opinion no matter what. At the end of the day, I hear your opinion and everyone else's, but if I'm weighing them, I'm giving more credence to the guy who's actually watched what's going on vs. the guy sitting around saying he didn't see Walter doing anything. That's all.

So thanks to "all-22" we've now formed a elitist group who's "opinion matters more"... that's if you feel like paying more and have a crap load of time to waste. Gotcha.

You keep listening to excuses why Walter is effective soley on him being the greatest blocker to ever walk the earth and I'll just sit here and wait for somebody who can raise the production level at that position.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Are you saying we need to replace Schaub?

Not saying that at all, and I don't think one has to do with the other. One thing I've been saying all thread long is we don't really know what the design or intent is of any given play. Now that the All-22 is available, we can learn a couple things, such as what the routes are and who is open. But we still can't know why Walter wasn't targeted. If you want to pin that on Schaub, go for it. I'm not there. I just know that we have two pieces of information right now - Walter was open a lot more than we realized and yet he wasn't targeted. Reconcile that how you will.

If you think 76Texan is lying about Walter being open, then report back with your All-22 analysis. I may be getting it myself in the next week or two, so I plan to spend a little time going over last season's games.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

So thanks to "all-22" we've now formed a elitist group who's "opinion matters more"... that's if you feel like paying more and have a crap load of time to waste. Gotcha.

You keep listening to excuses why Walter is effective soley on him being the greatest blocker to ever walk the earth and I'll just sit here and wait for somebody who can raise the production level at that position.

You're still sticking with the faulty assumption that you started with. Walter is producing the way they want him to. It's not the production you want, and as I have repeatedly said, I want a WR who makes plays int he receiving game. The difference between you and me in this regard is I am just trying to understand what the heck the team is doing with Walter and how that may or may not translate to incoming young WRs. You're just doggedly stuck on this notion that the #2 WR should have 800-1000 yards receiving and the player is a failure if he doesn't deliver that. I don't think that's the role that's been laid out for him, and it would appear that the film at least bolsters that assertion.

You have nothing bolstering your assertion besides stats, which are simply a byproduct of the coaches' role for Walter.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Not saying that at all, and I don't think one has to do with the other. One thing I've been saying all thread long is we don't really know what the design or intent is of any given play.

I think they are both related. The Oakland game was real. We should have wanted to win. Schaub should be looking for the open receiver.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

If you think 76Texan is lying about Walter being open, then report back with your All-22 analysis. I may be getting it myself in the next week or two, so I plan to spend a little time going over last season's games.

I don't think he's lying at all.... but maybe his idea of open isn't the same as Schaub's idea of open & his is the one that counts. Besides, 76 may not be able to post video, but he's mastered the art of the screen shot & has the photobucket account to prove it.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Rey

haha

C'mon Eriadoc....

You have to admit, that's pretty funny...

As a long time Jacoby hater and early member of the hater club, I do find it funny LOL. And I admit to being as perplexed as y'all on why the hell Schaub would ever target that crappy ass WR, but then I repeatedly questioned why Kubiak kept putting him out there in the Ravens game too. Players and coaches do stuff that we fans think are stupid sometimes. *shrug*

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I don't think he's lying at all.... but maybe his idea of open isn't the same as Schaub's idea of open....

Well, I don't want this thread to devolve into a definition of what constitutes "open" int he NFL, but I think we can all agree that a step is all you need sometimes.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

Nope, not doing it. You shouldn't be required to go pay for a service and waste valuable time breaking down every single play just for people to listen to a opinion around here. That's rediculous.. I'll do something like that only if I'm getting compensated to do so.

Watchng all-22 isn't going to change anything around here.. you'll still have two different people watchng the same thing and forming two completely different opinions.. it'll just be with a different medium.

This ^^^^^.

/Debate.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

You're still sticking with the faulty assumption that you started with. Walter is producing the way they want him to. It's not the production you want, and as I have repeatedly said, I want a WR who makes plays int he receiving game. The difference between you and me in this regard is I am just trying to understand what the heck the team is doing with Walter and how that may or may not translate to incoming young WRs. You're just doggedly stuck on this notion that the #2 WR should have 800-1000 yards receiving and the player is a failure if he doesn't deliver that. I don't think that's the role that's been laid out for him, and it would appear that the film at least bolsters that assertion.

You have nothing bolstering your assertion besides stats, which are simply a byproduct of the coaches' role for Walter.

How the hell is my "assumption" faulty, but yours is not? First of all you're sitting there assuming "Walter is producing the only way they want him to" and they don't expect more production from that position. Did Kubes tell you that? Or did 76 get to sit in during a meeting and then phone you up? Your opinion is no less of a assumption as mine. WRs who do everything the coach expects from them to don't get asked to take a cut in pay..

As far as these 800-1000 WRs you keep saying I'm hung up on, Walter used to be one. I guess more was expected then huh? When Walter was producing up to that standard I didn't have a problem with him. When he couldn't even break the 500 mark with Andre out and with Jones on the team I did.. because it became blatantly obvious how badly we needed to upgrade the position. If you and others want to bury your head and act like it's not possible to greatly upgrade the position.. then do so, but don't get mad when others feel like we can or feel that Walter isn't irreplaceable.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

How the hell is my "assumption" faulty, but yours is not? First of all you're sitting there assuming "Walter is producing the only way they want him to" and they don't expect more production from that position.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time following the conversation. To make it easy for you, I'll just quote myself from a few different posts.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Except I admit my opinion is ill informed.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Everyone else (myself included) is selling speculation and conjecture based on things they haven't been able to see before this year, because the TV feed doesn't show it all.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

One thing I've been saying all thread long is we don't really know what the design or intent is of any given play. Now that the All-22 is available, we can learn a couple things ...

Originally Posted by eriadoc

The difference between you and me in this regard is I am just trying to understand what the heck the team is doing with Walter and how that may or may not translate to incoming young WRs.

Maybe it would work better in another language? I aim to accommodate. As for the greatly upgrade comment, I have made it abundantly clear that I too want to see that, and Lestar Jean is the guy I have targeted to fill that role. This really shouldn't be all that difficult to understand.