Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-15-2012   #21
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,644
Rep Power: 295319 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

I just think some people are trying to convince themselves that Winston was worse than he is and the OL will be better off without him and Brisiel. If Caldwell was better than Brisiel, he would have beaten him out in one of the many opportunities he's gotten. If Butler was better than Winston, he would have been receiving the sort of playtime rotation that Caldwell was getting, or some sort of greater opportunity.

It's going to be an issue going forward. Luckily, the QB and RB will minimize the impact but when you get into tight spaces, that right side is going to come up short a lot more than Brisiel and Winston. JMO. We'll see.
__________________
A real MVP contributes in all phases of the game.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012   #22
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 53
Posts: 19,205
Rep Power: 353155 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I just think some people are trying to convince themselves that Winston was worse than he is and the OL will be better off without him and Brisiel.
I don't know. I didn't think Winston and Brisiel entered into this discussion at all; I didn't even think about them until you brought them up. I don't think anyone was comparing this against past performance and if anyone was, it wasn't putting the current right side of our line in a favorable light.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012   #23
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,644
Rep Power: 295319 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I don't know. I didn't think Winston and Brisiel entered into this discussion at all; I didn't even think about them until you brought them up. I don't think anyone was comparing this against past performance and if anyone was, it wasn't putting the current right side of our line in a favorable light.
General comment as it relates to people's perception of the current OL. I read all the offseason threads about Winston and Brisiel leaving, but didn't post in any of them. So I'm not commenting specific to this play, but more to the general opinion of the OL going forward. Obviously, that doesn't apply to everyone, but those that posted sunshine pollyanna crap about Butler being better than Winston know who they are.
__________________
A real MVP contributes in all phases of the game.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012   #24
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
General comment as it relates to people's perception of the current OL. I read all the offseason threads about Winston and Brisiel leaving, but didn't post in any of them. So I'm not commenting specific to this play, but more to the general opinion of the OL going forward. Obviously, that doesn't apply to everyone, but those that posted sunshine pollyanna crap about Butler being better than Winston know who they are.
None of those people has any post in this thread.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012   #25
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,568
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

BTW, this is a good example that offense can be designed to put a hat on a hat to run against a 9-man box (in short yardage situation.)

If Tate had stayed to the weak side, Myers would have been in good position to take on the MO (Kuechly) - even Rey saw it that way.

The MO would not have been FREE to make play.

The lead blocker, Casey, would take on the FS 43.

The MIKE 53, would have been more FREE to flow to the play as it would be quite difficult for Butler to get to him (again, even Rey saw it that way.)

Last edited by 76Texan; 08-15-2012 at 01:32 PM.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012   #26
Dutchrudder 
COOL BEANS!
 
Dutchrudder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston
Section: Fort Kickass
Age: 30
Posts: 15,063
Rep Power: 150980 Dutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Motion pictures!!!

__________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde
Dutchrudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012   #27
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 36,406
Rep Power: 325689 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I just think some people are trying to convince themselves that Winston was worse than he is and the OL will be better off without him and Brisiel. If Caldwell was better than Brisiel, he would have beaten him out in one of the many opportunities he's gotten. If Butler was better than Winston, he would have been receiving the sort of playtime rotation that Caldwell was getting, or some sort of greater opportunity.

It's going to be an issue going forward. Luckily, the QB and RB will minimize the impact but when you get into tight spaces, that right side is going to come up short a lot more than Brisiel and Winston. JMO. We'll see.
I didn't think anyone thought that at all, especially in the run game to the play side. That's where Winston earned his money. But I thought he had trouble against speed rushers & I bet he was responsible for more false starts than any of our other linemen.

I wasn't surprised at all that he got picked up as quickly as he did. But they were in a different position than we were as far as what they could afford on a right tackle.

Brisiel... I loved that motherpucker. Never said a bad word against him.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012   #28
dsorc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 292
Rep Power: 7032 dsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respecteddsorc is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Motion pictures!!!

GIF
Looking at the animation makes me give even more credit to Kuechly and the NT. Kuechly gets there so fast that Tate doesn't really have a chance to make a cut. The NT also beats Caldwell and is the second man on the tackle. On the positive side. I thought from the still pictures that Casey had been stuck to the other DL but the animation shows that he does move on to the second level. The lane on the left side was there, sort of, but the NT could still have made a play.
dsorc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012   #29
TejasTom
Heisenwatt
 
TejasTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pearland
Section: Brazos Suite
Posts: 1,483
Rep Power: 64171 TejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respectedTejasTom is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post
I bet he(Winston) was responsible for more false starts than any of our other linemen...
Brisiel... I loved that motherpucker. Never said a bad word against him.
This was my perception, but it is not true. It is worse, he has more holding.

Code:
Player         Hold       FS
Brisiel         2          5
Winston         5          2
Dreessen        2          3
So our top 3 penalty players on offense are gone. Entire list here: Link
__________________
"Success isn't owned. It's leased and rent is due every day." ~ J.J. Watt
TejasTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012   #30
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 53
Posts: 19,205
Rep Power: 353155 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasTom View Post
This was my perception, but it is not true. It is worse, he has more holding.

Code:
Player         Hold       FS
Brisiel         2          5
Winston         5          2
Dreessen        2          3
So our top 3 penalty players on offense are gone. Entire list here: Link
Love that database. Hadn't seen that before. Bookmarked it.

MSR.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012   #31
disaacks3
Site Contributor
 
disaacks3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spring, TX
Section: 116 - Row M
Age: 45
Posts: 10,905
Rep Power: 159792 disaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 3 & Out Play Analysis: Log Jam On 2nd & Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
Luke Kuechly, rookie #59, is going to be a great NFL LB.

In the very next play, which was a 3rd and goal from their own 3...a play I did a 3 & Out analysis on in another thread...he got burned by Owen Daniels and OD was going to catch a TD from Schaub, but still...Kuechly is the real deal.

He wears #59, appropriately enough.
He might be great eventually, but one game doesn't make/break...good thing for him. In pass coverage, he was as big a liability as he was a plus in the run. Big gains to OD and KM were due to misreads / being out of position by Kuechly.
__________________
D.B. - That sounds like a nugget of reality wrapped in a layer of embellished hyperbole.
disaacks3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger