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Old 08-12-2012   #181
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Reading comprehension is needed.

I said Walter was the top WR.. as in the leader of his position group with Johnson out or banged up most of the year. The fact that he was only targeted 59 times under those circumstances is appauling and proves my point... the fact that burress was targeted as much as he was also proves my point. One player is getting open and creating opportunities to receive the ball and the other is not. So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.
Not only that, but you also have to factor in who is throwing him the ball. Targets don't mean anything. If you have an inaccurate QB like Sanchez its a flawed statistic.
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Old 08-12-2012   #182
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Reading comprehension is needed.

I said Walter was the top WR.. as in the leader of his position group with Johnson out or banged up most of the year. The fact that he was only targeted 59 times under those circumstances is appauling and proves my point... the fact that burress was targeted as much as he was also proves my point. One player is getting open and creating opportunities to receive the ball and the other is not. So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.
It doesn't make a difference if he is the top WR on the depth chart or not. What matters is efficiency. Every NFL offense is not run the same and the top WR on the depth chart is often not the top target on the team throughout a season. This cannot get any easier for you to understand. I have broken it down for you in several different ways, with several different sites all showing you the same thing.

The fact that you think that Plaxico is getting open more shows you are not watching or are not comprehending what you are watching. Plaxico did not get open nearly enough for the Jets and he was not resigned, accordingly. Where is his contract again? Why hasn't anyone picked him up if he is creating so many opportunities and getting open so often?

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So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.
Where do you get off saying this?

39 catches vs 45 catches with less than 60% of the targets.

Common sense is needed.
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Old 08-12-2012   #183
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Not only that, but you also have to factor in who is throwing him the ball. Targets don't mean anything. If you have an inaccurate QB like Sanchez its a flawed statistic.
Plaxico Burress in 2008: 35 catches on 66 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2007: 70 catches on 141 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2006: 63 catches on 124 targets.

This is not the first time this has happened with Plaxico. It's just worse now than ever, as you would expect from an aging receiver.

Keep trying guys.
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Old 08-12-2012   #184
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Plaxico Burress in 2008: 35 catches on 66 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2007: 70 catches on 141 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2006: 63 catches on 124 targets.

This is not the first time this has happened with Plaxico. It's just worse now than ever, as you would expect from an aging receiver.

Keep trying guys.
Larry Johnson also had more yards in a season than Emmitt Smith ever had. Does that mean he's a better player than him? The stats you pulled up show that Plax played with a young and still sometimes erratic Eli. You need to step your game up son. That targets stat means nothing. Catchable balls is a much better stat. A guy can get a target when the QB throws the ball away.
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Old 08-12-2012   #185
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Plaxico Burress in 2008: 35 catches on 66 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2007: 70 catches on 141 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2006: 63 catches on 124 targets.

This is not the first time this has happened with Plaxico. It's just worse now than ever, as you would expect from an aging receiver.

Keep trying guys.
Can you locate these statistics for both AJ and KW for comparisons sake ??I know both are at the top of the league in completion percentage on targets balls. Not sure that Plaxico would compare favorably ....


With the way Keshawn Martin has shown thus far .... Reciever may not be a real worry spot.
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Old 08-12-2012   #186
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Larry Johnson also had more yards in a season than Emmitt Smith ever had. Does that mean he's a better player than him? The stats you pulled up show that Plax played with a young and still sometimes erratic Eli. You need to step your game up son. That targets stat means nothing. Catchable balls is a much better stat. A guy can get a target when the QB throws the ball away.
Walter played with Yates for a good portion of the season. What's your point?

Excuses, excuses.

Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.
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Old 08-12-2012   #187
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Walter played with Yates for a good portion of the season. What's your point?

Excuses, excuses.

Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.
My point is Yates is a more accurate QB. Sanchez is terribly inaccurate. Eli is incredibly erratic. If a QB gets a hurry and throws a ball to a receiver and it hits the ground then its a target. You're bringing flawed statistics to the table. I watched every snap of the jets last year. Was Plax great? No. But he gave them some good play. Sanchez was terrible last year and he'll never be good. The guy can't read a defense. You place Plax with an accurate QB and I guarantee that statistic is different. Step your game up son!
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Old 08-12-2012   #188
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Can you locate these statistics for both AJ and KW for comparisons sake ??I know both are at the top of the league in completion percentage on targets balls. Not sure that Plaxico would compare favorably ....


With the way Keshawn Martin has shown thus far .... Reciever may not be a real worry spot.
Andre Johnson in 2008: 115 catches on 170 targets.

Andre Johnson in 2007: 60 catches on 86 targets.

Andre Johnson in 2006: 103 catches on 166 targets.


Kevin Walter in 2008: 60 catches on 95 targets.

Kevin Walter in 2007: 65 catches on 106 targets.

Kevin Walter in 2006: 17 catches on 21 targets. This was his first year with the Texans and he played sparingly, as I am sure we all remember.

Lets put the 2009 stats out there to show 3 seasons with a fair sample size.

Kevin Walter in 2009: 53 catches on 70 targets.
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Old 08-12-2012   #189
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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My point is Yates is a more accurate QB. Sanchez is terribly inaccurate. Eli is incredibly erratic. If a QB gets a hurry and throws a ball to a receiver and it hits the ground then its a target. You're bringing flawed statistics to the table. I watched every snap of the jets last year. Was Plax great? No. But he gave them some good play. Sanchez was terrible last year and he'll never be good. The guy can't read a defense. You place Plax with an accurate QB and I guarantee that statistic is different. Step your game up son!
While I agree that Sanchez is not a good QB, we will have to agree to disagree about Plax at this point of his career. His game was declining even before he shot himself.

It seems rather simple to see when watching him and when researching him, but you are obviously entitled to your opinion.

You should also go back to the 2006, 2007, 2008 New York Giant seasons and you will see that Eli every other receiver on the team caught passes at a higher rate per target than Plaxico. I don't feel like posting it all here at this time.

Going to bed. Wake me up when Plaxico has a job again.
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Old 08-12-2012   #190
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
It doesn't make a difference if he is the top WR on the depth chart or not. What matters is efficiency. Every NFL offense is not run the same and the top WR on the depth chart is often not the top target on the team throughout a season. This cannot get any easier for you to understand. I have broken it down for you in several different ways, with several different sites all showing you the same thing.
Actually you haven't broken anything down... all you've done is make excuses for Kevin Walter which now includes that it's the offenses fault that he doesn't get more targets Funny how back in the late 90's I remember the same OC killing it with Ed McCaffrey and Rod Smith..

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The fact that you think that Plaxico is getting open more shows you are not watching or are not comprehending what you are watching. Plaxico did not get open nearly enough for the Jets and he was not resigned, accordingly. Where is his contract again? Why hasn't anyone picked him up if he is creating so many opportunities and getting open so often?
No the fact that you think that Plaxico is not getting open more shows that you are not comprehending your own stats. Here's a hint.. If a guy is targeted almost twice as much as another player... I think it's safe to assume that said player is getting open more.


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Where do you get off saying this?

39 catches vs 45 catches with less than 60% of the targets.

Common sense is needed.
Easy, I get off saying that because it's the truth. I don't really care if Walter catches ever pass thrown his way. When he's only averaging about two receptions per game he isn't getting it done and can seriously be upgraded. Last I checked we don't run a wish bone offense.

And here's how bad your stat argument is. According to you, Walter is a better player than Brandon Lloyd.. who like Burress was also in the 40 percentile of reception rates.

Look I like Kevin Walter and appreciate his run blocking... really do. But the fact is, he's not a very good #2 WR and can easily be upgraded. Last I checked he has WR listed next to his name and his main job is to get open and catch passes. If all we want him to do is run block then we might as well make Casey a WR, because I'm sure he can even get open more often.
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Old 08-12-2012   #191
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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You don't have to believe me so by all means believe the ESPN reporter. Guys like Plax don't play 10 plus years with a piss poor work ethic though. (
Once more, where does the bolded come from? He was in the joint for two seasons.

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Walter played with Yates for a good portion of the season. What's your point?

Excuses, excuses.

Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.
Me too...

Visited the Pats today. Haven't heard a word about a contract. Yet...
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Old 08-13-2012   #192
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Once more, where does the bolded come from? He was in the joint for two seasons.



Me too...

Visited the Pats today. Haven't heard a word about a contract. Yet...
Plaxico has played 10 years in the league. What are you talking about?
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Old 08-13-2012   #193
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Can you locate these statistics for both AJ and KW for comparisons sake ??I know both are at the top of the league in completion percentage on targets balls. Not sure that Plaxico would compare favorably ....
Over the time period provided AJ is 66% completions on targets, KW is 64% and Plax is 51%.
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Old 08-13-2012   #194
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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And here's how bad your stat argument is. According to you, Walter is a better player than Brandon Lloyd.. who like Burress was also in the 40 percentile of reception rates.
This is my last response I will give before I get to bed. Brandon Lloyd is one of the worst WRs in terms of this statistic, so nice choice of WR to use as a comparison. I would argue that Brandon Lloyd is HIGHLY overrated. He had one year in which he had gaudy statistics when he played for the gimmicky Broncos. He had 77 catches on 150 targets. That's not very efficient.

The point is that alot of guys can put up big numbers when they are thrown the ball that many times. Football is about efficiency, you don't get to throw the ball until you score. I will keep saying that until you finally get it, hopefully that is sometime this year.
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Old 08-13-2012   #195
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

Here's a stat for all the stat jockeys.. (was just listed on ESPN) Burress was top 10 in the NFL in 3 catagories..

Red zone targets
Red zone receptions (hmm I guess he catches it when it really matters)
And
Red zone TDs

Quick can somebody please tell me where Walter ranked in those catagories last year? But it's okay, I mean it's not like we historically have had issues in the red zone or anything.
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Old 08-13-2012   #196
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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This is my last response I will give before I get to bed. Brandon Lloyd is one of the worst WRs in terms of this statistic, so nice choice of WR to use as a comparison. I would argue that Brandon Lloyd is HIGHLY overrated. He had one year in which he had gaudy statistics when he played for the gimmicky Broncos. He had 77 catches on 150 targets. That's not very efficient.

The point is that alot of guys can put up big numbers when they are thrown the ball that many times. Football is about efficiency, you don't get to throw the ball until you score. I will keep saying that until you finally get it, hopefully that is sometime this year.
Lol so now Kevin Walter is > than Brandon Lloyd?
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Old 08-13-2012   #197
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

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Here's a stat for all the stat jockeys.. (was just listed on ESPN) Burress was top 10 in the NFL in 3 catagories..

Red zone targets
Red zone receptions (hmm I guess he catches it when it really matters)
And
Red zone TDs

Quick can somebody please tell me where Walter ranked in those catagories last year? But it's okay, I mean it's not like we have historically had issues in the red zone or anything.
Dude what are you doing bringing logic into this debate?
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Old 08-13-2012   #198
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

This is honestly stupid regarding targets. Some receivers get short quick passes, screens, and hitches while others get a lot of targets downfield. Plax has always been the type of receiver who gets a lot of targets downfield. So if a receiver gets a bunch of screens thrown his way and has a higher percentage he's better? Its a dumb argument to make.
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Old 08-13-2012   #199
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Default Re: Plaxico Burress Rumored to be Considered by Texans?

The clincher for me is that the guys who had him and saw him all of last season, the Jets, let him walk.

That, IMHO, is a loud, clear, unarguable message. No team lets a valued piece of their offense walk. Especially one who is, by some accounts I've seen in this thread, was "productive" in the scoring zone and is willing to sign - again, if you believe the rumors - is willing to sign for league minimum.

And when you look at the Jets' depth chart at WR you see Santonio Holmes and a bunch of whodats. So if Burress is still "all that" why didn't the Jets re-sign him? ...especially at league min??
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Old 08-13-2012   #200
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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
This is my last response I will give before I get to bed. Brandon Lloyd is one of the worst WRs in terms of this statistic, so nice choice of WR to use as a comparison. I would argue that Brandon Lloyd is HIGHLY overrated. He had one year in which he had gaudy statistics when he played for the gimmicky Broncos. He had 77 catches on 150 targets. That's not very efficient.

The point is that alot of guys can put up big numbers when they are thrown the ball that many times. Football is about efficiency, you don't get to throw the ball until you score. I will keep saying that until you finally get it, hopefully that is sometime this year.
I don't get your point.

Actually I don't understand the whole targets vs. Catches argument when it pertains to judging wr's. Actually it's a little silly

If we use that stat then Steve Johnson, Pierre garçon and Dwayne bowe are all about the same caliber of wr as Calvin Johnson.

Take it a step further and Andre and Kevin Walter are basically on the same level.

Targets and receptions has as much and in some cases more to do with the qb and style of offense being run as the receiver.

If a qb is not good and constantly forces the ball to a guy in bad coverage or overthrows a guy or throws a picks when he's trying to hit a guy am I supposed to believe that is a negative on the received because he was targeted and didn't get a reception? That's asinine.
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