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Old 08-02-2012   #21
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Kevin Walter doesn't suck. That said his competition at the spot has been jacoby jones and now a bunch of rookies and udfa's.

If the texans had drafted or signed a legit wr kw likely would have been on the bench.

It can be said that they have not addressed the wr spot because of kw, but I just think we've adressed issues that were more pressing.

Kw would be an excellent 3rd or 4th wr. Personally I'd rather have another guy be the #2 that can actually play spot duty as the #1 in the very likely event Andre misses some time.

I guess my biggest problem with kw is andre's health if that makes any sense.

I love kw. I hope he has a big year because despite his drop in numbers he's not a bad wr. I just don't know if it's going to play out like that.
Exactly. Walter is #2 but not a #2 if you know what I'm saying. If AJ and I are the only two receivers on a team, I am WR2.
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Old 08-02-2012   #22
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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I don't think anyone currently on the roster has true #1 potential. I think Posey can be a great pro but he's better fit for a #2 spot and I think can be great in that role down the line. The jury is out on Lestar Jean and i usually refrain from talking about him because i've seen next to nothing outside of one or two preseason catches. Martin looks like a lethal future slot guy for us.
Posey can stretch the field and he runs good route and has good hands.
Those are some qualifications for a #1.
He does have potential.

However, to ask a third round pick to fulfill that role is way too much.

I will be happy if he can replace Walter in a few years.
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Old 08-02-2012   #23
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

And KW plays a big role in the running game too. With a stud #1 and some TEs that can do some damage, I'll take what KW brings all day long. As others have said, it's when that stud #1 goes down, it's not going to be KW stepping in. He's just not that guy.
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Old 08-02-2012   #24
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

He caught THE pass!!! Enough said.
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Old 08-02-2012   #25
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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He caught THE pass!!! Enough said.
Thank you El Tejano. He did indeed. I wish my last year's games hadn't been erased. I can't find that whole game on Youtube. I'd really like to watch the whole thing again.
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Old 08-02-2012   #26
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Examples please...?
And I mean guys we had a shot to get...

I mean would you rather have drafted a KW replacement unit with one of our 1sts or keep who we drafted -- Mercilus, or Watt, or Cushing (yes, I purposely omitted K.Jackson)...

...or would you rather have to pay through the nose to sign some "name" vet. And I can't think of anyone we can afford or who wouldn't have put us much deeper in salary cap hell...

I guess my bottom line question is... who would you erase from the roster to get the KW replacement unit? And who would that guy be?
I don't think you can make such a statement and then say whoopsies on KJ. Demaryius Thomas instead of Kareem. Also, Mohammed Sanu in 3rd round rather than Posey.
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Old 08-02-2012   #27
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Posey can stretch the field and he runs good route and has good hands.
Those are some qualifications for a #1.
He does have potential.

However, to ask a third round pick to fulfill that role is way too much.

I will be happy if he can replace Walter in a few years.
I think Posey was drafted to replace Jacoby not Walter.
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Old 08-02-2012   #28
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

Enough with the BS and the coddling of Walter.

Walter is below average. People can bring up all of these little things he does like blocking, working hard, and running the routes that he supposed to run, but he is not a play maker. He has had one good season here with the Texans. At this point in his career he is a really bad #2 WR that should have been replaced at least two seasons ago along with Jacoby Jones.
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Old 08-02-2012   #29
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Thumbs up Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

Kevin Walter does not get enough credit for the job he does.....He may not get the receiving yards....but he does the stuff to get other players open on this team. He is respected by his teammates for his work ethic.
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Old 08-02-2012   #30
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Kevin Walter does not get enough credit for the job he does.....He may not get the receiving yards....but he does the stuff to get other players open on this team. He is respected by his teammates for his work ethic.
That, to me, is important. Walter is not going to suddenly transform himself into an all-pro, and we all know it. But he's good at what he does. And like I said earlier, that doesn't mean he can't be beaten out for his slot. He ain't the best #2 in the league, but for our purposes, he does what he's supposed to do. We just are not stacked at the reciever position like we are at RB and TE, that's just a fact.
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Old 08-02-2012   #31
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Kevin Walter does not get enough credit for the job he does.....He may not get the receiving yards....but he does the stuff to get other players open on this team. He is respected by his teammates for his work ethic.
Oh yes he does. He gets way to much credit. No one is interested in having a #2 WR on your team that isn't a play maker. You can find tons of lunch pale guys who can block and do other things in this league. The Texans need a play maker at the #2 spot. Walter shouldn't be anywhere higher than the #3 spot on our WR roster. This is a typical player that people would laugh at if he played for the Jags or the Titans.
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Old 08-02-2012   #32
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

How many teams have a possession receiver that is a play-maker? And I distinctly remember him MAKING A PLAY last season that was huge in securing our playoff spot.

When you have our starting QB, starting all pro WR, and coaching staff singing praise for the guy, I don't see "coddling". That just comes across as hating on the guy for wanting him to be something that he's never been and was never billed to be.
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Old 08-02-2012   #33
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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How many teams have a possession receiver that is a play-maker? And I distinctly remember him MAKING A PLAY last season that was huge in securing our playoff spot.

When you have our starting QB, starting all pro WR, and coaching staff singing praise for the guy, I don't see "coddling". That just comes across as hating on the guy for wanting him to be something that he's never been and was never billed to be.
Thanks DB, great post.

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Old 08-02-2012   #34
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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How many teams have a possession receiver that is a play-maker? And I distinctly remember him MAKING A PLAY last season that was huge in securing our playoff spot.

When you have our starting QB, starting all pro WR, and coaching staff singing praise for the guy, I don't see "coddling". That just comes across as hating on the guy for wanting him to be something that he's never been and was never billed to be.
He is a #3 to #4 guy at this point of his career. He had one really solid season for the Texans as a #2 WR. That's it. If you want to call it hating than fine, I'm hating, but that sounds lazy. That word itself really needs to be abolished, because people misuse it to frequently. Someone criticizes a player they like, and they just come back saying "you're hating". I find that to be lazy. If I came in here and started criticizing Foster for all of these random things, than that would be a little understandable, but Walter?? Lol! Come on man, at this point in his career he is no different than the kid that gets a starting QB position because his dad is the coach in Little League.

There are plenty of teams that have play making WR's at the #2 position. I didn't say that the Texans needed a #1 WR at the #2 position. Just that they needed a play making WR at the #2 position. If AJ gets hurt again, Walter is incapable of being anything that can make teams even wince at our passing attack. Walter is average and nothing more. He is one of those typical guys that only gets praised around here because he is a Texan and has played here for a few years and is a nice guy. No one would even bat an eye at him if he played somewhere else. He isn't even relevant at this point honestly.
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Old 08-02-2012   #35
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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He is a #3 to #4 guy at this point of his career. He had one really solid season for the Texans as a #2 WR. That's it. If you want to call it hating than fine, I'm hating, but that sounds lazy. That word itself really needs to be abolished, because people misuse it to frequently. Someone criticizes a player they like, and they just come back saying "you're hating". I find that to be lazy. If I came in here and started criticizing Foster for all of these random things, than that would be a little understandable, but Walter?? Lol! Come on man, at this point in his career he is no different than the kid that gets a starting QB position because his dad is the coach in Little League.

There are plenty of teams that have play making WR's at the #2 position. I didn't say that the Texans needed a #1 WR at the #2 position. Just that they needed a play making WR at the #2 position. If AJ gets hurt again, Walter is incapable of being anything that can make teams even wince at our passing attack. Walter is average and nothing more. He is one of those typical guys that only gets praised around here because he is a Texan and has played here for a few years and is a nice guy. No one would even bat an eye at him if he played somewhere else. He isn't even relevant at this point honestly.
All I read was the bolded part, because that's all I need to see that you're a hater.
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Old 08-02-2012   #36
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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All I read was the bolded part, because that's all I need to see that you're a hater.
I like Walter though man. Good guy and a hard worker, no question. This isn't about giving out medals for sportsmanship even though that seems to be more important to many fans in Houston. This is about trying to put the best team together that you can while you are in that small window to compete for a SB. Walter and Jacoby should have been replaced two seasons ago.
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Old 08-02-2012   #37
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

Yates to Walter. TD!!! = Texans playoff birth.

Walter is big, strong and tough. A perfect slot receiver. I'm not sure who the folks are that criticize him are, but maybe they should understand what a slot receiver does.

The only thing the Texans need is a receiver in a 3 receiver set that can be a deep threat opposite of Andre and G*d forbid if Andre goes down, become the #1.
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Old 08-02-2012   #38
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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He is a #3 to #4 guy at this point of his career. He had one really solid season for the Texans as a #2 WR. That's it. If you want to call it hating than fine, I'm hating, but that sounds lazy. That word itself really needs to be abolished, because people misuse it to frequently. Someone criticizes a player they like, and they just come back saying "you're hating". I find that to be lazy. If I came in here and started criticizing Foster for all of these random things, than that would be a little understandable, but Walter?? Lol! Come on man, at this point in his career he is no different than the kid that gets a starting QB position because his dad is the coach in Little League.

There are plenty of teams that have play making WR's at the #2 position. I didn't say that the Texans needed a #1 WR at the #2 position. Just that they needed a play making WR at the #2 position. If AJ gets hurt again, Walter is incapable of being anything that can make teams even wince at our passing attack. Walter is average and nothing more. He is one of those typical guys that only gets praised around here because he is a Texan and has played here for a few years and is a nice guy. No one would even bat an eye at him if he played somewhere else. He isn't even relevant at this point honestly.
Tex, different teams are built differently.

A spread team would have more receivers on the rosters (instead of a certain combination of FB and TEs).

The ball distribution would be different.

I suggest that you look for a source that shows how many routes a receiver run in all of his 16-game season (which you won't find).

From there, you can look at different things: Was he open and the QB didn't go his way? Was he running a clearing route such that the defense left another receiver open? How many catchable balls thrown his way that he caught or dropped.

Then you can come back and tell me which receivers in this league are play-makers as the real #2.

In our offense, one of the TEs is a key part of the passing offense, and the RB is another one.

I understand your wanting to have the best at each position (which would be a different discussion altogether due to several factors), but at the same time, your criteria is not set correctly, I'm afraid.
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Old 08-02-2012   #39
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

What I mean is that you can bring in some receivers you think is a playmaker on other team, and they won't have the same production they had had with some other teams.
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Old 08-02-2012   #40
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Default Re: USA Today: Kevin Walter is not a second-rate No. 2 receiver

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Tex, different teams are built differently.

A spread team would have more receivers on the rosters (instead of a certain combination of FB and TEs).

The ball distribution would be different.

I suggest that you look for a source that shows how many routes a receiver run in all of his 16-game season (which you won't find).

From there, you can look at different things: Was he open and the QB didn't go his way? Was he running a clearing route such that the defense left another receiver open? How many catchable balls thrown his way that he caught or dropped.

Then you can come back and tell me which receivers in this league are play-makers as the real #2.

In our offense, one of the TEs is a key part of the passing offense, and the RB is another one.

I understand your wanting to have the best at each position (which would be a different discussion altogether due to several factors), but at the same time, your criteria is not set correctly, I'm afraid.
These are all valid points, but at the end of the day Walter is our #2 WR on the depth chart. He is the 2nd option in our passing game as far as the WR's go. He is a guy who simply is average man. Is his blocking average? No, but you don't continue to keep a guy in your important offensive plans that much for years because of his blocking and his great attitude. There are lots of players with a great attitude around the league and a lot of guys that can also bring a better dynamic to an offense than what Walter can at this point. He has served his purpose here, but at the end of the day there isn't a team in the league that worries about Walter on any Sunday. We have had plenty of opportunities to upgrade this WR core, and at some point the Texans need to abandon this boyscout only mentality for their roster and start considering other guys who can contribute more potentially.

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What I mean is that you can bring in some receivers you think is a playmaker on other team, and they won't have the same production they had had with some other teams.

That is definitely true. Take Welker for example. Great WR. One of the best in the league, but I don't think for a second that he'd be a dynamic WR on just any team without a guy like Brady or Brees throwing to him in a system where that fits Welker's skills. Welker could not easily be replaced in NE's system though. Walter could easily be replaced in ours though.
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