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Old 04-15-2012   #21
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

I would just consider it time to kiss the game I have loved for almost 60 years goodbye!! Got better things to do with my money than sit through a boring football game every damn week just because the powers that be want to tweek the hell out of a game that does NOT need tweeking! They've messed it up enough as it is! LEAVE it to hell alone!!! JMO! This crap makes me depressed!
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Old 04-15-2012   #22
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

take off the pads and helmets and call it rugby.
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Old 04-15-2012   #23
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

What's so sacred about the kicking of the ball?

Prior to the forward pass, I suppose there was a lot of emphasis placed upon kicking the ball. I am sure it was probably the highlight of the game that day. Everybody ooh'd and ahh'd over how Dumphry "Iron Foot" McAllahan could kick the football and win games.

Once the forward pass entered the game's history, there has been a decline in the need or the advent of the kicking aspect. In fact, it's become perhaps the most hated part of the game, IMO. None of you can sit there and say you're happy when your kicker blows the game by shanking a kick. Why does THAT guy decide the game? No, if your offense cannot get a TD--no matter what time is left and no matter the field position--then you deserve to lose.

Instead, you've got little soccer dudes deciding the outcome for you. I'm just of the belief that you shouldn't eek out a win by kicking the ball. 90% of the game involves everything BUT the kicking aspect, but the kick can win or lose the game.

Kickoff returns? How many actually go for TDs every year? I bet we could find stats that say "Not very many." The risk involved, however, is substantial. Injuries are prevalent even without the deadly "wedge" blocking that was done away with recently. How is this a good idea: Hey, let's start at opposite ends of the field and run as fast as we can toward one another, colliding at the midway point in one giant demolition derby of human bodies! This is not calling for the wussification of football, either, this is saying "Let's make the game about the run, the pass, and the defense of those two things. Let's make it about the strategy and skill components and not about the randomness of kickoff returns and field goals."

In summary: Make it about the most consistently GOOD parts of football.

Good citizens of Texans Talk, I urge you to weigh my words with great consideration and help us to rid ourselves of the albatross that has hung upon our necks for so very long. It is time to let kickers kick where they should kick: A soccer pitch.
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Old 04-15-2012   #24
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

More information on what was going on concerning rules and rule changes during the owners' meeting.


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The Competition Committee studies all aspects of the game and recommends rules and policy changes to NFL clubs. It gathers every year prior to the NFL owners meeting in March. And while the committee’s work last month did lead to rules changes, Mara, the Giants’ President and Chief Executive Officer, was just as eager to talk about a rule implemented last year that made the game significantly safer for players.

In 2011, the committee submitted a proposal to move kickoffs from the 30 to the 35-yard line and restrict the running start coverage units get to five yards behind the kicker (they could previously line up much further back and build up momentum before pursuing the returner). The proposals were passed by the full ownership, 26-6.

Although the number of kickoffs rose slightly last year – to 2,572 from 2,539 in 2010 – returns fell to 1,375 from 2,033. In 2010, 80.1 percent of kickoffs were returned. Last year, the percentage of kickoffs returns was 53.5 percent, the lowest in history. The average yards per kickoff return was 23.8, the highest in history (the previous high was 23.7 in 1962).

Touchbacks rose to 1,120 (43.6 percent) in 2011 from 416 (16.4 percent) the year before. But to Mara, another statistic was far more important than those numbers.

“One thing we did determine is that by moving the kickoff to the 35 yard-line it reduced the number of returns, but reduced the number of concussions by 40 percent,” Mara said. “So I don’t think you’ll see that rule change. The kickoff is by far the most dangerous play that we have in our game. The hits are pretty violent and they come from all different directions. There are guys running full speed, that’s the problem. That’s why we put the rule in. It shortens the field a little bit and it cuts down the number of returns.”

Some coaches – particularly those who employ the league’s best return specialists – as well as several returners voiced their displeasure after the spot of the kickoffs was moved up. They are not as vocal now.

“There was no support for moving the kickoff back to the 30 yard-line,” Mara said. “I think everybody was convinced by the statistics. The interesting thing was that, yes, we moved the kickoff to the 35 and, yes, that caused far fewer returns and poorer field position for the offense, but scoring was not affected (an average of 44.36 points were scored per game, virtually the same as the 2010 average of 44.07). The game we have right now is as wide open a game as we’ve ever had. The fact that field position went backward had no effect on scoring. So there really is no sentiment for moving it back to the 30.”

Mara can envision a day when a far more radical change is made and NFL games are played without kickoffs.

“We had a lot of discussions about whether we should eliminate it and if we did what we could do in its place,” he said. “There’s no consensus on it right now, but I could see the day in the future where that play could be taken out of the game.

“You see it evolving toward that. Nobody would go that far now, but we talk about different blocks that we can outlaw. The problem is that the concussions come from everywhere, from the wedge, from the crossing blocks where a guy goes from one side of the field to another, from a full speed collision between a return guy and a tackler. So there’s no one thing that you can do. It’s something that we’ll continue to watch as closely as possible.”

Mara is joined on the committee by Atlanta Falcons President Rich McKay, the chairman; Green Bay Packers President Mark Murphy; Dallas Cowboys Executive Vice President Stephen Jones; general managers Rick Smith of Houston and Ozzie Newsome of Baltimore; and head coaches Marvin Lewis of Cincinnati, Jeff Fisher of St. Louis and Ken Whisenhunt of Arizona.

The group spent “quite a bit” of time discussing concussions and what can be done to decrease the frequency that players suffer them.

“It’s obviously a big issue for us right now and whatever we can do to try to reduce them, it’s something we have to look at,” Mara said. “I think we looked at just about every play where there was a concussion during the season and spent a lot of time talking about whether to make more rule changes on that. The one change we did make was the blind side block. Right now, in order for it be a foul, before hitting a guy in the head the blocker has to be moving toward the goal line. We changed that to say he can be parallel, because in many cases that’s still going to be a block that the other player cannot see. You can still block him. You just can’t hit him in the head.

“We’ve enacted a lot of rules to try to minimize the number of helmet-to-helmet hits. You see a lot of them occur with the head hitting the ground or the head hitting another player’s knee. It ends up being unavoidable. But with the testing we have in place right now we’re making progress. We have gotten to the point now where it’s in the hands of the medical professionals. A player can’t come back to play until he’s cleared the test administered by an independent physician. I think we’re on the right track, but we have to continue.”

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has made it his mission to improve player safety. He didn’t attend the competition committee meetings, but he asks detailed and pointed questions following the deliberations.

“We usually meet with him right after our meetings to go over all of the points and all of our recommendations and he will question us in detail, particularly when it involves player safety,” Mara said. “He can be very helpful in convincing certain clubs that are not in favor of a proposal. That’s been his primary concern, player safety. It’s obvious, by imposing the fines that he has, and in certain cases, suspensions, he has shown that he‘s concerned about that and wants to do everything he can to make it safer.”

The primary safety rule discussed at last month’s competition committee meeting involved the quarterbacks. A rule proposed by the Pittsburgh Steelers would have made the horse-collar tackle illegal on the quarterback in the pocket. Such tackles are illegal elsewhere on the field. But the proposal did not receive the support of the committee and only five owners voted for it (24 votes are needed for passage).

“I think the reason the horse collar rule is in effect is it’s such a dangerous play, particularly when a defender grabs the back of a jersey right at the neck area and then ends up falling into the legs of the offensive player,” Mara said. “That’s not really what happens when the quarterback is in the pocket. We just felt it did not create the same amount of risk. I think it was very important. It’s a natural thing for defensive lineman to reach out and grab the quarterback, but you don’t see them fall into the back of the legs like you see in the open field.”

Another Pittsburgh proposal did receive the backing of the committee and was passed overwhelmingly by the owners: to use the new overtime rules adopted last year for the postseason for all regular season games, beginning in 2012. The new rule states that an overtime game cannot end on a field goal on the first possession. The opposing team must get one offensive series. If it kicks a field goal to tie the game, the overtime will continue. Should the team fail to, it will lose and if it scores a touchdown, it will win.

“We just thought that it should be consistent,” Mara said of adopting the postseason overtime rules in the regular season. “The coaches, I think, felt strongly about that, too, saying, ‘I don’t want to have one set of rules for regular season and another set of rules that all of a sudden you’re using for the first time in the postseason.’”

One proposal that was rejected by both the committee and the owners would have given authority to determine replay reviews to the replay official in the booth, removing that responsibility from the referee on the field.

“One of the teams had submitted a proposal for having all of our replay reviews conducted upstairs, which is the system that we had when replay first went into effect,” Mara said. “We found at that time it really didn’t work very well. I think primarily because the people we had doing the reviews upstairs were not as capable as the on-field referee. The referees that we spoke to were dead set against the proposal. To their credit, they want to be the ones that make that call. And I think there is a certain value to having the guy on the field do it. Plus, these are our most highly trained individuals. So why not leave it in their hands? And their accuracy rate is pretty good and it’s gotten a little bit better each year. So there was very little support for making that change.”

But for the second year in a row, the owners did vote to make a significant modification to replay. For the first time last season, all scoring replays were reviewed. Beginning in 2012, all turnovers will be looked at by the replay official. Mara and his fellow committee members disagree that the additional replays will slow down the game.

“We felt that this would not add any time to the game and might even speed up the game a little bit,” Mara said. “After almost every turnover there’s a commercial break. And what happens now is the coach will often wait until the end of the commercial break and then he drops the flag and then the review takes place. If we have an automatic review it will take place during the commercial break. So, hopefully, it will not slow things down. It provides a little bit more flexibility for coaches, too. They don’t have to challenge scoring plays and turnovers anymore.”

For the first time, however, fans in the stands will be able to see the same video feed the referee is studying when he is under the hood. But if the “under the hood” feed is utilized live during the review, it cannot be replayed after the referee announces his decision.

Some other proposed rules changes were tabled until the next owners meeting in May. They include expanding training camp rosters from 80 to 90 players; allowing an exemption to the 53-man roster for one player with a concussion; and a one-player exception to the injured reserve rule. It would allow one player injured before the second week of the season to return to practice after six weeks and to game action after eight weeks, rather than miss the entire season – as all players placed on IR must do under the current rules.

“We had a lot of discussions on all of those issues,” Mara said. “The committee supported all of those proposals, I think, 9-0. But there needs to be some discussion with the (players) union about that and some more discussion with the rest of the membership. I think that those proposals will eventually pass, but it’s not a slam dunk at this point. There are some people who are not in favor of this.”

Mara, however, believes all three proposals make sense.

“I like the idea of the (expanded) roster entering training camp given the number of injuries you deal with very early on,” he said. “I think it makes sense. It’s what we had last year. I thought it worked out pretty well. I just think that to have a more effective training camp and to try to save a little bit on the wear-and-tear of the guys who are healthy, it makes sense to have 90. The other thing that used to happen was it used to be 80, but you didn’t have to count your draft picks until they were signed. So you would have somebody on your roster the entire offseason, go through the program, go through the OTAs and right before you have training camp you sign a draft pick and then you cut the guy. Now we’re saying that the 90 would include your draft picks whether they’re signed or not. We should know that going in. Really, traditionally if you look back we’ve been around 84, 85 when you had the exemptions with NFL Europe. So I don’t think it’s that much of a change. I think we’ll end up at 90 or somewhere close to 90.

“With the concussion exception, I think it’s a positive step also. There’s some concern that it could lead to some abuse, but I disagree with that. It’s only one player at a time. In this day and age, you’re not going to want to falsely label someone that’s had a concussion. The player’s not going to want to be falsely labeled as having had a concussion. So I don’t see how it can be abused.”

Twenty years ago, players could come off IR after four weeks. But the system was changed, because too many teams were abusing the system by stashing players who weren’t really hurt on injured reserve. But some have come to view the current system as too restrictive.

“The IR exception, I think, makes a lot of sense,” Mara said. “There was some abuse of that when that used to occur, so we thought to keep that as narrow as possible. One guy for the entire season - once you use it you can’t use it again. And he has to be out at least six weeks. I think it makes sense. But you’re not going to use that for your backup fullback. You’re going to use that for one of your marquee players that you think has a chance to come back.

“The player I always think about is Tom Brady getting hurt a few years ago and there wasn’t the possibility that he could come back for the playoffs. It’s something that you would only use for a marquee player and you can only use it once. So I don’t see it as much of a risk. There are some people that really believe strongly in the purity of the 53-man roster. They don’t want to see any exceptions to that. I just think that in this day in age, given the number of injuries we’re dealing with, a little flexibility is not a bad thing, particularly with one of the marquee players. So I think that will eventually pass.”
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Old 04-15-2012   #25
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

Continued............


Quote:
Mara is one of the NFL’s most influential owners. He is the chairman of the NFL Management Council Executive Committee and he played a significant role in the negotiations that ended the lockout last year. And he is, of course, the chief executive officer of the Giants organization. But Mara considers his work on the Competition Committee as important as anything he does, because it improves the game for everyone in the league.

“When you’re sitting there watching a few hours of potentially every offensive holding penalty that we call during the year it can get a little tiresome,” Mara said. “But you feel like you have an impact on the game, My concern has been, like a lot of other people, trying to make it a safer game, so you feel like your time is well-spent. I would always rather err on the side of player safety, because my experience in this league is no matter what rule you implement, no matter how many complaints there are from coaches and players, eventually they adapt to it. There was a huge outcry when we started putting in a rule protecting defenseless receivers - that we were making it impossible for defensive backs to play the game. While we may have made it a little more difficult, we certainly didn’t make it impossible and we believe that we have made it a little bit safer for defenseless players and we’re going to continue to try to do that.

“We have a very exciting game, scoring is up, so many games go down to the wire, so much unpredictability in the game, everybody has a chance to win every year. We really think we’re in a good place. Our challenge going forward is how do we make it safer?”
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Old 04-16-2012   #26
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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Originally Posted by OzzO View Post
take off the pads and helmets and call it rugby.
Ummm, rugby has kick offs.

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Old 04-16-2012   #27
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

We have this game called scrag down here in NZ. Not a sport officially but a great game for guys to beat the bijingoes out of each other.

In that game to restart after scores, the ball is placed at the halfway, the two teams line up on the baselines, and then at the whistle both teams run to the centre to secure posession, hella fun, but not a way to reduce injuries.
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Old 04-16-2012   #28
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

I'm on the "that ain't FOOTball" side of this argument.

I don't snow ski but aren't an disproportional amount of people injured, maimed and/or killed each year blazing down the slopes? I'm sure there are more and probably better analogies but it's early and my Kahlua and coffee haven't kicked in yet.

This would certainly be the biggest step in the pussification of the greatest game on earth.

Sure would free up Sunday afternoons to ride my ultra safe motorsickle though I recon.
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Old 04-16-2012   #29
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Holy cow! This was an idea I have had for quite sometime now!!!!Whoo hoo!!!

Eliminate the kicker altogether. No extra points, no kickoffs. Just a punter.

Every team has to go for 2 after every TD. Would you rather watch a guy kick a gimmee FG from about 13 yards out, or watch the offense and opposing defense line up for a goal line stand after every TD??? Think about it.

Wouldn't golf be fun to watch if every putt was from 1 foot away from the hole? No, it wouldn't be. And extra point attempts are the most LAME score in all of sports. LAME-O. Get rid of them.

Which means get rid of the kicker altogether. Every possession to start a game, or start the second half, or after a score will be at the 20. Imagine being able to just start watching football instead of waiting for somebody to limp off the field after getting smacked around in a kickoff return.

I have this idea and am glad it might happen. Kicking gimmee extra points is pointless. A waste of time. Games being decided by a last-second field goal, by a guy who doesn't even get his jersey dirty is awful. Get that guy out of there! He can go play arena league or soccer.

It doesn't tarnish the game to end kickoffs, extra points, and kickoff returns. It actually puts it back into the hands of the REAL football players. End of story. I keep the punter, though, because it involves the cat-and-mouse game of field position all game long...not just after a score like a kickoff does.
Yeah well you should have patented, copywrited and said it was yours before I did. All the royalties are mine I tell you, MINE! Now I know where my money went!

Seriously, let's play football and leave the kicking to soccer.
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Old 04-16-2012   #30
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
We have this game called scrag down here in NZ. Not a sport officially but a great game for guys to beat the bijingoes out of each other.

In that game to restart after scores, the ball is placed at the halfway, the two teams line up on the baselines, and then at the whistle both teams run to the centre to secure posession, hella fun, but not a way to reduce injuries.
reminds me of meals when I was a kid. Mom set the chicken on the table & me & my three brothers would dive in. Some injuries but no IR in those days.
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Old 04-16-2012   #31
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

The excitement on kickoffs isn't just about whether it gets returned for a TD or not. Of course there aren't that many TD returns. But it's just as exciting busting a return to the 40, 50 or into opponents territory to start a drive. Starting every drive at the 20 is boring. See last seasons billion touchbacks.

And I think someone already mentioned it, but the big comebacks would be over. If you're down by 2 scores late, there would be no more scoring and then going for the onsides kick to make the miracle comeback. That's over.

With the automatic PAT, I think it should be a little less automatic. Go back to drop kicking on PATs.

The trying to prevent injury thing is getting ridiculous. Not that I don't care about people getting injured or think they shouldn't try to do everything they can to keep players safe, it's just that this is the way the sport is. Boxing, MMA, rugby, soccer (banging a ball off you noggin) and even baseball to an extent, can result in some serious injuries. If you don't want to take that risk, get a real job.

Kicking is a part of football. Take it away and it's not football any more.
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Old 04-16-2012   #32
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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The day they remove kicks is the day I stop watching as much football.

Terrible idea.
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I would just consider it time to kiss the game I have loved for almost 60 years goodbye!! Got better things to do with my money than sit through a boring football game every damn week just because the powers that be want to tweek the hell out of a game that does NOT need tweeking! They've messed it up enough as it is! LEAVE it to hell alone!!! JMO! This crap makes me depressed!
Count me in on the above mentalities.

There will be a proverbial 'straw that breaks the camel's back' with the on-going (d)evolution of the NFL.

Removing kickoffs might very well be my straw.

I lived without football when the Oilers left, and the sky did not fall. Matter-of-fact, I should probably be doing more productive stuff with my time on some of those beautiful autumn days instead of sitting in front of a boob tube...
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Old 04-16-2012   #33
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

Only thing I would change is eliminating the extra point and making them go for 2 every time. 3 point FGs would still be allowed. Kickoffs also stay or another league will take them over. If you do things that take part of the excitement out of the game (weaken your product), another company will do it right, especially since you already showed them how.
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Old 04-16-2012   #34
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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Yes, yes it does. One of, if not the most, exciting plays in all of football is a KO return for a TD. Not to mention no KO means no chance of a comeback via an onside kick. I can see your point about XPs but the rest, not seeing it.
The no-onside-kick thing is a total deal breaker for me. If you're two scores down with 2-3 minutes to go, you have no shot at coming back unless you can onside kick it after you score.

Also, during a return there's the possibility of getting the ball back via fumble at any point in the game.

No. Leave the kickoffs in the game.

If you don't want kicking to be part of your sport and too many collisions frighten you, go watch golf.
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Old 04-16-2012   #35
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

This explains why draft picks were hardly ever signed before preseason started...

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The other thing that used to happen was it used to be 80, but you didn’t have to count your draft picks until they were signed. So you would have somebody on your roster the entire off-season, go through the program, go through the OTAs and right before you have training camp you sign a draft pick and then you cut the guy. Now we’re saying that the 90 would include your draft picks whether they’re signed or not. We should know that going in.
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Old 04-16-2012   #36
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
Only thing I would change is eliminating the extra point and making them go for 2 every time. 3 point FGs would still be allowed.
I think that would hurt the game. I believe that we'd see a decrease in close games at the end of regulation. If a team scores 3 TD's and makes all their two point conversions while the other team scores three and misses all their, the other team has gained a pretty significant advantage based on a two point conversion.
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Old 04-16-2012   #37
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

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I think that would hurt the game. I believe that we'd see a decrease in close games at the end of regulation. If a team scores 3 TD's and makes all their two point conversions while the other team scores three and misses all their, the other team has gained a pretty significant advantage based on a two point conversion.
They could vary it by distance. 1 point for a conversion from the 2 yard line, 2 points from the 8 yard line, and 3 points from the 15 yard line. The scoring team chooses which line to use. Might make things more interesting as teams would have more chances to catch up.
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Old 04-16-2012   #38
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

This is what the older NFL generations sticking their hands out is getting us. They accepted the call to play when the call beckoned. Now it's woe is me. Now the NFL is making every move to eliminate heavy hits and any contact I suppose.

Bunk.

Taking away the onside kicks and returns is ridiculous. Moronic. What of punting? You just gonna have the QB heave the ball downfield and wherever it lands is where the next possession starts?
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Old 04-16-2012   #39
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

I guess next we should take out quarterback sneaks. That's more than enough time for an "experiment" that's been around since 1912. Last year, Schaub, Freeman and Brady all suffered injuries during that play call. Time to give it a funeral so we can go on to the next dangerous play.
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Old 04-17-2012   #40
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Default Re: Nfl football without kickoffs?

If this ever even comes close to happening, I'll stop watching for good.

Pathetic.
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