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Old 05-22-2012   #381
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Originally Posted by pec0sb0b View Post
Sounds like he has a ways to go.
Interesting, I wonder who the 1's and 2's are with Johnson out.
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Old 05-22-2012   #382
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Interesting, I wonder who the 1's and 2's are with Johnson out.
I'd imagine guys with experience in the system would currently be ranked highest: KW, Lestar Jean (1s) and then Juaquin Iglesias, Jeff Maehl (2s), and then Posey and Martin (3s), and then Jones, Holliday, and Jackson in no particular order.
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Old 05-23-2012   #383
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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I'd imagine guys with experience in the system would currently be ranked highest: KW, Lestar Jean (1s) and then Juaquin Iglesias, Jeff Maehl (2s), and then Posey and Martin (3s), and then Jones, Holliday, and Jackson in no particular order.
Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.
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Old 05-23-2012   #384
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.
With 2 days of OTAs it's normal to have the younger guys running with the younger guys while they learn the system. There is NO WAY that Posey enters camp not running with at least the 2's.
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Old 05-23-2012   #385
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.
My post wasn't about where they'll end up; my post is where they PROBABLY were when OTAs started. Until the rookies learn their routes, the guys that know the routes should have an advantage.

In a week, the whole list could be turned on its ear as guys learn the ropes and the offense and start to show what they can do.
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Old 05-23-2012   #386
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Interesting, I wonder who the 1's and 2's are with Johnson out.
I wanna say it's Walter and Jean running together right now...
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Old 05-24-2012   #387
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.
doubt maehl or iglesias stick around..
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Old 05-24-2012   #388
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I'd imagine guys with experience in the system would currently be ranked highest: KW, Lestar Jean (1s) and then Juaquin Iglesias, Jeff Maehl (2s), and then Posey and Martin (3s), and then Jones, Holliday, and Jackson in no particular order.
I think trindon is higher than you have him listed and no way is Iglesias ahead of the two draft picks. I doubt he even gets more reps in team drills.
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Old 05-24-2012   #389
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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I think trindon is higher than you have him listed and no way is Iglesias ahead of the two draft picks. I doubt he even gets more reps in team drills.
Judging from Kubes interview the other day, you're probably right about Trindon.

And I only expect Iglesias to be ahead of the rookies the first few days of practice until they get their feet under them. I expect the rooks to be the 2nd teamers within a week, especially K-Mart.
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Old 05-24-2012   #390
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Well if DeVier Posey cannot beat out Jeff Maehle or Juaquin Iglesias then this will be a really bad pick. Same probably goes for Keshawn Martin.
Outside of KW, what WR has Kubiak identified and acquired that really has contributed much of anything? I can't think of a name.

The WR spot has to get better. If we don't find a gem out of the bunch we've got right now...then I think we're potentially in trouble this year.

At some point, the offense has to rely on the WRs more than it has recently. We're basically a flavor of two scoops of Arian Foster, a dash of Ben Tate, and a pinch of Name-That-Texans-TE.

IF guys like Posey, Jean, Martin, and even Dweeb Jones find ways to REALLY contribute...this team is unstoppable in 2012. If not, I hope nothing happens to Arian Foster.
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Old 05-24-2012   #391
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Outside of KW, what WR has Kubiak identified and acquired that really has contributed much of anything? I can't think of a name.
Outside of David Anderson (7th) , Jacoby Jones (3rd) and Trycycle Holliday (6th) and if you really wanna get technical Dorin Dickerson (7th) ..... What WR's has Kubiak drafted or traded for ??


The answer would be .... None.


To be fair to Kubiak , Jacoby Jones has all world talent .... Just no brain to go along with that talent. In his time with the Texans , Kubiak extracted as much as can be expected out Jones and his pea brain.

Anderson was solid if un-spectacular while with the Texans , making plays when given the opportunity.


They really havent had the luxury of drafting a WR high either .... Kubiak and Smith were saddled with a 2-14 team that was lacking of talent from the top of the roster to the bottom.
In fixing the rest of the roster , the WR position has been ignored .... yet we've seen the team produce back to back 4500 passing yard seasons with #80 , KW and <insert joke here> at WR .... and would likely have duplicated that last season if not for a series of injuries , their top two QB's out for 6 games and #80 missing 9 games , that would have broken lesser teams.
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Old 05-24-2012   #392
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Outside of David Anderson (7th) , Jacoby Jones (3rd) and Trycycle Holliday (6th) and if you really wanna get technical Dorin Dickerson (7th) ..... What WR's has Kubiak drafted or traded for ??


The answer would be .... None.
Technically we traded for mason last year.
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Old 05-24-2012   #393
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Technically we traded for mason last year.
...and we gave Bryant Johnson (picked @ #17 by AZ in 2003) an extended "looksee" to see if he could help.

...he didn't.
and I wonder why that is... he was a decent 3rd option for the Cards behind Boldin and Fitz. Had a 45 catch year with the Niners... Seems like he should have been the guy to step up. Except Kubiak kept trying to make Jones into something he wasn't; a #1 WR.
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Old 05-24-2012   #394
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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What WR's has Kubiak drafted or traded for ??

The answer would be .... None.
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Technically we traded for mason last year.
I think there is an argument that you are both right, considering Mason's lack of production. Since he didn't have enough catches to trigger the conditional pick we got Mason for free.
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Old 05-24-2012   #395
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Technically we traded for mason last year.
The point is they have spent very few resources in the WR position since Kubiak took over .... Honestly they didnt do much to fill the position in the Capers / Casserly era either.

Here's a list of every WR drafted by the Texans - including the expansion draft.

Jermaine Lewis - 6th round of the expansion draft , originally drafted in the 5th round #153 in 1996 by Baltimore.

Avoin Black 16th round pick in the expansion draft , originally drafted in the 4th round #121 in 2000 by Buffalo

Jabar Gaffney 2nd round #33 in 2002.

Andre Johnson 1st round #3 in 2003

Sloan Thomas 7th round #211 in 2004

Jerome Mathis 4th round #114 in 2005

David Anderson 7th round #251 in 2006 - Kubiaks first draft.

Jacoby Jones 3rd round #72 in 2007

None in 2008

None in 2009

Trindon Holliday 6th round #197 in 2010
Dorin Dickerson 7th round #227 in 2010 - Technically a TE but they drafted him to play WR.

None in 2011

DeVier Posey 3rd round #68 in 2012
Keshawn Martin 4th round #121 in 2012


In Kubiaks first Six drafts he used two 7th rounders , a 6th and one premium pick at WR - that being Pea Brain in the 3rd round of 07.

Hard to say what he can and cant do with WR's when he hasnt really used any valuable resources on premium talent mainly because he was handed a roster lacking talent at so many positions.
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Old 05-24-2012   #396
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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The point is they have spent very few resources in the WR position since Kubiak took over .... Honestly they didnt do much to fill the position in the Capers / Casserly era either.

<snip>

Hard to say what he can and cant do with WR's when he hasnt really used any valuable resources on premium talent mainly because he was handed a roster lacking talent at so many positions.
This is a pretty good point.

Let's go back a bit further. People always talk about how Kubiak/Shanahan:
1) Don't normally draft linemen early because they have odd requirements for the ZBS.
2) Don't normally draft RBs early because the system works with guys that are available later

Do they do the same thing with WRs?

First off, who were the Bronco's receivers during Kubiak's time?

He inherited Anthony Miller (5'11", 190#), 1st round pick of the Chargers in 88) and Mike Pritchard (5'10#, 188#), 1st round pick of the Falcons in 1991. Those were his guys in 1995, his first year there. But he brought Ed McCaffrey from San Francisco (6'5#, 215#) who'd originally been drafted by the Giants in the 3rd round in 1991. McCaffrey became a fixture in Denver. Also in 1995, the Bronco's picked up an UDFA named Rod Smith (6', 200#) who would have an HOF career with Kubiak. He didn't start until his 3rd year with the team and then was a perennial pro bowler. Ed Kennison (6'1", 201#), a #1 pick by the Rams, took over for McCaffrey when he was injured in 2001. But McCaffrey eventually lost his pick to Denver 1st round pick, Ashley LeLie (6' 3", 200#). LeLie had a couple of very good seasons under Kubiak, the best being a 54 catch/1084 yard season. But the wheels fell off when Kubiak left. He bounced around and was never able to regain his form.

As to who the Bronco's drafted as WRs... it's a load of late round crap and even when they drafted in the early rounds, the guys were scrubs.

5 - Patrick Jeffers, 6'3", 217#, 5 year marginal career
1 - Marcus Nash, 6'3#, 195#, 1 year career and busted
3 - Travis McGriff, 5' 8#, 185#, 3 years and 5 receptions
6 - Chad Plummer, 6'3", 223#, 2 years and no stats
3 - Chris Cole, 6', 195#, 3 years, 12 catches
5 - Muneer Moore, didn't make it from Richmond
7 - Leroy Fields, didn't make it from Jackson State
6 - Kevin Kasper, 6'1", 197#, 5 years, marginal player
1 - Ashley Lelie, 6'3", 200#, 7 years and a starter
5 - Herb Haygood, 5' 11", 193#, 1 year
5 - Adrian Madise, 5' 11", 215#, 1 year
2 - Darius Watts, 6'2", 190#, 2 years, marginal player
6 - Triandos Luke, 5'10", 190#, 1 year and 6 receptions

Not a great track record... until you throw Rod Smith into the mix.

I wonder how much input Kubiak had into this? I think he's drafted WR better here than Denver did when he was there.
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Old 05-24-2012   #397
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

The WR spot is the only sport on the roster that really worried me going into this season. I was hoping they would address is early in the draft or via FA and they really didnt.
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Old 05-24-2012   #398
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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The WR spot is the only sport on the roster that really worried me going into this season. I was hoping they would address is early in the draft or via FA and they really didnt.
In a round about sort of way, they did.

Going into the draft, Smith said over and over that this draft was deep at WR. There were a lot of guys (off the top of my head: Randle, Toon, Sanu, etc.) who would have gone in the 1st-3rd round other years that dropped to later rounds because there were so many talented guys available OR because of character concerns.

Prior to his suspension, Posey was considered a 2nd round talent. A lot of people red-flagged him because of those suspensions as a "bad character" guy but on reviewing why he was suspended, he's really not. He's a very talented receiver that we basically stole because a lot of people slept on him.

Dwight Jones is possibly even more talented and has more potential than Posey except that he DOES have real character concerns. If he hadn't screwed around, he easily could have been drafted in the 2nd round.

Walterfootball had Jones AND K-Mart ranked higher than Posey although I think they were giving too much emphasis to Posey's suspensions.

So, in effect, we got 3 guys at WR who could be considered early round prospects, we just got them in later rounds. So that's a good deal, right?
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Old 05-24-2012   #399
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Hard to say what he can and cant do with WR's when he hasnt really used any valuable resources on premium talent mainly because he was handed a roster lacking talent at so many positions.
You are correct...

Wasn't arguing that point at all.
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Old 05-24-2012   #400
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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The WR spot is the only sport on the roster that really worried me going into this season. I was hoping they would address is early in the draft or via FA and they really didnt.
to follow up what Pencil Neck said, clearly best value approach was something they derived at purely on basis of need with using two early mid round picks. this is where best value presented itself so Rick Smith & Texans took advantage of what they felt was plus value @ WR position's.
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