Jacoby Jones Signs With Baltimore

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan

The best front office in the league brings Jones in for a road test. Maybe we kept him around for so long for a reason.

Baltimore is a great fit. Jacoby will make a place for himself with the Ravens... their WR corps is average & thin. I expect good production from him.

[Cutblock]

I seriously doubt Jacoby was ever going to earn his salary here. He was a wasted third round pick, and we can't afford to miss on too many third round picks. He was no better than Andre Davis, whom we paid less, and we didn't have to use a 3rd rounder on Davis.

If Jacoby can find a team that can use his talents, it won't hurt my feelings a bit. I hope things work out for him.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

The route running has been my third biggest knock on him after his hands and his fumbling.

Our offense has a lot of timing throws where the QB has to let the ball go before the receiver gets to his spot. So the QB is just throwing to the spot. Jacoby got open but the problem was that he wasn't always getting to his spot. That's why so many more balls looked like they were underthrown or overthrown to him than to anyone else.

Timing throw doesn't mean you're throwing to spots.

What it means is that you are throwing within a certain rythm. As a QB you still have to see the field and throw a catchable ball to the receiver.

Think about what you're saying. There are a few things that can affect a WR's route...Getting jamed, someone dropping in a zone right into their path, tripping, ect...

This stuff can happen on any play. This isn't practice where you're running routes on air and just doing exactly what you want to. There are going to be some hiccups and delays. That's just football. You cannot expect a receiver to be in the exact same spot everytime the run a route. That's just not going to happen. Sometimes they will be a little deeper, a little slower, a little faster, a little more shallow...That stuff happens all the time...

The QB is not out there just throwing to spots and that is a huge misconception. That's not what a timing throw is. Timing throw just mean when you hit the end of your drop (3 step, 5, 7; whatever) the ball is expected to be coming out. That's all that means. You still have to see your target and throw a catchable ball.

All that said, I had mentioned that Jacoby didn't do the QB many favors by not consistently attacking the ball.

It made the QB look bad. You've got this WR sitting there wide open and the ball falls to his feet or sails over his head.

At least, that's the way it looked to me. Matt was never as inaccurate with any other receiver as he was throwing to Jacoby.

That was on Matt. I disagree that he mostly did that to Jacoby. Go back and look at some of the games. He was doing that more often than usual. I can remember a few throws just off hand that he threw in the dirt to Andre and OD. He was making poor throws to everyone on occasion. Matt was having a good year because he was making more big plays. His completion percentage was the lowest that it's been since he's been a Texan. As a matter of fact the only years that his completion percentage was lower was his first two years in the league.

Matt wasn't all that accurate last year, but he and the team were just exploding for bigger plays.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Rey

Timing throw doesn't mean you're throwing to spots.

Think about all the throws where the QB throws the ball before the player turns around or makes his cut. The receiver turns around and the ball is there. Our QB/Receivers do that a lot. Those plays aren't about the receiver getting open, the QB spotting him, and throwing him the ball; it's about the QB reading reading the defense which tells him which receiver should be open and then throwing the ball to the place where that receiver should be. When the QB and the receiver are on different pages, the receiver runs one route and the QB throws to the spot for another route and the ball hits the ground with nary a soul around.

That's what I'm talking about. It's up to the receiver to be at a certain spot at a certain time. He's got to fight through whatever the defense throws at him. The defense jams the receiver in an attempt to disrupt the timing. You hear that over and over again. Disrupt the timing, disrupt the timing.

Now, maybe when they're saying 'disrupt the timing' everyone is using the term wrong but whatever, a lot of our offense is based on the receivers to getting to certain points and running along certain lines at certain times. The QB reads the defense and from those keys determines which one is going to be open. Then, based on his footwork, he gets the ball out to the guy whose route is supposed to be open and he throws the ball to where that receiver is supposed to be.

Not ALL of our offense is that way. There are plays where the QB goes back and surveys the field and then throws it to the open guy. But a lot of our offense is about being in the right place at the right time. And Jacoby wasn't there and when he was there, he frequently didn't make the play.

[The Pencil Neck]

duplicate.

[IDEXAN]

I say good luck to Jacobey except when he's in Houston next year for our big rematch with the Ravens, he needed a change of pace and a new opportunity.
Look how well that worked out for Jason Allen when he came to Houston after being a first round pick and then being cut by Miami.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Think about all the throws where the QB throws the ball before the player turns around or makes his cut.

Right, but the QB still has to identify the target and throw a catchable ball. Think about the trajectory of a thrown football. If a ball lands a receivers and you are saying the QB though the receiver would be closer, he'd have had to think the guy was going to be about 10-15 yards closer. An uncatchable ball at a receivers feet?

Even if the receiver is running his route and is off by 3 or 5 yards the ball should still be at his knees or basically within a catchable range.

If a QB is throwing balls at a receivers feet, or too far over his head that's on the QB. If we're talking about a few yards that could possibly be on the receiver.

I could see if it was just to Jacoby, but it wasn't. I can vividly recall throws into the dirt to every major receiver except Dreesen, Casey and Foster.

I don't see how you can just look at poorly thrown balls and just say that the receiver ran a bad route. Just because it was Jacoby that the poorly thrown ball was thrown to?

What about the low throws to everyone else? The game against the Charges last year when AJ kicked the ball up after a low throw...was that because AJ didn't run his route right? Or because the throw was a little low?

Like I said, accuracy wise, last year was a down year for Matt. Had he been hitting on a higher percentage of his passes and stayed healthy all year we'd have won the superbowl hands down. We had a pretty good shot if he'd have just stayed healthy but if he had been completing a higher percentage of his passes no doubt in my mind we'd have won 14 games AND the superbowl. Period.

But his percentages were down and really the numbers just confirm what I was seeing with my eyes.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Rey

But his percentages were down and really the numbers just confirm what I was seeing with my eyes.

I think you're taking this into a totally different place than I am.

I'm not saying that Matt always put the ball to the right place. I'm not saying his accuracy last year was as good as it had been in the past.

I'm saying that a much higher percentage of throws were "off" to Jacoby than to other people. That's what I saw and have seen for years... not just last year. ALL of the blame for that can't go on Matt especially if it really is a higher percentage of those bad targets going to Jacoby.

Once I get a free moment, I'll see if I can find target vs. catch statistics to verify.

But I believe that's why Jacoby never got the number of targets we would have expected when he subbed for AJ. Matt didn't trust him to be where he was supposed to be.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

I think you're taking this into a totally different place than I am.

I'm not saying that Matt always put the ball to the right place. I'm not saying his accuracy last year was as good as it had been in the past.

I'm saying that a much higher percentage of throws were "off" to Jacoby than to other people. That's what I saw and have seen for years... not just last year. ALL of the blame for that can't go on Matt especially if it really is a higher percentage of those bad targets going to Jacoby.

Once I get a free moment, I'll see if I can find target vs. catch statistics to verify.

But I believe that's why Jacoby never got the number of targets we would have expected when he subbed for AJ. Matt didn't trust him to be where he was supposed to be.

Remember the Raiders game we lost at home? Jacoby caught 1 of 11 passes that day.

[GP]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

I'm saying that a much higher percentage of throws were "off" to Jacoby than to other people. That's what I saw and have seen for years... not just last year. ALL of the blame for that can't go on Matt especially if it really is a higher percentage of those bad targets going to Jacoby.

Once I get a free moment, I'll see if I can find target vs. catch statistics to verify.

But I believe that's why Jacoby never got the number of targets we would have expected when he subbed for AJ. Matt didn't trust him to be where he was supposed to be.

All I remember seeing is Jacoby unable to jump high enough to catch a pass as well as not being able to dive low enough to catch a pass.

If he cuts on his route too early, the ball is over his head. We all have seen this. Jacoby leaping high and not able to even come close to the ball. it's because he went into his cut too soon when he should have taken one more step.

If he cuts too late, the ball ended up in the dirt. Why? Because he wasn't in the right spot at the right time.

Jacoby's route running, while he has had some people in the Texans organization stick up for him, is not good. It's inconsistent just like his hands and just like his punt fielding decision making.

Everything about him is inconsistent and that gets you in hot water in the NFL. He has the talent attributes teams want, but the inconsistency issue is what hurts him AND his team.

Notice there was no Blurbsdale College WR taken this year. Kubiak is not going to take a risk on another Jacoby again. That ship has sailed. The Amobi Okoye ship, similar to the Jacoby ship, sailed too. The Texans are beginning to settle down and just take players who have consistent tape and are not projects to shape up and show how awesome we are at finding hidden gems.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Remember the Raiders game we lost at home? Jacoby caught 1 of 11 passes that day.

My only Texans game. Yeah, I remember it well.

1 of 11. That was the day I knew the JJ experiment was over. You can't be called upon and perform 1 of 11 like that.

No way in hell was Schaub THAT off that he missed Jacoby 10 times.

Jacoby was all over the place and unfortunately never in the right area to get the pass from Schaub. Sailed over his head, hit two yards in front of him, etc. I had a lot of time on the flight back to think about it. That was the day I begin contemplating that it might just be Jacoby's route running that was the key to his problems for so long. I played back his plays in my head on that flight back, and I think I got on the message board and started posting about my thoughts on that topic.

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by GP

All I remember seeing is Jacoby unable to jump high enough to catch a pass as well as not being able to dive low enough to catch a pass.

If he cuts on his route too early, the ball is over his head. We all have seen this. Jacoby leaping high and not able to even come close to the ball. it's because he went into his cut too soon when he should have taken one more step.

If he cuts too late, the ball ended up in the dirt. Why? Because he wasn't in the right spot at the right time.

Jacoby's route running, while he has had some people in the Texans organization stick up for him, is not good. It's inconsistent just like his hands and just like his punt fielding decision making.

Everything about him is inconsistent and that gets you in hot water in the NFL. He has the talent attributes teams want, but the inconsistency issue is what hurts him AND his team.

Notice there was no Blurbsdale College WR taken this year. Kubiak is not going to take a risk on another Jacoby again. That ship has sailed. The Amobi Okoye ship, similar to the Jacoby ship, sailed too. The Texans are beginning to settle down and just take players who have consistent tape and are not projects to shape up and show how awesome we are at finding hidden gems.

Yep, no more Molden's or Jones high anymore. I don't think I or many would've been as hard if he had been drafted in the 5 round or lower.

I hope Jones does well in Baltimore when we don't have to play them. If he does develop into something much better than what we saw here, props to him and the staff there. He's just not going to do it here.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

I think you're taking this into a totally different place than I am.

I'm not saying that Matt always put the ball to the right place. I'm not saying his accuracy last year was as good as it had been in the past.

I'm saying that a much higher percentage of throws were "off" to Jacoby than to other people.

I think we are in agreement kind of except what you are attributing to route running I am attributing to Jacoby's lack of hands and failure to consistently attack the ball.

When the ball is thrown you should attack it. Go to it. You don't wait on it. Jacoby did a poor job of that. There were some throws that were a little off, but Jacoby didn't have good enough hands to consistently pull those balls in. Not many spectacular catches in his resume.

If he wasn't clearly open and the ball wasn't right on him he had trouble making the catch. And I think that is why Matt didn't trust him all that much.

But his route running? I just don't think that was a huge issue....JMO..

I just can't see the Texans staff and Kubiak letting him run sloppy routes. That's like the first thing you work on. I'm not saying he was a great route runner, but I don't think that bad route running is what kept him from being successful.


Here is a link to targets and receptions: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...false/count/41

Most of the Texans receivers are on the second page. OD is on the first page I think .

OD: 54 Receptions, 84 Targets = 64%
AF: 53, 71 = 74%
JJ: 31, 64 = 48%
KW: 39, 59 = 66%
AJ: 33, 51 = 64%
JD: 28, 39 = 71%
JC: 18, 24 = 75%
BT: 13, 19 = 68%

[GP]

Originally Posted by Rey

I just can't see the Texans staff and Kubiak letting him run sloppy routes. That's like the first thing you work on.

Oh, I imagine in practices he runs crisp routes and all that jazz.

Come game time, though, he is off the reservation BIG TIME. Not because he wants to, but because he's trying so hard to make the big play and to turn it all loose (contrast this with practice when there's no pressure like you get in a game).

It's the consistency stuff again. He can't replicate it on a consistent basis. He seems to be very dynamic and not very stable with his on-the-field behaviors. This is why he fields punts on a bounce with two gunners in his face, swings the ball out to the side (away from body) wildly all the time.

He's just not a technically sound player at all.

[paycheck71]

The only good thing I remember JJ do last year is the TD pass he caught in Baltimore in the regular season. Other than that I remember dropped passes, bad route running, and the punt fumble.

I was rooting for him, I really was, but it was time for him to go. I wish him well, except for when he plays the Texans.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Rey

I think we are in agreement kind of except what you are attributing to route running I am attributing to Jacoby's lack of hands and failure to consistently attack the ball.

When the ball is thrown you should attack it. Go to it. You don't wait on it. Jacoby did a poor job of that. There were some throws that were a little off, but Jacoby didn't have good enough hands to consistently pull those balls in. Not many spectacular catches in his resume.

If he wasn't clearly open and the ball wasn't right on him he had trouble making the catch. And I think that is why Matt didn't trust him all that much.

But his route running? I just don't think that was a huge issue....JMO..

I just can't see the Texans staff and Kubiak letting him run sloppy routes. That's like the first thing you work on. I'm not saying he was a great route runner, but I don't think that bad route running is what kept him from being successful.


Here is a link to targets and receptions: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...false/count/41

Most of the Texans receivers are on the second page. OD is on the first page I think .

OD: 54 Receptions, 84 Targets = 64%
AF: 53, 71 = 74%
JJ: 31, 64 = 48%
KW: 39, 59 = 66%
AJ: 33, 51 = 64%
JD: 28, 39 = 71%
JC: 18, 24 = 75%
BT: 13, 19 = 68%

Yeah, see, I attribute a large part of that difference in target to catch to his route running. Sure, his hands weren't great and that contributes but all those balls at his feet or sailing over his head... those look like poor routes to me.

I'm sure the coaches continually got onto him about it but he never got it.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point, though.

[SW H-TOWN]

Originally Posted by GP

$3.5 million per year????

LMAO!

Wow. LOL. I love it when people think they can make three-day leftover scraps taste like gourmet food. Pretty dumb move, Ravens.

And that he signed with the team how baited him into coughing up the football in the playoff game just makes it all the more awesome.

On an unrelated note Ozzie Newsome just got caught smoking crack with Marion Barry in a hotel room...What was Ozzie thinking, 3.5m per year. Make him pee in a cup please.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Bad route runner? I can't really say that. All I know is that he got open quite a bit. Didn't always catch the ball or get a catchable ball, but he got open.

I agree. You've got a QB that openly admits to underthrowing his receivers, but we want to believe Jacoby is a bad route runner.

I'm anxious to see what he does with a big arm QB.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I agree. You've got a QB that openly admits to underthrowing his receivers, but we want to believe Jacoby is a bad route runner.

I'm anxious to see what he does with a big arm QB.

Wtf? Schaub has admitted to preferring to under throw the deep passes of (30+ yards), not every freaking throw. The majority of JJs targets were under 20 yards, and Those are mostly timing routes. You have to be willfully ignorant or Jacobys mom to think Schaub is under throwing the short routes.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Wtf? Schaub has admitted to preferring to under throw the deep passes of (30+ yards), not every freaking throw. The majority of JJs targets were under 20 yards, and Those are mostly timing routes. You have to be willfully ignorant or Jacobys mom to think Schaub is under throwing the short routes.

All the same, there ain't nothing wrong with Jacoby's route running.