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Old 08-02-2012   #41
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

You can bet Andre Johnson would like to be as durable as Kevin Walter.
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Old 08-02-2012   #42
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
You can bet Andre Johnson would like to be as durable as Kevin Walter.
Walter doesn't take near the hits and collisions that Andre has had to absorb over the years. Not really a fair comparison.
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Old 08-02-2012   #43
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Posey can stretch the field and he runs good route and has good hands.
Those are some qualifications for a #1.
He does have potential.

However, to ask a third round pick to fulfill that role is way too much.
Exactly, especially a third rounder from Lane college, or a street FA cut from someone's bench.

When Ochocinco couldn't make the game, who stepped up, the #2 WR (wHosYormama) or Chris Henry?

When Marvin Harrison didn't make the game, who stepped up? the #2 WR (Wayne) or whoever their third WR was?

I'm not opposed to KDub being the best possesion WR in the league..... but that's Ricky Proehl, behind Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, & Az Hakeem.
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Old 08-02-2012   #44
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by rush2112mn View Post
Kevin Walter does not get enough credit for the job he does.....He may not get the receiving yards....but he does the stuff to get other players open on this team. He is respected by his teammates for his work ethic.
Let's make him a blocking TE & call it a day.
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Old 08-02-2012   #45
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Let's make him a blocking TE & call it a day.
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Old 08-02-2012   #46
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
How many teams have a possession receiver that is a play-maker? And I distinctly remember him MAKING A PLAY last season that was huge in securing our playoff spot.

When you have our starting QB, starting all pro WR, and coaching staff singing praise for the guy, I don't see "coddling". That just comes across as hating on the guy for wanting him to be something that he's never been and was never billed to be.
No, we want him to play the position he is suited for..... slot WR, #3 WR.

Jumping on Jacoby for not being a #1 WR while KDub remains in obscurity, that's hating.
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Old 08-02-2012   #47
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by BCRich View Post
No, we want him to play the position he is suited for..... slot WR, #3 WR.

Jumping on Jacoby for not being a #1 WR while KDub remains in obscurity, that's hating.
That's what I've wondered for a while. JJ deserved all of the criticism he got for years, but why on earth Walter somehow freed himself of it is beyond me. Sure he blocks, has pretty good hands and all, but what about getting open and being consistent? Walter has been just as much of a disappointment in the grand scheme of things if you ask me. Been here longer, been in the league longer, and has had a lot more trust from the coaching staff over the years. He had one very good year here as our #2, but other than that, he has just been an average player.
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Old 08-02-2012   #48
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
You can bet Andre Johnson would like to be as durable as Kevin Walter.
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Walter doesn't take near the hits and collisions that Andre has had to absorb over the years. Not really a fair comparison.
Yes AND not necessarily.

As a slot receiver, you have safeties and linebackers attacking you. I am not discounting the physical play of corners and one safety "that always know and targets" where AJ is on the field.

AJ's issues have been more about his own body effin' with because there's no DB in the league that will knock him out.
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Old 08-02-2012   #49
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Yes AND not necessarily.

As a slot receiver, you have safeties and linebackers attacking you. I am not discounting the physical play of corners and one safety "that always know and targets" where AJ is on the field.

AJ's issues have been more about his own body effin' with because there's no DB in the league that will knock him out.
I think the point was that Aj catches a lot more balls than KW..... so he gets tackled more often.
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Old 08-02-2012   #50
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

Love Kevin Walter. One of, if not the most unsung players on our team every year.

Good blocking, good route runner, tough as hell, comes through when called upon. I seriously couldn't imagine not having him on this team. Personally, I think he's underutilized.
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Old 08-02-2012   #51
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
That's what I've wondered for a while. JJ deserved all of the criticism he got for years, but why on earth Walter somehow freed himself of it is beyond me. Sure he blocks, has pretty good hands and all, but what about getting open and being consistent? Walter has been just as much of a disappointment in the grand scheme of things if you ask me. Been here longer, been in the league longer, and has had a lot more trust from the coaching staff over the years. He had one very good year here as our #2, but other than that, he has just been an average player.
30-286-0 vs. 65-800-4
32-386-2 vs. 60-899-8
39-426-0 vs. 53-611-2
28-204-0 vs. 51-621-5
49-518-1 vs. 39-474-3

JJ got criticism because he had all the talent in the world and only had 1 season where he out-performed KW. Jacoby's best season was only slightly better than KW's worst.

KW had two really good seasons where he caught anything that was thrown to him. In 2007 and 2008, he was money. And a lot of people remember that. But he hasn't been as good the past 3 years.

KW is a player who is in his niche. Regardless of any great receivers we end up with, KW's going to have a spot and he's going to get minutes because he's like another tight end out there and that's what this offense is based on. Like you said, he's not really a #2 per se. KW is our number 3 and he pretty much has been since 2009.

The problem is that we haven't had a #2 since 2008 when KW was making plays. The crazy thing is that this offense has run like a top even without that secondary threat.

But in name, KW is the #2 guy because he's the second best, second most important receiver on the team.
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Old 08-02-2012   #52
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
Love Kevin Walter. One of, if not the most unsung players on our team every year.

Good blocking, good route runner, tough as hell, comes through when called upon. I seriously couldn't imagine not having him on this team. Personally, I think he's underutilized.
In all actuality, KW has had a pretty good career with the Texans considering we're a team that employs a FB (ie., stressing the running game), 2 and 3-TE sets.

The only "down" year was last year, where due to the partials facts that Schaub went down and AJ went down, the emergence of Tate on top Foster (especially as a receiver out the backfield), a couple of very capable catching TEs, not to mention the versatile Casey.

(Insert TPN's summary of the stats here)

The guys that we really targeted in the passing game (when they were healthy) were AJ, OD, and Foster.

It's not so much that any guy was under-utilized (even though cases can certainly be made), but I think it's more of a case with Kukiak looking for a "happy medium" in the sense of giving the team the best chance to win games.

For the most part, I think Kubiak is a "percentage" guy who believes in sound football fundamentals.

Who can blames him?

It's a good, consistent system that can move the ball and can score.
It can deal with pressure against the passing game.
It also chew out the clock to give the defense the needed rest.

Some of the players, depending on the particular year, due to the make-up of the team have to stay as role players.
That's the way it is.

When AJ's time come to retire, his salary will be enough that eventually we can bring in another receiver to take his place; it won't be easy, but with that money, it's not hard to think that we can find at least a decent replacement.

In the meantime, we can hope that a young guy can step up and save us some money so we can be more flexible with cap room regarding that position in the future when we need to replace AJ.
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Old 08-02-2012   #53
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Examples please...?
And I mean guys we had a shot to get...

I mean would you rather have drafted a KW replacement unit with one of our 1sts or keep who we drafted -- Mercilus, or Watt, or Cushing (yes, I purposely omitted K.Jackson)...

...or would you rather have to pay through the nose to sign some "name" vet. And I can't think of anyone we can afford or who wouldn't have put us much deeper in salary cap hell...

I guess my bottom line question is... who would you erase from the roster to get the KW replacement unit? And who would that guy be?
I would've given up the draft picks used to pick Posey/Crick and next yrs 3rd to trade up and pick Stephen Hill.

Hill has unreal ability and for some reason I'm just not a believer in Posey. I hope I'm wrong on Posey. They need Posey to light it up this yr if AJ only plays 8-10 games.

BTW, Walter is a good WR3 and a great guy to have on the team.
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Old 08-02-2012   #54
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Last year kubiak basically admitted that kw was not a number 2 receiver when he said that if you combined Walter and jacoby you'd have a really good number two....or something like that.

Kw needs to step up his receiving game or look to be replaced. It's really as simple as that.
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Old 08-02-2012   #55
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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This^^^

He's not flashy or anything but he brings his lunch pail and goes to work. He took a salary cut for the team. And I'm sure some will say it was that or "hit the road" but do we KNOW that? Has anyone from the Smithiak camp come out and SAID that?

I totally agree with Thorn, someone will have to be pretty good to take away his job. Maybe in a couple of years one of the current crop of kids...
I don't think anyone NEEDS to come out and say it. When your boss asks you to take a pay cut...what's the underlying implication?

I don't think its that anyone like Texcutioner doesn't LIKE Walter or the effort he brings to the table and all the small things he does. It's just that usually those kind of guys at WR are #3's or are slot receivers, not outside.

WR has become what the RB position was for years and then became safety. Glaring need that even casual fans notice, but the FO doesn't seem to care to do enough to TRUELY address.

Do I HOPE these three young guys work out at WR? Most definitely, it's possible our season depends on getting some kind of big play from one of the three every week.

My bigger concern is that this current staff has NEVER developed even a decent WR.... I hope these guys break that trend.
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Old 08-02-2012   #56
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
These are all valid points, but at the end of the day Walter is our #2 WR on the depth chart. He is the 2nd option in our passing game as far as the WR's go. He is a guy who simply is average man. Is his blocking average? No, but you don't continue to keep a guy in your important offensive plans that much for years because of his blocking and his great attitude. There are lots of players with a great attitude around the league and a lot of guys that can also bring a better dynamic to an offense than what Walter can at this point. He has served his purpose here, but at the end of the day there isn't a team in the league that worries about Walter on any Sunday. We have had plenty of opportunities to upgrade this WR core, and at some point the Texans need to abandon this boyscout only mentality for their roster and start considering other guys who can contribute more potentially.




That is definitely true. Take Welker for example. Great WR. One of the best in the league, but I don't think for a second that he'd be a dynamic WR on just any team without a guy like Brady or Brees throwing to him in a system where that fits Welker's skills. Welker could not easily be replaced in NE's system though. Walter could easily be replaced in ours though.
Well, a lot of us in the mock draft area was looking to find a good receiver in the draft to possibly groom as a replacement for AJ eventually.

We discusses the possibilty of another veteran WR as well.

Having an immediate-producing veteran that fits this system would cost money that I don't think we have (I'm not a cap expert, but there are guys on here who are really good).

There a good receivers out there that won't want to "really" block hard for the RBs, I can guarantee that.

Lots of nuances to cover.

It's not the simple matter about a guy who can make some plays.
It's not Madden where you can plug in any guy you like and can be sure that it will work.

Again, I understand that you - just like any of us, really - want to upgrade each and every position.

I'm looking as well, but IMO, I don't think it's time for KW yet.
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Old 08-02-2012   #57
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Jacoby was actually a good blocker too.

Actually I can actually recall a few times where jacoby was visibly affecting a play with his downfield blocking.

That wasn't enough to keep him around though.
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Old 08-02-2012   #58
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Last year kubiak basically admitted that kw was not a number 2 receiver when he said that if you combined Walter and jacoby you'd have a really good number two....or something like that.

Kw needs to step up his receiving game or look to be replaced. It's really as simple as that.
Honestly, I don't remember this quote, but it is the most accurate analysis that I have read in this thread. those guys were 2A/2B for a couple of years for a reason.
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Old 08-02-2012   #59
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Jacoby was actually a good blocker too.

Actually I can actually recall a few times where jacoby was visibly affecting a play with his downfield blocking.

That wasn't enough to keep him around though.
Jacoby's problems were his hands (which I had mentioned from the very first TC when I first saw him) and his lack of concentration (which is well-known over the years).
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Old 08-02-2012   #60
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Last year kubiak basically admitted that kw was not a number 2 receiver when he said that if you combined Walter and jacoby you'd have a really good number two....or something like that.

Kw needs to step up his receiving game or look to be replaced. It's really as simple as that.
Kw just lacks the speed necessary to stretch the field, no problem with hands or ability to run the routes or make the blocks.
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