Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by drs23

Not to pick nits but...it's been two PS games now. Three if you count last year. He had two for fifty in the first game. One where he was defended pretty well. In two games he's had six receptions for 92 yards and averaged over 15 yards a catch. That's not too shabby.

Granted, it's only PS but that's what it's for. Evaluation. So far it seems as the folks that do the evaluating like what they see.

I, much like you and every other fan, hope to see Jean carry this production into the season. If he does then we can forget the Jacoby Jones comparisons. If not then the comparisons will have been valid.

Personally I think we're watching a receiver come into his own. On top of that he seems to be somewhat humble and I'll take that over Diva any day. (That's just my observation and not relevant to your post)

Well if you're going to mention a game from last season, then that would make my point more, but I don't want that to be the case. I liked what I saw, but I just want to see it in the regular season. It isn't just about Jacoby. Teams all around the league have guys like this who do great, but then disappear. I like what I'm seeing though.

On another note, I'm really liking what I'm seeing out of Schaub so far. He looks ready and as good as ever.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by texecutioner

walter's presence is not one that does a thing to worry opposing defensive coordinators.

Originally Posted by 76texan

walter was trpled-covered on the td to jean.

lol

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

lol

This is the NFL ... stats are everything , the details dont matter.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

lol

I don't know whether Walter was triple covered or not on that play, but if he was it's because it was a pre season game if anything. If you're going to sit here and act like that is evidence of Walter commanding attention from defenses, well that's a funny one considering we're talking about a guy that couldn't even muster up over 500 yards last season.

The only real attribute you guys clamor on to as far as Walter goes year after year is his amazing blocking. I don't think that is some sort of reason why teams would worry about Walter's play making abilities unless you're going to tell me that Walter is going to mow down half the defense like he's Bobby Bushay or something.

Originally Posted by Corrosion

This is the NFL ... stats are everything , the details dont matter.

Somehow I missed the fact that Kevin Walter is as effective as this guy as a blocker.

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by Cjeremy635

He caught the TD that put us into the playoffs for the 1st time in franchise history. That is something that no other receiver on the roster has done. Would AJ make that catch? 99% sure, but AJ was injured.

You're banking on a healthy AJ for an entire season. My gut tells me that may not be the case given his injury history over the last couple of seasons. So, you'd like to go into the season with 1 veteran receiver that has a good chance of getting injured? I don't think that's a smart call at all.

:/ Maybe we shouldn't have ever let Carr go cause he did throw a touchdown in our first franchise win ever or maybe Billy Miller because he caught that TD. In fact, perhaps we shouldn't have cut whomever made the first INT on defense too.

I'm don't think many people here are advocating a PS cut of Walter, but I don't see how anyone can make a real argument against his playing time and his status as #2 getting severely cut into over the season.

I don't think it has as much to do with Jean or Martin doing well in preseason as much as the lack of production over the past two seasons when the offense has needed him to step up. I mean is there another #2 in the league that has steadily disappeared like KW has?

[thunderkyss]

I agree with Thorn...... until these rooks (& LeStar) take a 16 game assWhup'n & come back looking for more, Walter starts & rightly so. If the coaches decide they are ready sooner than that, so be it. If they end up starting because of injury, so be it.

But damn they (Martin especially) look good.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I don't know whether Walter was triple covered or not on that play, but if he was it's because it was a pre season game if anything.

Walter ends up double covered quite a lot in regular season games, actually. I've seen it. It almost makes no sense, until you think about it. I'm not claiming he scares DCs into scheming for him, but I think it comes down to the fact that Kubiak draws up some incredible plays. And the guy he trusts to mind-f%@k the secondary is Walter. I have no doubt that once one of these young guys earns that trust from Kubiak, then we'll have a better playmaker on the field in the WR2 spot. Until then, Walter's going to continue doing exactly what Kubiak asks of him and he's going to continue to make people here frustrated. It's sort of comical, really.

The only real attribute you guys clamor on to ...

Careful with the friendly fire there, Tex. Read my first post. I want to see Jean in that spot. I just think that it's not as simple as the anti-Walter crowd wants to make it. I would much rather have a playmaker WR out there, but it's obvious that we don't know WTF we're talking about if Kubiak keeps trusting him with the job. For as many opportunities that Kubiak gave JJ, for instance, he never gave those opportunities at the expense of Walter. That says something.

[The Pencil Neck]

KW saw the writing on the wall when he took the pay cut to stay here. He knows that he's not going to be the #2 for long and if he hadn't taken that pay cut, he probably would have been cut along with Winston.

He's not the future. He knows his time is coming. But right now, he's our #2 while Lestar and Keshawn develop but by the end of the season, don't count on him having that position anymore. By mid-season, there's a good chance he's our #4.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Careful with the friendly fire there, Tex. Read my first post. I want to see Jean in that spot. I just think that it's not as simple as the anti-Walter crowd wants to make it. I would much rather have a playmaker WR out there, but it's obvious that we don't know WTF we're talking about if Kubiak keeps trusting him with the job. For as many opportunities that Kubiak gave JJ, for instance, he never gave those opportunities at the expense of Walter. That says something.

Kubiak is also the same guy that resigned JJ after several poor seasons and resigned him to a really nice deal. Had JJ not muffed that KR in the playoffs he is still here and Kubiak is probably ignoring the awful season he had before the fumble in the playoff game. Kubiak is also the guy that kept giving Chris Brown the RB all of those chances on the GL that season no matter how ineffective he was which cost the Texans a playoff birth that year. Kubiak trusted Amaan Green for one season to long after that horrible first season he had here. Kubiak may be a good offensive coach, but lets not act like his judgement can't be questioned. His history of hanging onto certain players is definitely spotty to say the least. I'm not saying that there may not be good reasons as well that Kubiak has kept his trust and his faith in Walter either, but lets not sit here and act like we can't question Kubiak's decisions either considering his history. A lot of us went ape **** when JJ was resigned and felt like it would haunt our team down the line and it did.

As Pencil Neck pointed out, Walter probably wouldn't even be here right now if he didn't take the pay cut.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Kubiak is also the same guy that resigned JJ after several poor seasons and resigned him to a really nice deal. Had JJ not muffed that KR in the playoffs he is still here and...

To be fair, what was he to do? LeStar & Trindon were both injured before the season started. That was his "get rid of Jacoby" plan.

Same thing with Chris Brown.... I'd have liked for them to have signed LJ before our bye week, but that's not the decision he made. I don't think it was because he felt he owed Chris Brown anything, but he expected a few of our young core to step up..... Aj, Schaub, Winston, OD, etc... things didn't go the way he planed, but the point is that I don't think it is because of some misplaced loyalty.

The man knows better than you or I, that it's his job on the line & "taking care" of Jacoby Jones isn't going to put food on the table.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

To be fair, what was he to do? LeStar & Trindon were both injured before the season started. That was his "get rid of Jacoby" plan.

Same thing with Chris Brown.... I'd have liked for them to have signed LJ before our bye week, but that's not the decision he made. I don't think it was because he felt he owed Chris Brown anything, but he expected a few of our young core to step up..... Aj, Schaub, Winston, OD, etc... things didn't go the way he planed, but the point is that I don't think it is because of some misplaced loyalty.

The man knows better than you or I, that it's his job on the line & "taking care" of Jacoby Jones isn't going to put food on the table.

Sorry, but this is just a spin. Kubiak has made those mistakes and those I mentioned are mistakes that cost the team. Trying to deflect it all on other things is counter productive to future speculation if we're going to look back on history. LJ was and never would have been a good player to bring in around that time either. He was horrible at that time and had a really bad attitude. Those mistakes cost the team. Simply saying he knows better than you and I because he is a coach isn't really saying anything other than Kubiak is a god because he's an NFL coach that coaches the Texans. What's the point in discussing the team then? Might as well just watch and accept everything Kubiak does as perfect because he apparently knows better than you and I no matter what despite his record being 47-49 in 6 years. He has made some great decisions as well, but to ignore others that haven't been smart sound decisions is not an accurate way to evaluate things. The current condition of the team looks good right now, but it hasn't been that way for the last 4 years.

[76Texan]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...ers/56671564/1

"If you ask anyone in our locker room who's the most underrated player, the most important player or the unsung hero of our team, it's Kevin," Texans quarterback Matt Schaub said. "Every time, hands down. No question."

Added Texans coach Gary Kubiak: "Kevin is just a solid player. He understands our offense to a T. He can play all over the place. He's always there, he never misses time, he never misses anything. He does a lot of dirty work. He's excellent in the run game. Kevin just kind of finds a way to do it."

...

While the statistics might ebb in one direction or the other, to Schaub they represent balance.
"We have a ton of weapons, and I don't think people really see that," he said. "They see a passing game, not an offense. They don't see the total package.

....

"Kevin may have a rough day or two out here at practice, but he's going to be here the whole camp," Kubiak said. "And when it's said and done, he'll still be standing."

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...ers/56671564/1

"If you ask anyone in our locker room who's the most underrated player, the most important player or the unsung hero of our team, it's Kevin," Texans quarterback Matt Schaub said. "Every time, hands down. No question."

Added Texans coach Gary Kubiak: "Kevin is just a solid player. He understands our offense to a T. He can play all over the place. He's always there, he never misses time, he never misses anything. He does a lot of dirty work. He's excellent in the run game. Kevin just kind of finds a way to do it."

...

While the statistics might ebb in one direction or the other, to Schaub they represent balance.
"We have a ton of weapons, and I don't think people really see that," he said. "They see a passing game, not an offense. They don't see the total package.

....

"Kevin may have a rough day or two out here at practice, but he's going to be here the whole camp," Kubiak said. "And when it's said and done, he'll still be standing."

Fantastic... he wins the nice guy award.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

Fantastic... he wins the nice guy award.

Like I said, I subscribe to NFL game rewind.

I was able to watch 9 games so far from last year, with the All-22 view, and the end zone view.

Walter is the #2 as Kubiak use him.

In Kubiak's terms, he wants another receiver to be use differently.
(Thus the 2A and 2B).

Walter is not going anywhere until another guy can prove he's able to do the things Kubiak wants Walter to do.

Subscribe to NFL Game Rewind and you can see all the details.
You will have a better-informed opinion.

[Dutchrudder]

^ That's all well and good, but if he's so great, then why did they ask him to cut his salary in half from 3 million to 1.5 this year? Apparently he didn't think he could get more elsewhere, or maybe winning and being a Texan are more important to him. In any case, I don't think Rick is going to ask OD, Manning, Myers, or Antonio to take a paycut without an extension.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

^ That's all well and good, but if he's so great, then why did they ask him to cut his salary in half from 3 million to 1.5 this year? Apparently he didn't think he could get more elsewhere, or maybe winning and being a Texan are more important to him. In any case, I don't think Rick is going to ask OD, Manning, Myers, or Antonio to take a paycut without an extension.

I would rather not going into guessing mode.

Who knows what's going on behind close doors.

There are plenty of things a guy can be compensated with.

We're living in a capitalist world.
Creative financing is something Bob McNair no doubt has mastered.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

lol

Blowing zone coverage is not exactly triple covering someone. It called bad defense and a blown assignment. We could've had any receiver out there and chances are they still would've blown the coverage. To try to use that play as a example that teams game plan for Walter or that he scares defenses is rediculous and disingenuous.

Speaking of that play.. it was the same play that Walter scored on against the Bengals.. and the coverage was blown on that play as well. Which speaks to the play itself and how well it's designed.

[Carr Bombed]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

^ That's all well and good, but if he's so great, then why did they ask him to cut his salary in half from 3 million to 1.5 this year? Apparently he didn't think he could get more elsewhere, or maybe winning and being a Texan are more important to him. In any case, I don't think Rick is going to ask OD, Manning, Myers, or Antonio to take a paycut without an extension.

If he's so great then why did Kubiak move Keshawn to the Z position when Andre returned (Walter's position) something tells me Walter is about to lose his job.

And everybody who thinks that this guy is the bee's knees or irreplaceable.. you really need to go pull up the production that other teams are getting from their #2s. Believe it or not.. other teams actually have a #2 wideout who can lead the team in receiving on any given Sunday.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

If he's so great then why did Kubiak move Keshawn to the Z position when Andre returned.. something tells me Walter is about to lose his job.

And everybody who thinks that this guy is the bee's knees or irreplaceable.. you really need to go pull up the production that other teams are getting from their #2s.

AJ, Walter, and JJ all played every different positions.

Most receivers in the NFL do, after a period of time.

They have to line up as the X, Z, in the slot, or in the common bunch (diamond) formation.

Different system/different coaches use their players differently.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I would rather not going into guessing mode.

Who knows what's going on behind close doors.

There are plenty of things a guy can be compensated with.

We're living in a capitalist world.
Creative financing is something Bob McNair no doubt has mastered.

Yeah, I'm not really guessing one way or the other on it, but it is highly unusual for a player to take an outright paycut. I can't think of anyone in the NFL who has done that in the last few years.

I think Walter has his place on this team and that he belongs, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking we can't upgrade him with some younger talent. I'm already liking Kmart more than I ever liked Walter, but we shall see how they pan out this season. There's plenty of room for all 5 WRs to be on this team.