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Old 05-23-2012   #61
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Well his suspension did get reduced at least.
Really? When did that come down? He got credit for the playoff game and has to sit the first 3 games this season. At least that's the last I heard.

Gotta link?
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Old 05-23-2012   #62
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
Really? When did that come down? He got credit for the playoff game and has to sit the first 3 games this season. At least that's the last I heard.

Gotta link?
There have been conflicting reports whether he got credit or it got reduced. I have seen both but do not have links for you.
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Old 05-23-2012   #63
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
Really? When did that come down? He got credit for the playoff game and has to sit the first 3 games this season. At least that's the last I heard.

Gotta link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
There have been conflicting reports whether he got credit or it got reduced. I have seen both but do not have links for you.
In the link that HOU TEX posted it said it got reduced...

I have seen/heard that he got credit for the play-off game, a while ago....but that just seems a little odd...I dunno...
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Old 05-23-2012   #64
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Ah, I see. Makes sense now.

I forgot it has opposite effects upon adults. Thanks, CnD.

And I'm with ChampionTexan here: Is there any other reason an adult would need Ritalin, other than for fighting depression?
Narcolepsy and associated EDS (excessive daytime sleepiness), as well as chronic fatigue syndrome, have been treated with ritalin.
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Old 05-23-2012   #65
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Hartmann said it was for add i think.
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Old 05-23-2012   #66
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Hartmann said it was for add i think.
Right, but people were curious if that was the real reason because there can be some problems using ritalin to treat ADD in some adults. Using it to treat adults was considered an "off-label" use last time I looked. It is intended primarily for treating that disorder in children and teenagers.

(Off-label doesn't mean it's prohibited for other uses, it's just not the primary purpose as approved by the FDA)
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Old 05-23-2012   #67
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by G27RR View Post
Right, but people were curious if that was the real reason because there can be some problems using ritalin to treat ADD in some adults. Using it to treat adults was considered an "off-label" use last time I looked. It is intended primarily for treating that disorder in children and teenagers.

(Off-label doesn't mean it's prohibited for other uses, it's just not the primary purpose as approved by the FDA)
I take Ritalin.

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Old 05-23-2012   #68
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
I take Ritalin.

Mike
I assume you're posting that to say that you don't have problems with it. If so, great and I'm glad it works for you. I said "some adults" can have problems and that's why people were wondering what some of the other reasons were that people may take it.

I also didn't say I didn't believe Brett. He should have followed the rules though and reported it, then none of us would even be having this discussion.
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Old 05-23-2012   #69
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

Depression and narcolepsy are the two conditions usually treated with Ritalin.

Just like ADHD children on Ritalin who become MORE hyperactive, there are the exceptions where an adult placed on Ritalin will become calmer. Most adults on Ritalin that I have encountered over the years were on Ritalin as youngsters and continued to show results into adulthood.
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Old 05-23-2012   #70
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Depression and narcolepsy are the two conditions usually treated with Ritalin.

Just like ADHD children on Ritalin who become MORE hyperactive, there are the exceptions where an adult placed on Ritalin will become calmer. Most adults on Ritalin that I have encountered over the years were on Ritalin as youngsters and continued to show results into adulthood.
Hey Doc, I was mis-diagnosed(sp) and was put on adderall..... As it turns out Adderall gave me very much of a sense of being on cocaine/X (not that I know anything about those things)...

It was at that point that I chose to no longer refill those or that particular prescription.

Since then, I've dabbled with Cymbalta(sp) and I have completely gotten away from Paxil.....

In short, I've talked to you about ALL of the meds I've been on over the years. That said, I've given up on all that and don't even take aspririn or iron suplements as a regimen anymore.
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Old 05-23-2012   #71
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by G27RR View Post
Right, but people were curious if that was the real reason because there can be some problems using ritalin to treat ADD in some adults. Using it to treat adults was considered an "off-label" use last time I looked. It is intended primarily for treating that disorder in children and teenagers.

(Off-label doesn't mean it's prohibited for other uses, it's just not the primary purpose as approved by the FDA)
"Off-label" denotes that the drug has not passed the clinical trials recognizing its safety and/or efficacy (effectiveness) for a designated use. In the case of Ritalin used in adults for ADHD, there have been a significantly higher rate of cardiovascular events (such as heart attacks and strokes) associated with its use as compared to other drugs used for that purpose and as compared to the rates seen in children (goes to safety). This is besides the fact that the "paradoxical"effect is the rule rather than the exception (goes to efficacy)
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Old 05-24-2012   #72
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

So he has permission to use it now? Why would they give him permission to use it while simultaneously suspending him for it? That's just stupid.

3 games for an ink and paper process violation?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bureaucratic
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Old 06-02-2012   #73
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

I guess Hartmann picked the wrong treatment drug

Quote:
Brown was suspended four games by the league in March for violating the league’s policy on performance-enhancing substances. Brown revealed last month that he was suspended for taking Adderall, a prescription medication usually given to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Brown had a prescription for the drug, which he said he’s used since entering the league, but he did not get prior approval before taking it.

Hartmann was suspended for taking Ritalin, which is used to treat the same conditions as Adderall. Hartmann’s reduction and Brown’s exoneration are a major break from policy for the league which has long maintained that there is no wiggle room for players who violated the PED policy. The next step should probably be a revision of how the league deals with prescription medication like Adderall since they shouldn’t be classified alongside anabolic steroids.
Brown suspension was overturned, Hartmanns reduced

I wonder why they didn't wipe out both suspensions ?(being Brown didn't get permission either)
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-been-lifted/
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Old 06-02-2012   #74
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I guess Hartmann picked the wrong treatment drug



Brown suspension was overturned, Hartmanns reduced

I wonder why they didn't wipe out both suspensions ?(being Brown didn't get permission either)
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-been-lifted/

Just a theory. Brown had been taking Adderrall prior to being taken into the NFL. Hartman began taking the Ritalin after he was taken into the league.
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Old 06-02-2012   #75
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

I wish we had a former college or pro kicker or punter on the MB who could explain why one person can't learn to do both. It's always seemed odd to me.
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Old 06-02-2012   #76
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I wish we had a former college or pro kicker or punter on the MB who could explain why one person can't learn to do both. It's always seemed odd to me.
I just don't think there are that many people who excel at both. They could learn how, but its unlikely that they would be as good as someone who specializes in just one of the two skills.
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Old 06-02-2012   #77
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I wish we had a former college or pro kicker or punter on the MB who could explain why one person can't learn to do both. It's always seemed odd to me.

This is an MB "discussion" on that very subject. Some interesting good potential points.

NFL Question - Why don't kickers also punt?
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Old 06-02-2012   #78
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by TexCanada View Post
I just don't think there are that many people who excel at both. They could learn how, but its unlikely that they would be as good as someone who specializes in just one of the two skills.
I would like to hear why one player can't be good at both. Danny White was a very good QB (top all time QB rating when he retired) and a very good punter - that was the most vicious potential for fake punts ever. Those are two much more divergent skill sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
This is an MB "discussion" on that very subject. Some interesting good potential points.

NFL Question - Why don't kickers also punt?
Thanks for the link. I am still not persuaded.
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Old 06-02-2012   #79
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I wish we had a former college or pro kicker or punter on the MB who could explain why one person can't learn to do both. It's always seemed odd to me.
me too. I did do some search around the internet and even though this is wikipedia. This is the best answer I have found

Quote:
The kicker initially was not a specialized role. Until the 1960s, the kicker was almost always doubled at another position on the roster, George Blanda, Frank Gifford and Paul Hornung being some of the more prominent examples of players who were stars at other positions as well as being known for their kicking abilities. As the era of "two-way" players gave way to increased specialization, teams would employ a specialist at the punter or kicker position. Because of the difference in techniques needed, to avoid leg fatigue, and to reduce the risk of injury, on the professional level most teams employ separate players to handle the jobs. The placekicker usually will only punt when the punter is injured, and vice-versa
(One player often handles both jobs in the Canadian Football League, which has smaller active rosters than in the NFL.) A professional team will occasionally even have a "kickoff specialist" who handles only the kickoffs and serves as a backup to the kicker who handles field goals and extra points. This is typically done to further protect a premier point-scoring kicker from injury or if he, while accurate, does not have sufficient distance on kickoffs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placeki...28vs_punter.29

maybe also teams think it is better "bang for the buck" to have two or three specialty guys( i.e kick/punter/kick off specialist) than to have one guy do all three roles and the last two roster spots are saved for a guy that will never see the field.
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Old 06-02-2012   #80
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Default Re: Brett Hartmann suspended

Another player wins ADHD suspension appeal; what about Virgil Green?
Jun 1, 2012 4:22 PM


Quote:
Giants RB Andre Brown won his appeal and will not have to serve the four-game suspension he had been hit with in March. He had originally been found to have violated the league's policy on performance-enhancing drugs.

But Brown, who spent part of the 2010 season with the Broncos, says the suspension had resulted from a clerical error regarding his prescription for the ADHD medication Adderall.

Texans punter Brett Hartmann had also been suspended four games for ADHD meds and won his appeal last week. Unlike Brown, Hartmann must serve a reduced three-game suspension instead.

Judging from the players' statements, it appears the divergent appeal outcomes stems from the timing of each player's having gotten their prescriptions approved by the league. Brown said a failure on his part to fill out the proper paperwork had triggered his suspension:

Quote:
It was something that I've been on since I've been in the league, which was Adderall. I just forgot to fill out some paperwork and that was it.
Meanwhile, Hartmann admits to not having gotten league approval prior to his positive test:

Quote:
It was just for ADD medicine, but now I have approval to take it from our doctors and the NFL doctors. I just made a mistake. Should have got that approved before. Just got to move on. Serve the three-game suspension.
Hartmann's statement is similar to that of Broncos TE Virgil Green, who was also suspended four games for ADHD meds:

Quote:
I was suspended for four games for taking ADHD medication prior to obtaining an exemption from the League. I have now obtained the proper exemption to take the medication that has been prescribed to me to treat my condition. I apologize to my teammates, coaches and fans for my mistake and will make sure to never let anything like this happen again.
According to an article by Jeff Legwold in the Denver Post, Green already lost his appeal of the suspension, which reportedly stems from a drug test administered prior to his rookie 2011 season.

So, what gives? Are the circumstances of Green's suspension different than those of Hartmann's? If not, why does Green still face a four-game penalty while Hartmann's has been cut to three?

Beyond those details though, why is the league suspending players for using ADHD medications they have (presumably) legitimately been taking under the care of their physicians?

Something just doesn't seem right about this policy.

But one thing does: Brown's spelling of Roger Goodell's name...

Suspension lifted !!!!!!!! Thank God

Surely not what he meant, but we're going to interpret it that way.
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