Stephen Hill

[Wolf6151]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

Lengthy, but fantastic 3-part read by Matt Waldman - well worth the effort:

WRs Stephen Hill and Marvin Jones: Managing Physical Play (Short)

Georgia Tech wide receiver Stephen Hill is tall, fast, and has a frame that will likely support another 10-15 pounds of muscle without sacrificing his 4.36-40 speed. Cal wide receiver Marvin Jones is a shade under 6’2″ and 200 pounds and he appears to have the type of physique that wouldn’t add weight if he injected liquified Crisco with an IV. Yet if I were building a team from scratch and you asked me which receiver I’d rather have catching passes from my quarterback, at this moment I’d take Jones despite the fact Hill’s physical skills are uncommon...

WRs Stephen Hill and Marvin Jones: Going Deep

This week I have been spotlighting the craft of playing receiver and using plays from the careers of Georgia Tech’s Stephen Hill and Cal’s Marvin Jones as examples. Yesterday, I profiled two crossing routes that couldn’t have been run more different from each other. Today, I’m going deep and examining a vertical play from both receivers...

Vertical Goodness: Stephen Hill

I’ve been critical of the Georgia Tech receiver all week, but I’ve also been saying that the star of the Combine is more than just a gold medal winner 2012′s Underwear Olympics at Lucas Oil Stadium. Hill is a legit prospect with NFL starter upside. Although I’ve spent several pages analyzing what Hill doesn’t do, one play can encompass most of his strengths. On the surface, one good play to several not so good ones might seem heavily weighted to the negative. However, there are certain talents that don’t require lengthy analysis to value...

I was originally all over the Stephen Hill at #26 pick but articles like these make me question that decision as I learn more about Hill's lack of route running skills. We don't need another Jacoby Jones. Hill has the measurables to be a future #1 WR but our staff will have to teach him route running skills, something they've been unable to do with Jacoby in the previous 4 yrs.. I like Marvin Jones alot and he already knows how to run routes. The same can be said for AJ Jenkins.

[Rey]

I don't see a whole lot wrong with Jacoby's route running...

He's just not a very good receiver overall...

I think he'd make a good WR3 or 4, but he is not consistent enough and doesn't have good enough hands to be a WR2...

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

Lengthy, but fantastic 3-part read by Matt Waldman - well worth the effort:

WRs Stephen Hill and Marvin Jones: Managing Physical Play (Short)

Georgia Tech wide receiver Stephen Hill is tall, fast, and has a frame that will likely support another 10-15 pounds of muscle without sacrificing his 4.36-40 speed. Cal wide receiver Marvin Jones is a shade under 6’2″ and 200 pounds and he appears to have the type of physique that wouldn’t add weight if he injected liquified Crisco with an IV. Yet if I were building a team from scratch and you asked me which receiver I’d rather have catching passes from my quarterback, at this moment I’d take Jones despite the fact Hill’s physical skills are uncommon...

"Hill's route lacks a sharp angle from his break. As you can see he's beginning his turn at the three and giving his opponent the chance to turn is hips early to anticipate the path from the break. The orange line is where Hill should have begun his break."

This is the author "assuming" that Hill was supposed to run a deep in.

It certainly looks to me like he was running short post, going up about 7 yards deep then angling toward the post.

...

Dale Moss caught one running this route in the East-West Shriner game (his only catch, but it wasn't his fault; he wasn't targeted but twice.)

As a complement to that route, Moss also ran a post-corner route.
This one looks like a short post at the beginning, but as the receiver makes his angle cut to the post at seven yards (thereabout), he puts on a double move and cuts back toward the corner. (The QB failed Moss on this play as he put the ball way too long). Moss beat Josh Norman, a CB that might go in round 3-4.

I've been watching Randle since yesterday, and I saw him ran the same post-corner route against Miss. St. for a TD.
Randle wasn't as smooth/sharp in and out of the break as Moss, but the CB was caught peeking into the backfield. (He didn't "really" stick his inside foot into the ground.)

Come to think of it, I found the highlight here:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312580344

[76Texan]

Instead of creating a new thread on Randle, I thought I would just add my observation in this one.

In week 3 vs Miss. St. there was an incompletion in which Randle made a cut to the outside around the 15-16 yard mark. The ball was thrown at 27 yards just outside the number. Clearly, there was a mis-communication; I don't know whose fault that was, the QB or the WR.

In week 4 vs. W. Virginia (I'm still watching this game), Randle made a cut to the outside between 6 and 7 yards. This is similar to a play where Hill was criticized for rounding out his outside route. I've said that it is not abosultely necessary for a receiver to make the cut at 5 yards on a quick out; I've seen playbooks that call for the cut at 6 and even 7 yards. Whoever it was that complaint Hill was a poor route runner needs to mark Randle as one just the same.

Later on, Randle dropped an easy pass in the end zone.
Randle made the cut to the inside somewhere between 7 and 10 yards (TV angle wasn't all that good).
The safety stepped up such that Randle was wide open (the CB was concentrating on the outside).
It's unclear whether Randle let the ball too close into his body or what, but the analyst proclaimed that the ball was right on the money.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Instead of creating a new thread on Randle, I thought I would just add my observation in this one.

In week 3 vs Miss. St. there was an incompletion in which Randle made a cut to the outside around the 15-16 yard mark. The ball was thrown at 27 yards just outside the number. Clearly, there was a mis-communication; I don't know whose fault that was, the QB or the WR.

In week 4 vs. W. Virginia (I'm still watching this game), Randle made a cut to the outside between 6 and 7 yards. This is similar to a play where Hill was criticized for rounding out his outside route. I've said that it is not abosultely necessary for a receiver to make the cut at 5 yards on a quick out; I've seen playbooks that call for the cut at 6 and even 7 yards. Whoever it was that complaint Hill was a poor route runner needs to mark Randle as one just the same.

Later on, Randle dropped an easy pass in the end zone.
Randle made the cut to the inside somewhere between 7 and 10 yards (TV angle wasn't all that good).
The safety stepped up such that Randle was wide open (the CB was concentrating on the outside).
It's unclear whether Randle let the ball too close into his body or what, but the analyst proclaimed that the ball was right on the money.

These type of comments, and others I've read, are the reason why I'm not sold on any of the WR's at #26, whether it be Hill, Wright, Randle, Jeffreys, or anyone else. I'm just not sold on any of them. They all have questions about their game that could make them a "boom or bust" type player. That's why I'm hoping the Texans go after an OLB in the 1st, like McClellen, or another position, instead of WR. Then pick up a WR in the 2nd or 3rd, like Marvin Jones or Toon, which are a better value IMO.

[Maddict5]

il be honest- hill is my least favourite of the potential wrs there at 26. if we draft him i wont be giving out & criticising (cos i think ppl who do are stupid) but i wont be very excited. would much rather randle or wright.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

il be honest- hill is my least favourite of the potential wrs there at 26. if we draft him i wont be giving out & criticising (cos i think ppl who do are stupid) but i wont be very excited. would much rather randle or wright.

I'm pretty much opposite. I don't think Randle and Wright have 1st round talent (especially Wright). Hill has the talent and potential, but may not make much of a contribution this year while he learns the system. I would rather take a WR in the 2nd, and see the Texans develop him. There are some O-linemen that should be available at #26 that could compete on the right side.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

I'm pretty much opposite. I don't think Randle and Wright have 1st round talent (especially Wright). Hill has the talent and potential, but may not make much of a contribution this year while he learns the system. I would rather take a WR in the 2nd, and see the Texans develop him. There are some O-linemen that should be available at #26 that could compete on the right side.

I agree with everything here except for taking an O-lineman at 26.
It may be best for the Texans to trade out of the first; there seems to be a good bit of values in the next two rounds.

[drs23]

Solid reasons not to take Hill or Randal @26.

What about Quick if he falls to us in the 2nd?

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by drs23

Solid reasons not to take Hill or Randal @26.

What about Quick if he falls to us in the 2nd?

Small school guy, never played against good competition.

Hype is based on measurables not production.

You can make a case not to take nearly any player if you are looking for it.

Quick might be a slightly more gifted Jacoby Jones.....

[drs23]

Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan

Small school guy, never played against good competition.

Hype is based on measurables not production.

You can make a case not to take nearly any player if you are looking for it.

Quick might be a slightly more gifted Jacoby Jones.....

Really? I've heard the knock on Jacoby, small hands and being a bone head and that's not what I'm hearing about Quick like big hands and having football IQ. Elway says

"The biggest thing is the people they are seeing day to day, game to game, are a lot better," said Broncos' executive vice president of football operations John Elway, a Hall of Fame quarterback who threw more than a few passes toward rookie receivers in his day.
"They're going to see a lot more bump coverage, guys right up on them, and it's hard for us to even find film of guys against bump."
Because if you're a top-tier wide receiver in college, guys like Blackmon or Notre Dame's Michael Floyd or Baylor's Kendall Wright, few defenses will have cornerbacks who have any sort of chance to match-up in press, man-to-man coverage.

Rest of the story here.

We all know what John Elway's saying is true so sometimes you just roll the bones. I'll be watching to see if he drops to the third. I don't think he will.I'm going to keep an eye on him. I think we might be surprised.

[kiwitexansfan]

Originally Posted by drs23

Really? I've heard the knock on Jacoby, small hands and being a bone head and that's not what I'm hearing about Quick like big hands and having football IQ. .

Hence the more gifted part. You roll the dice with small school guys, even more so than guys from elite schools.

My major point I guess was that you can pick holes in any pick if you want. Just got to trust your scouting.

[mussop]

Hills positives are a fit though.

He is lightning fast.
He is big.
He blocks as well or better than any WR in this draft.

That might be enough for a coach like Kubiak to think he's worth the #26 pick. His speed would stop teams from rotating over to AJ's side of the field. If not, with his size and speed he should win a fair amount of one on ones. His blocking ability would be more than enough to keep him on the field. Look at Walters, he is out there mostly because of his blocking ability. It's not like he is a great route runner or deep threat. Hill would be like having a lot faster Walters.

[Section516]

Past week, Hills been really growing on me.

6-4/6-5 H/W/S guys with a rumored high work ethic and character don't grow on trees..

have to take the triple option attack into affect when scouting him..

High ceiling, can develop.

[Blake]

The question is, do you want to take a guy based on potential, or a guy who has shown you what they can do?

Ive seen Wright clown DB's and Randall flying around the field snatching balls out of the air.

Ive seen Hill run a straight line very fast.

[WolverineFan]

Originally Posted by Blake

The question is, do you want to take a guy based on potential, or a guy who has shown you what they can do?

Ive seen Wright clown DB's and Randall flying around the field snatching balls out of the air.

Ive seen Hill run a straight line very fast.

Exactly. Just because you're a good athlete doesn't mean you're a good football player. All Hill is at this stage is potential and we need someone who can come in and immediately upgrade the WR position.

[Section516]

Originally Posted by Blake

The question is, do you want to take a guy based on potential, or a guy who has shown you what they can do?

Ive seen Wright clown DB's and Randall flying around the field snatching balls out of the air.

Ive seen Hill run a straight line very fast.

I'm concerned Wright is more RGIII than KW, also concerned with his size.

Won't get mad at Randall.

Was down on Hill, now more of, I can go either way..But I'd really like to time travel five years and look back on his career.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by WolverineFan

All Hill is at this stage is potential and we need someone who can come in and immediately upgrade the WR position.

There might not be a WR in this draft that fits that bill. None of these WRs were in pro offenses. None of them. From Blackmon to Floyd to Wright to Hill, all will have to learn how to play in the NFL. Yes, Kendall Wright caught a lot more passes in college than did Stephen Hill. That means squat when it comes to being ready for the NFL.

Look at the guys who had success as rookies last year: Green, Jones, and Torrey Smith. None were polished players. They made it happen because they were superior athletes. So who are the guys that are the most likely to "immediately upgrade" at WR? Guys who caught a lot of passes at the college level in college offenses? Or guys who can make plays based upon athletic ability?

[Rey]

If I had to take my pick I'd target Alshon I'm the second round. There are traits I like in each of these second tier receivers.

I think Alshon is going to give the most bang for the buck though. And if I had to choose a wr in the first it'd be hill I think. He has top 5 wr measureables.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Rey

I think Alshon is going to give the most bang for the buck though.

Unless he popped positive on his whiz test, I'd be surprised to see Jeffery at #58. But you're right, he would be tremendous value there. Jeffery is a guy that you can throw up a jump ball to, and have him make a play. There are only a handful of guys like that in this draft.