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Old 05-09-2012   #61
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
All the same, there ain't nothing wrong with Jacoby's route running.
Whatever you say. Schaub has been visibly upset on the field and on the sidelines with JJ on several occasions. Simple things like cutting a route in what looks like text book fashion at 8 yards instead of 12 result in balls that look high and/or behind. The route isn't just the shape and cut it is the placement.
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Old 05-10-2012   #62
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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Whatever you say. Schaub has been visibly upset on the field and on the sidelines with JJ on several occasions. Simple things like cutting a route in what looks like text book fashion at 8 yards instead of 12 result in balls that look high and/or behind. The route isn't just the shape and cut it is the placement.
I've seen kubiak upset with schaub a few times too.
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Old 05-10-2012   #63
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I've seen kubiak upset with schaub a few times too.
Schaub has a million and one things to consider. He is going to make a few mistakes. Jacoby has 3 things to do. Run the rote is #1 and he cant even do that correctly.

Not sure why people are defending his route running when its been an OBVIOUS problem since he has been here.
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Old 05-10-2012   #64
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Schaub has a million and one things to consider. He is going to make a few mistakes. Jacoby has 3 things to do. Run the rote is #1 and he cant even do that correctly.

Not sure why people are defending his route running when its been an OBVIOUS problem since he has been here.
I'm not defending his route running.

What I'm saying is that I don't think or know if it is a problem. Schaub throwing balls in the dirt is not evidence.

As far as Schaub having a lot of things to consider, that's not really relevant as we are not talking magnitude of mistakes. We are talking about mistakes being made period.

If you ask me who is more valuable to the team and who's mistakes could I live with more, it's Schaub.
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Old 05-10-2012   #65
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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I'm not defending his route running.

What I'm saying is that I don't think or know if it is a problem. Schaub throwing balls in the dirt is not evidence.

As far as Schaub having a lot of things to consider, that's not really relevant as we are not talking magnitude of mistakes. We are talking about mistakes being made period.

If you ask me who is more valuable to the team and who's mistakes could I live with more, it's Schaub.
If it's not evidence, then why did Jacoby get dirt darts or the ball over his head and the ball was on the other receivers?
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Old 05-10-2012   #66
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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If it's not evidence, then why did Jacoby get dirt darts or the ball over his head and the ball was on the other receivers?
I call that selective memory.

Schaub has thrown balls in the dirt to more guys than just Jacoby, but that wasn't my point.

My point is that a ball going in the dirt doesn't mean a receiver ran his route wrong. That could be the case, but there are other possibilities and I thinik that it's just gotten so popular around here to say "Jacoby is a bad route runner", now everyone says it and I don't know if that's true.

The pass that Schaub threw to Andre against the Chargers a couple years ago was too low and Andre couldn't hold on to it. He ended up kicking it up in the air and it was a pick. Was that a poor route by Andre or just not a great throw by Schaub?

My guess is that if that was Jacoby then it would have been said it was a poor route.

Listen, I don't even care about Jacoby. I don't think he was a good receiver, but not because his route running was horrendous. I don't think he was a great route runner, but I don't think it was this huge problem that everyone is making it out to be.

And this is not me crucifying Schaub either. All QB's make bad throws on occasion.
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Old 05-10-2012   #67
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Whatever you say. Schaub has been visibly upset on the field and on the sidelines with JJ on several occasions. Simple things like cutting a route in what looks like text book fashion at 8 yards instead of 12 result in balls that look high and/or behind. The route isn't just the shape and cut it is the placement.
& there's no way we can know if he was supposed to cut it off @ 8 or 12.

He sees less snaps than KDub, as Walter is our #2 receiver, has been since he's been here. He gets more targets. For whatever the reason, his completion percentage is lower.

If this "argument" was objective & purely about his performance, we should have equal concerns about Walter who was getting paid more than Jj & was the actual #2 receiver. Instead of asking Jj to step up & be the #1 when Aj is out, what's wrong with asking where KDub is?

Let's say you're right & Jj has a problem running routes. That's an issue & needs to be fixed, worthy of discussing on a message board.

But why aren't we complaining about a WR that can't get open?

You can praise KDub for his blocking ability, but he's a WR & I saw Jj blocking downfield on all of Foster's big runs, so Jj is doing pretty well in that aspect.

So, until we see some balance about the poor Houston WRs, I'm not going to give any credence to any argument about Jacoby's route running. Without that balance, it's made up BS to kick a man while he's down.

Look, I'm going to go out on a limb here & tell you all what I think about Jacoby Jones & why he wasn't successful here. I guarantee Jacoby Jones will have a better year than Robert Meachum.


Guarantee.

I'm not saying anything bad about Schaub in particular, he's a fine QB, one of the best in the league. But Jacoby is not a very well rounded receiver. The thing he excels at can not be taken advantage of here in Houston.
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Old 05-10-2012   #68
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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If it's not evidence, then why did Jacoby get dirt darts or the ball over his head and the ball was on the other receivers?
I'll say this, most good accurate QBs will try to put the ball in a place that makes it easier for the receiver to make a play on the ball, or difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball.

He makes these decisions on the fly & it's always different. Every route, every coverage, every defender, every receiver.

Most likely he threw it in the dirt in front of Jj for this reason, or wide, or deep, thinking he's giving Jj an opportunity. & for whatever reason, Jj didn't "go for it"


I find that more plausible than this "poor route running" thing that seems to have gained some momentum on this board.

I criticize Schaub for the same thing. When Aj is even, he's leaving. The ball should be thrown out ahead of him, if there is no deep help. But Schaub will watch & wait, & watch, & throw. By then, Aj/Jj has already outrun his arm.

It's pretty bad, imo, on the bootlegs. Yes, Matt has a great fake, yes, he makes good reads, but it takes him so long to get around that Jj & Aj, even KDub sometimes out runs his arm.

These guys are breaking wide open with nothing but green in front of them. If Schaub can get the ball ahead of them, they're 20+ yard plays if not TDs. But it takes him so long to get around that he underthrows the receivers (on purpose).

Now, I know there's some stat out there that probably says we had more 20+ yard plays than most teams. I think that's irrelevant. If we had 50, we should have had 100 & Aj should have averaged a dozen TDs over the last 6 years.

I'm not blaming Jacoby's misfortunes on anyone else. He's a talented mofo, & it's up to him to make the most of it. I don't believe he has. He's made mistakes that are unexplainable. He hasn't made the plays when we needed him to as consistently as we need him to.

All I'm saying is this argument about his route running is bull.
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Old 05-10-2012   #69
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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I've seen kubiak upset with schaub a few times too.
Kubiak is known to be hard on his quarterbacks.

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Old 05-10-2012   #70
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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& there's no way we can know if he was supposed to cut it off @ 8 or 12.

He sees less snaps than KDub, as Walter is our #2 receiver, has been since he's been here. He gets more targets. For whatever the reason, his completion percentage is lower.

If this "argument" was objective & purely about his performance, we should have equal concerns about Walter who was getting paid more than Jj & was the actual #2 receiver. Instead of asking Jj to step up & be the #1 when Aj is out, what's wrong with asking where KDub is?

Let's say you're right & Jj has a problem running routes. That's an issue & needs to be fixed, worthy of discussing on a message board.

But why aren't we complaining about a WR that can't get open?

You can praise KDub for his blocking ability, but he's a WR & I saw Jj blocking downfield on all of Foster's big runs, so Jj is doing pretty well in that aspect.

So, until we see some balance about the poor Houston WRs, I'm not going to give any credence to any argument about Jacoby's route running. Without that balance, it's made up BS to kick a man while he's down.

Look, I'm going to go out on a limb here & tell you all what I think about Jacoby Jones & why he wasn't successful here. I guarantee Jacoby Jones will have a better year than Robert Meachum.


Guarantee.


I'm not saying anything bad about Schaub in particular, he's a fine QB, one of the best in the league. But Jacoby is not a very well rounded receiver. The thing he excels at can not be taken advantage of here in Houston.
What's the bet he doesn't? Because I'm willing to bet on Meachem being at least the #2 in the San Diego offense was a quarterback that is 3x better than Flacco in Rivers. Meachem in the last 3 years has solidly out performed Jones in every category.
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Old 05-10-2012   #71
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Kubiak is known to be hard on his quarterbacks.

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Just don't put that in all caps. We know how Sage feels about yelling.
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Old 05-10-2012   #72
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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What's the bet he doesn't? Because I'm willing to bet on Meachem being at least the #2 in the San Diego offense was a quarterback that is 3x better than Flacco in Rivers. Meachem in the last 3 years has solidly out performed Jones in every category.
Name it.

Meachum has had a QB for the last 3 years that has less restrictions than Jacoby has. & Meachum was their #2, he got more snaps than Jacoby so his numbers should be better anyway.

I don't like Meachum (if you can't tell). & I think Jacoby will outperform him as the #3 WR in Baltimore, because of Flacco's big arm & their propensity to go deep.

Meachum is simply not that good.


IMO of course.
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Old 05-10-2012   #73
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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What's the bet he doesn't?
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Name it.
This is gettin good!

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Old 05-10-2012   #74
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

I wish Jacoby all the best except when the Ravens play the Texans and hope that a change of scenery will do him some good.
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Old 05-10-2012   #75
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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I call that selective memory.

It's by no means, in any shape, form or fashion selective memory Rey. It's what I saw with my own two eyes over quite a period of time. I've only been fortunate enough to attend 7 Texans games over the last two years but I can see alot more in the stadium than I do on TV, even if it is a wide flat screen in Hi-Def. I could SEE where Jones rounded off his routes as opposed to other receivers planting a foot and breaking sharply. Guess what happened then? I'll tell ya, the ball was there or placed where they're able to make a play on it as opposed to it sailing over their head or skipping off the turf. Nothing selective about it. Quite the opposite. Very clear and unforgettable. After seeing it enough times in the Raider's game last year, I told my wife: This game's gone. That sorry SOB can't catch a fkn cold. WE LOST.

Schaub has thrown balls in the dirt to more guys than just Jacoby, but that wasn't my point.

Sure he has. But no where near the percentages that included a route ran by the former #12.

My point is that a ball going in the dirt doesn't mean a receiver ran his route wrong. That could be the case, but there are other possibilities and I thinik that it's just gotten so popular around here to say "Jacoby is a bad route runner", now everyone says it and I don't know if that's true.

See first response. To the last sentence: I'm not parroting what other folks are saying, I'm stating what I saw with my own eyes WAY too many times and I AM sure it's true.

The pass that Schaub threw to Andre against the Chargers a couple years ago was too low and Andre couldn't hold on to it. He ended up kicking it up in the air and it was a pick. Was that a poor route by Andre or just not a great throw by Schaub?

That particular pass wasn't one of Matt's better throws. We've all watched games where Matt threw one of his patented 'OMG WTF was he thinking' throws though I don't include those in what I saw #12 deliver with amazing repeatability.

My guess is that if that was Jacoby then it would have been said it was a poor route.

Listen, I don't even care about Jacoby. I don't think he was a good receiver, but not because his route running was horrendous. I don't think he was a great route runner, but I don't think it was this huge problem that everyone is making it out to be.

Then I suppose this is really the main thing we're in disagreement about.

And this is not me crucifying Schaub either. All QB's make bad throws on occasion.

Agreed.
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Old 05-10-2012   #76
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Jacoby did not ever mature.....plain and simple. He had his chance last year when Dre went down....and he did not step it up..

He has issues and still has issues on and off the field.

I was pulling for Jacoby ....I have since the beginning....but even I saw the writing on the wall last season.

You cant wait on a guy forever. I personally thought he was gone before last season myself.

I really think his best years are behind him.
Yeah, yeah, people said the same thing about Jason Babin. Sometimes a change of teams is all it takes.
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Old 05-10-2012   #77
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Yeah, yeah, people said the same thing about Jason Babin. Sometimes a change of teams is all it takes.
And in Babin's case, it took four changes of teams (Houston to Seattle, Seattle to Kansas City, Kansas City to Philly, Philly to Tennessee) and he's on his fifth change now (Tennessee back to Philly).

Whew.

Hopefully Jacoby can get it together before that.
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Old 05-10-2012   #78
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

some guys are late bloomers. Houston teams were known for giving away guys like Joe Morgan at age 25 because he hit .236 Many more examples, but that's sports.

I doubt Jacoby will become a star like Joe Morgan, but stuff happens.
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Old 05-11-2012   #79
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

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Name it.

Meachum has had a QB for the last 3 years that has less restrictions than Jacoby has. & Meachum was their #2, he got more snaps than Jacoby so his numbers should be better anyway.

I don't like Meachum (if you can't tell). & I think Jacoby will outperform him as the #3 WR in Baltimore, because of Flacco's big arm & their propensity to go deep.

Meachum is simply not that good.


IMO of course.
Sig or Avatar bet? If I wasn't in EP (but that's going to change after this summer) I would make it a six pack.

To me it's not about whether or not I think Jacoby is good WR or not, not that I think he is at any rate, but I just don't think in Baltimore he's going to get a lot of targets as the third WR. Ray Rice by far is the focal point of that offense, though I think far as the WR goes Smith is going to get more targets this coming year.

I think Meachem is an ok #2 WR and he's going to San Diego where he's got a pretty darn good QB in Rivers and an offense that is more predicated to throwing the ball. He's also going to get the targets that Jackson had and I just think he has better hands than Jones does.

I don't think it's going to be real close.
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Old 05-11-2012   #80
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Default Re: Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
And in Babin's case, it took four changes of teams (Houston to Seattle, Seattle to Kansas City, Kansas City to Philly, Philly to Tennessee) and he's on his fifth change now (Tennessee back to Philly).

Whew.

Hopefully Jacoby can get it together before that.
Yes, hopefully by October when we play them.
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