Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Fair enough. As I alluded to above, I'm 50/50 on the idea. We'll see on the All-22, won't we?

When you subscribe to NFL Rewind, you get all the games from last year, too.
With the all-22 view and one end zone view on top of the normal broadcast view.

I did.
And I've seen Walter get open a pretty fair number of time but the QB didn't look his way (he was not the first read). Sometimes the first read was not open but the QBs forced the ball there while Walter was open. To be fair, sometimes the QBs didn't have enough time to go to the second read.

Yes, Walter did run his good shares of deep routes that pull the safety over such that the QB would go to the underneath receiver.

And yes, Walter was used to block a lot.
Even on passing plays, many times they called on him to block the back side DE or OLB on play action fake.
After he threw the cut block he would get up and started his route.
By then, the QB already found a target.

I remember for sure though, that one year (not last year), I had seen Walter got a catch out of that situation.

Walter is not going anywhere until another guy shows he can do all those things.

Originally Posted by Rey

They will probably keep 6 wr's.

From Kubiak's presser:
“He (Martin) made a nice play, I think third play of the game we hit him. I know he had one more catch, I know for sure, I’m not sure how many he had. He’s had a really good camp. I put him in a tough situation this week. I switched him from ‘X’ to ‘Z’, so I put a lot of pressure on him. He and (WR) Lestar (Jean) are going to have to know both spots and (WR DeVier) Posey, on gameday because you only suit four, sometimes five guys.

They'll keep Posey because they can't afford to look bad on the draft. Posey's lucky he got taken so high. We'll probably be singing his praises a year from now if the coaches bring him along like they seem to be able to do with slow developing guys.

[Bulls on Parade]

I would hate to think we wasted a third-round pick on DeVier Posey but the guy has not shown me anything at all. I have to watch old videos from 2009 just to see him looking like a legitimate prospect. I sure hope this man is hungry and ready to fight for a roster spot. He has two more pre-season games left. The Saints have a bad secondary so I expect him to make one or two plays on Saturday Night at the Superdome.

[Porky]

I'm supposed to trust the analysis of fans that can't seem to get a player's last name correct after a half dozen years?

My take is Walter definitely starts the year at #2. Not 100% sure he will finish there, but to start I have nearly zero doubt in my mind about that.

The real fight right now is between Martin and Jean for #3. My take is they end up splitting the #3 spot situationally (down,distance, play call, field position, etc) - as you have two completely different cats there physically. If one is too eventually beat out Walter, I'm thinking it's Jean - and it's not based on talent but on size, stature, weight - let's see if the guy can block. Until he can block well, it's Walter's job.

Posey makes the team as the #5 guy who slowly works into the rotation as he continues to grow in a pro WR, or takes a heavier load should an injury occur.

Holliday is #6, takes all the returns and works in on offense with a few trick plays, and maybe a screen or two over the year.

So this is the final roster at WR:

#1 - AJ
#2 - Walter
#3 - Jean
#4 - Martin
#5 - Posey
#6 - Holliday

[Goldensilence]

At this point KW is a larger version of David Anderson; can't get separation consistently and cannot make plays down field. He's probably better relegated to being a slot WR at this point where he can use his size to move the chains.

I think one thing is pretty clear; he doesn't belong outside at #2 and he's going to start losing PT to guys who are producing.


I Think the Texans brass wanted to keep him around for all the tag lines that people here use: leadership, RB, know system, ad naseum and because they were not sold on the young WRs (rightly so). However, the paycut he took seems to have a pretty clear message that he wasn't earning his keep on the field. I wonder had he refused the paycut if he would've been cut outright.

I think he stays this season, but next year he's likely going to get cut.

Posey looks like he was a reach and I think a lot of people's premonitions about it are being confirmed as the PS goes on. For better or worse barring not showing up at all, he's going to have a spot guaranteed because of where he was drafted.

[rmartin65]

Originally Posted by Porky

I'm supposed to trust the analysis of fans that can't seem to get a player's last name correct after a half dozen years?

My take is Walter definitely starts the year at #2. Not 100% sure he will finish there, but to start I have nearly zero doubt in my mind about that.

The real fight right now is between Martin and Jean for #3. My take is they end up splitting the #3 spot situationally (down,distance, play call, field position, etc) - as you have two completely different cats there physically. If one is too eventually beat out Walter, I'm thinking it's Jean - and it's not based on talent but on size, stature, weight - let's see if the guy can block. Until he can block well, it's Walter's job.

Posey makes the team as the #5 guy who slowly works into the rotation as he continues to grow in a pro WR, or takes a heavier load should an injury occur.

Holliday is #6, takes all the returns and works in on offense with a few trick plays, and maybe a screen or two over the year.

So this is the final roster at WR:

#1 - AJ
#2 - Walter
#3 - Jean
#4 - Martin
#5 - Posey
#6 - Holliday

I think this post, from the first word to the last, is 100% correct. Rep.

[burro]

Originally Posted by Rey

I doubt that.

Whats more effective for creating opportunities for other receivers?

A guy that shows he is a constant threat and pulls coverage no matter where he goes?

Or a guy that rarely catches passes?

Give me the guy that is actually a consistent threat to catch passed.

Other guys run routes to get guys open too, but since kw hardly does anything else folks just focus on his blocking and his "decoy ability".

I didn't hear much about how great a decoy od was last year when he cleared out that room for Walter to make the game winning catch against cincy.

You know why?

Because OD actually catches passes so you don't have to cling to some small thing he does as justification for him starting.

Kw was given his contract when he was catching passes. When he stopped doing that as effectively he was asked to take a pay cut.

The guy is a good wr, but all this blocking and decoying he does is not nearly as significant as a wr that can consistently make plays catching the ball.

This. Walter is steady and dependable, but he's not a playmaker and certainly not someone that opposing DCs put a lot of emphasis on when game planning. I would much rather have a big play threat opposite Andre, who has way more "decoy" potential than Walter if a legit playmaker is in the #2 position.

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade

I would hate to think we wasted a third-round pick on DeVier Posey...

Pretend Keyshawn Martin was out 3rd round pick and Posey was our late 4th round pick. Doesn't look that bad, now.

Either way, we got what we needed which is a borderline starter playmaker WR and a guy (LeStar) with some size behind AJ. Posey is a project, at this point, like Jean was. Let's hope we don't need him in 2012.

[TEXANRED]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

A third round draft pick is not going to the practice squad.

Said Charles Hill

[The Medic01]

Exactly. Lets examine why some want to keep Walter.

1. He can block. Well I saw KeyMart make a great downfield block Andre can definitely block and I honestly do not know about Jean.

2. He is a decoy. Well umm couldn't I just run a little slant route and they would have to cover me because I can actually catch if I am wide open. If I can do it I think KeyMart and Jean can as well.

3. He can move the chains on third down. I saw Jean do it twice Andre can do it very cnsistantly as can Foster and Daniels.

There is just nothing he does that our other offensive weapons can.

[The Medic01]

Edit I meant can't on that last word.

[76Texan]

Walter was trpled-covered on the TD to Jean.
The LB 54 and the both safeties formed a triangle around him.

He was open in the end zone just before that but Schaub had one of his rare miss in the game right there.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Walter was trpled-covered on the TD to Jean.

After reading the fan analysis on this site, I cannot imagine why any team would even cover Walter, much less triple cover him.

[rush2112mn]

I think one either Jean or Martin are pushing Walters on that 2nd spot. I dont see what is happening at training camp...the coaches are.....but from what I have seen during games.....I think it is up for grabs.......Any of the 3 have a shot at it......I want to see what happens at New Orleans next week......

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Walter was trpled-covered on the TD to Jean.
The LB 54 and the both safeties formed a triangle around him.

He was open in the end zone just before that but Schaub had one of his rare miss in the game right there.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

After reading the fan analysis on this site, I cannot imagine why any team would even cover Walter, much less triple cover him.

[Cjeremy635]

Originally Posted by The Medic01

Exactly. Lets examine why some want to keep Walter.

1. He can block. Well I saw KeyMart make a great downfield block Andre can definitely block and I honestly do not know about Jean.

2. He is a decoy. Well umm couldn't I just run a little slant route and they would have to cover me because I can actually catch if I am wide open. If I can do it I think KeyMart and Jean can as well.

3. He can move the chains on third down. I saw Jean do it twice Andre can do it very cnsistantly as can Foster and Daniels.

There is just nothing he does that our other offensive weapons can.

He caught the TD that put us into the playoffs for the 1st time in franchise history. That is something that no other receiver on the roster has done. Would AJ make that catch? 99% sure, but AJ was injured.

You're banking on a healthy AJ for an entire season. My gut tells me that may not be the case given his injury history over the last couple of seasons. So, you'd like to go into the season with 1 veteran receiver that has a good chance of getting injured? I don't think that's a smart call at all.

[Quick II Draw]

Originally Posted by Cjeremy635

He caught the TD that put us into the playoffs for the 1st time in franchise history. That is something that no other receiver on the roster has done. Would AJ make that catch? 99% sure, but AJ was injured.

You're banking on a healthy AJ for an entire season. My gut tells me that may not be the case given his injury history over the last couple of seasons. So, you'd like to go into the season with 1 veteran receiver that has a good chance of getting injured? I don't think that's a smart call at all.

The first paragraph is total nonsensical homerism. He should be a starter (or on the team) because...he caught an important pass in the team's history? Seriously? First of all, it wasn't even a particularly challenging catch. Even if it was, who cares? David Tyree was unceremoniously gone after his SUPER BOWL catch.

But yes, KW should make the final roster and should start if he's still the best WR2 or WR3. Behind him and AJ is nothing but practice squad players and rookies.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

There is no longer any reason why he should be the #2 WR any more.

Start Jean outside opposite Andre and make Keshawn the guy that you move in and out of the slot.

I don't think that Walter is that good in general. Never really have, but Jean has done nothing in the NFL yet. Having a strong pre season game is not a reason to make him an automatic starter. Let's see him wrecking shop in regular season and then we'll talk. Jacoby Jones looked like the 2nd coming of Desean Jackson when he played in pre season.

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Good point.
Lots of guys have looked good in preseason only to fade into obscurity. Let's see what happens when the games count. Might be a tad early to make this call...

Walter's presence is not one that does a thing to worry opposing defensive coordinators. I just laugh at the notion that Jean is this star in the making after one game where he looked great in the pre season. Pre season warriors appear on teams every year. Hopefully Jean can become a regular season warrior, but we'll wait and see what happens, before letting him take people's positions after one pre season game.

[drs23]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I don't think that Walter is that good in general. Never really have, but Jean has done nothing in the NFL yet. Having a strong pre season game is not a reason to make him an automatic starter. Let's see him wrecking shop in regular season and then we'll talk. Jacoby Jones looked like the 2nd coming of Desean Jackson when he played in pre season.




Walter's presence is not one that does a thing to worry opposing defensive coordinators. I just laugh at the notion that Jean is this star in the making after one game where he looked great in the pre season. Pre season warriors appear on teams every year. Hopefully Jean can become a regular season warrior, but we'll wait and see what happens, before letting him take people's positions after one pre season game.

Not to pick nits but...it's been two PS games now. Three if you count last year. He had two for fifty in the first game. One where he was defended pretty well. In two games he's had six receptions for 92 yards and averaged over 15 yards a catch. That's not too shabby.

Granted, it's only PS but that's what it's for. Evaluation. So far it seems as the folks that do the evaluating like what they see.

I, much like you and every other fan, hope to see Jean carry this production into the season. If he does then we can forget the Jacoby Jones comparisons. If not then the comparisons will have been valid.

Personally I think we're watching a receiver come into his own. On top of that he seems to be somewhat humble and I'll take that over Diva any day. (That's just my observation and not relevant to your post)

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Porky

I'm supposed to trust the analysis of fans that can't seem to get a player's last name correct after a half dozen years?

My take is Walter definitely starts the year at #2. Not 100% sure he will finish there, but to start I have nearly zero doubt in my mind about that.

The real fight right now is between Martin and Jean for #3. My take is they end up splitting the #3 spot situationally (down,distance, play call, field position, etc) - as you have two completely different cats there physically. If one is too eventually beat out Walter, I'm thinking it's Jean - and it's not based on talent but on size, stature, weight - let's see if the guy can block. Until he can block well, it's Walter's job.

Posey makes the team as the #5 guy who slowly works into the rotation as he continues to grow in a pro WR, or takes a heavier load should an injury occur.

Holliday is #6, takes all the returns and works in on offense with a few trick plays, and maybe a screen or two over the year.

So this is the final roster at WR:

#1 - AJ
#2 - Walter
#3 - Jean
#4 - Martin
#5 - Posey
#6 - Holliday

Agree completely...
At least at time point in time, the odd man out isn't Walter. It's Bryant.